Upper Control Arms
12-04-14, 01:14 PM
#1
Front Upper Control Arms
I am going to do mine soon as they are feeling their age a little. Not looking to spend $483 each on OEM. I would prefer this but at 400% - 500% more it's not worth it. Thinking about either Beck / Arnley or Moog. Anyone else replace these arms with aftermarket units?
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 12-04-14 at 05:40 PM.
12-04-14, 04:47 PM
#2
I believe the "R Series" is Moog's "value" line and not their "problem solver" line that tends to be more premium. In many cases, better than OEM.
If it was Moog's "problem solver" line I would go with that, but he R line has a question mark.
Of those choices shown, I would probably go Mevotech. they seem to have a pretty good reputation and usually the "premium" line of a part company is what you want to get. My experience is never get a suspension part that's marketed as a "value" line. Still, I have no first hand experience so you should probably do some research on them.
I definitely would skip ones from the dealership, just way too much money.
If it was Moog's "problem solver" line I would go with that, but he R line has a question mark.
Of those choices shown, I would probably go Mevotech. they seem to have a pretty good reputation and usually the "premium" line of a part company is what you want to get. My experience is never get a suspension part that's marketed as a "value" line. Still, I have no first hand experience so you should probably do some research on them.
I definitely would skip ones from the dealership, just way too much money.
Last edited by BradTank; 12-04-14 at 04:53 PM.
12-04-14, 05:45 PM
#3
Both the Moog and Mevotech are with the sport package. Not that this is a bad thing. I believe it just means the bushing are a little more firm. The UL did not come with this. Probably should have. I can't imagine there is any difference between the parts other then that.
Edit:
Looks like I will be staying away from the Moog. You are right about the R series.
Edit:
Looks like I will be staying away from the Moog. You are right about the R series.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 12-04-14 at 05:57 PM.
12-04-14, 07:36 PM
#5
This
With your budget you can either buy the nicest bushings you can find and re-bush your control arms or replace them with something cheap and not as good. I havent looked to see what availability is like on UCA bushings but if mine were wearing out I wouldn't try to replace the whole control arm with aftermarket if the metal of it is still good.
With your budget you can either buy the nicest bushings you can find and re-bush your control arms or replace them with something cheap and not as good. I havent looked to see what availability is like on UCA bushings but if mine were wearing out I wouldn't try to replace the whole control arm with aftermarket if the metal of it is still good.
12-04-14, 09:56 PM
#6
It's not worth doing the bushings alone because of the upper ball joint. I want this replaced as well. Unlike the lower, it's not separate. I am about 99% sure the parts are interchangeable without any issues. I'm going to confirm this before I buy.
Also, oem bushings are not available and I don't want polyurethane aftermarket. I'm leaning towards the Beck Arnley's because of the company reputation. The price difference is not an issue. $200 vs $960 is a good deal. Don't know if I trust the Mevotech company.
It's interesting, from what I understand the sport package difference included shocks, coils, upper and lower arms and rear sway bar. This whole setup can be swapped to a UL.
Also, oem bushings are not available and I don't want polyurethane aftermarket. I'm leaning towards the Beck Arnley's because of the company reputation. The price difference is not an issue. $200 vs $960 is a good deal. Don't know if I trust the Mevotech company.
It's interesting, from what I understand the sport package difference included shocks, coils, upper and lower arms and rear sway bar. This whole setup can be swapped to a UL.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 12-04-14 at 10:24 PM.
12-04-14, 09:58 PM
#7
What signs have you noticed that indicate your UCA are needing to be replaced?
I'm pretty sure the only way to possibly get bushings only is to press out old ones from junked UCAs.
The guy I get my lexus OEM parts from quoted me around 300 each. Still pretty expensive. I'd lean toward Beck/Arnley personally if you're set against OEM. For me, it;d be more of a "take it to a mechanic" job, so I'd have to factor in labor as well.
I'm pretty sure the only way to possibly get bushings only is to press out old ones from junked UCAs.
The guy I get my lexus OEM parts from quoted me around 300 each. Still pretty expensive. I'd lean toward Beck/Arnley personally if you're set against OEM. For me, it;d be more of a "take it to a mechanic" job, so I'd have to factor in labor as well.
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12-05-14, 06:37 AM
#8
Pole Position
It's not worth doing the bushings alone because of the upper ball joint. I want this replaced as well. Unlike the lower, it's not separate. I am about 99% sure the parts are interchangeable without any issues. I'm going to confirm this before I buy.
Also, oem bushings are not available and I don't want polyurethane aftermarket. I'm leaning towards the Beck Arnley's because of the company reputation. The price difference is not an issue. $200 vs $960 is a good deal. Don't know if I trust the Mevotech company.
It's interesting, from what I understand the sport package difference included shocks, coils, upper and lower arms and rear sway bar. This whole setup can be swapped to a UL.
Also, oem bushings are not available and I don't want polyurethane aftermarket. I'm leaning towards the Beck Arnley's because of the company reputation. The price difference is not an issue. $200 vs $960 is a good deal. Don't know if I trust the Mevotech company.
It's interesting, from what I understand the sport package difference included shocks, coils, upper and lower arms and rear sway bar. This whole setup can be swapped to a UL.
12-05-14, 06:44 AM
#9
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I replaced the total suspension including upper control arms on my 2001 ls430 while converting to
mechanical shocks. I was surprised that the upper control arms bushing and ball joints were still
in pretty good shape after 250k miles. I only replaced them because I had everything completely
torn down already.
Alan
mechanical shocks. I was surprised that the upper control arms bushing and ball joints were still
in pretty good shape after 250k miles. I only replaced them because I had everything completely
torn down already.
Alan
12-05-14, 07:31 AM
#10
I believe the upper arms are going because it's really the last thing in the front that I have not replaced and I am getting movement and a pop here and there under front end suspension load. I looked at my UCA bushing and although visually they are not horrible they don't look great either. It's just starting and more pronounced on the drivers side but since the lowers have been done I want to do the uppers.
I went ahead and ordered the Beck / Arnley sport version. I would prefer the front end to be a little tighter. The only problems I have read about is when others have replaced all the lower control arm bushings with polyurethane. They are much larger and absorb more of the vibrations. Lexus never used poly so I know Beck / Arnley would not either. I think it will be a good thing. Honestly, they are probably 20% or less more stiff then the other. The UL is a heavy car. Heaviest of the bunch. Also, I spoke to Lexus of South Atlanta Parts and to their knowledge the only difference is the bushings.
I went ahead and ordered the Beck / Arnley sport version. I would prefer the front end to be a little tighter. The only problems I have read about is when others have replaced all the lower control arm bushings with polyurethane. They are much larger and absorb more of the vibrations. Lexus never used poly so I know Beck / Arnley would not either. I think it will be a good thing. Honestly, they are probably 20% or less more stiff then the other. The UL is a heavy car. Heaviest of the bunch. Also, I spoke to Lexus of South Atlanta Parts and to their knowledge the only difference is the bushings.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 12-05-14 at 08:08 AM.
12-05-14, 07:44 AM
#11
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One thing I might add is before tightening the upper control arms, be sure to raise them so they
are oriented at the height they would be if the wheel was on and sitting on the ground. This takes
the constant pressure off them.
(You probably already knew this, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.)
Alan
are oriented at the height they would be if the wheel was on and sitting on the ground. This takes
the constant pressure off them.
(You probably already knew this, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.)
Alan
12-05-14, 10:24 AM
#13
Let us know what you think of the parts you ordered and how it goes. Also would love to know where they're made.
I'm definitely in the camp that thinks your upper control arms are probably fine, that's usually one of the last thing to go. My car has close to 160k miles and they appear to be solid. But everyone's car is different.
Have you replaced your lower ball joints? Those usually need attention well before the upper control arm.
Usually a quick and dirty way to test is to jack up the wheel, grab the tire at various spots and check for any play in the upper control arm.
If you see play like the video below, you know you need new ones:
I'm definitely in the camp that thinks your upper control arms are probably fine, that's usually one of the last thing to go. My car has close to 160k miles and they appear to be solid. But everyone's car is different.
Have you replaced your lower ball joints? Those usually need attention well before the upper control arm.
Usually a quick and dirty way to test is to jack up the wheel, grab the tire at various spots and check for any play in the upper control arm.
If you see play like the video below, you know you need new ones:
12-05-14, 10:56 AM
#14
Good points Brad. I do not have movement like this. Anywhere in my suspension. I have not replaced my lower ball joints. It's funny, my dealer can't find what is making the noise and movement. Part of the problem is that I cannot recreate the problem consistently. They inspected the suspension thoroughly, checked the toque the everything accessible, and can't find anything wrong. Lower ball joints are also on my list as these and the tie rod ends have not been replaced. Dealer swears they are fine.
When I feel the movement and hear the pop it is when coming to a complete stop and particularly if the road is uneven and weight is not distributed evenly / shifts or I have to apply the brakes harder all of a sudden. The extra force will cause the two pops to happened. Something is moving that should not be. I was impressed at how replacing the LCA bushings helped the way the front end felt that I want to go ahead replace the uppers. As mentioned, I seem to be only able to recreate the issue while braking / slowing down. Brakes are in great shape.
This is somewhat similar in description but I have no problems on pot holes, turning, or hear / feel anything under any normal driving. You are right though, there is a chance it could be the lower ball joints. Could be the uppers too. Either way I plan on replacing them as well as the tie rod ends and sway bar links / bushings, eventually.
When I feel the movement and hear the pop it is when coming to a complete stop and particularly if the road is uneven and weight is not distributed evenly / shifts or I have to apply the brakes harder all of a sudden. The extra force will cause the two pops to happened. Something is moving that should not be. I was impressed at how replacing the LCA bushings helped the way the front end felt that I want to go ahead replace the uppers. As mentioned, I seem to be only able to recreate the issue while braking / slowing down. Brakes are in great shape.
Sounds
For most people, the first indication that they have a problem with their ball joints is a faint, intermittent banging sound that seems to be coming from a corner of the vehicle. This sound is usually more pronounced when going over a bump or dip, or when going around a corner. This is not the same as the clicking sound made by worn CV joints (constant-velocity joints) when going around corners. This sound is more like somebody hitting a piece of the metal structure with a hammer.
As time goes on, this sound becomes louder and more frequent. It is especially pronounced when the weight of the vehicle is transferred off and onto the wheel, such as when driving through a pothole. Left long enough, the sound of a worn ball joint can become a loud, creaking bang, similar to the sound of the bottom of the car hitting the ground.
For most people, the first indication that they have a problem with their ball joints is a faint, intermittent banging sound that seems to be coming from a corner of the vehicle. This sound is usually more pronounced when going over a bump or dip, or when going around a corner. This is not the same as the clicking sound made by worn CV joints (constant-velocity joints) when going around corners. This sound is more like somebody hitting a piece of the metal structure with a hammer.
As time goes on, this sound becomes louder and more frequent. It is especially pronounced when the weight of the vehicle is transferred off and onto the wheel, such as when driving through a pothole. Left long enough, the sound of a worn ball joint can become a loud, creaking bang, similar to the sound of the bottom of the car hitting the ground.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 12-05-14 at 11:34 AM.
12-05-14, 11:34 AM
#15
It's one of those situations that if your upper control arm ball joint is so bad it needs to be replaced, your lower ball joints and tie rods probably should have been replaced like 50k miles ago.
A lower ball joint can absolutely cause a popping noise in the situation you described. That is where most of the "abuse" is taken as the weight of the vehicle rests on that.
It could also be something like the strut mounts. I actually had a bad popping noise that ended up being simply the sway bar links on my previous Lexus.
I purchased some lower ball joints for the LS, just haven't gotten around to installing them and doing a write up. But they're actually pretty straightforward for DIY'er project since there's no "pressing" in and out, it simply bolts in. I personally would recommend going OEM in that instance because it's only like $30 more per side.
You probably have already heard all of this, but I would definitely do some testing and jack your car up and see where you can get any wheel play.
I would definitely start with the lower ball joint and see before I went into the upper control arm. Especially considering a $60 control arm could have questionable quality versus the Lexus one you have in there that could be fine.
Also, if you're not getting any weird tire wear issues and things feel tight, you might be better off just putting off that repair and ignoring the noise, assuming it's just barely there and only something a super **** LS owner (like all of us are) would hear.
A lower ball joint can absolutely cause a popping noise in the situation you described. That is where most of the "abuse" is taken as the weight of the vehicle rests on that.
It could also be something like the strut mounts. I actually had a bad popping noise that ended up being simply the sway bar links on my previous Lexus.
I purchased some lower ball joints for the LS, just haven't gotten around to installing them and doing a write up. But they're actually pretty straightforward for DIY'er project since there's no "pressing" in and out, it simply bolts in. I personally would recommend going OEM in that instance because it's only like $30 more per side.
You probably have already heard all of this, but I would definitely do some testing and jack your car up and see where you can get any wheel play.
I would definitely start with the lower ball joint and see before I went into the upper control arm. Especially considering a $60 control arm could have questionable quality versus the Lexus one you have in there that could be fine.
Also, if you're not getting any weird tire wear issues and things feel tight, you might be better off just putting off that repair and ignoring the noise, assuming it's just barely there and only something a super **** LS owner (like all of us are) would hear.