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hey buddy , ive been in a very similar , almost exact situation that your having with my old lexus.
I originally brought it to the dealer and they tried the same BS they are pulling with you , first they tried to charge me like $250 for diagnostic , which would of been fine if they had actually given me some answers , but no they just wanted me to throw money into the car replacing this and that without giving me a guarantee that it will fix the problem.
So I freaked out and they told me to take my car away and don't come back, which is exactly what I suggest you do.
They are supposed to be professionals, the risk and burden of giving a proper diagnosis and repair needs to land on THEM and not YOU!!! , if the computer does not work you should not be responsible for paying $1.00 for it, if they wont agree with this then go somewhere else.
As for me , after the dealer originally told me I needed coils, plugs , wires , ignitor and some other electrical components, (which I refused to do) , and a second mechanic told me I needed a new computer, ( which I tried and it didn't work) I went back to my regular mechanic who discovered it was a loose crank sensor!!!!
None of us here have heard of any of the main computers failing on these cars, seems unlikely , I would very strongly refuse to pay $500 for a diagnostic that gave no answers, they are crooks .
Sorry to hear about your predicament. This situation is one of my worst nightmares ... you're at the mercy of those idiots at the dealership. A buncha part-swapping monkeys that have no clue how to go about a real diagnosis of the problem. I don't know what I'd do if I were you but you have my sympathies. Please let us know what happens.
If you had the car at home, and had another car to use for a while, I would say pick up a used ECU from ebay or something and drop it in to try.
At least if you buy it on ebay and there is no change, you can re-list it back on ebay, you will take a hit but not that much (as long as you get a deal on the one you buy)....even in some cases, you might even make a profit...
Also, if an ECU is fried, many times you can see visible damage on the board.
It's not always going to be this obvious, but it can be. Have they even opened up the ECU and looked for these sort of signs? I doubt it.
Also, there's all sorts of basic diagnostic equipment dealerships have access to that can determine if an ECU is not working properly, they don't have to make $2,000 guesses with new ones.
It sounds to me like they're shotgunning parts at it. And if they guess wrong, they'll probably give some song and dance about how it also needed a new ECU with whatever the real repair ends up being.
Personally I think you should cancel the payment on the credit card if after $500 in fees they still don't have an answer once you get the car back, especially if another shop says the ECU is fine.
I live in cali, and there a ton of good indy mechanics that would only charge you and hour diagnosis, or pull and error code for free. I would refuse to give them anymore than one hour labor. Call up your local Lexus wrecker, and ask him how much for the part needed. Goodluck...
The car is repaired and I have it back, it turned out to be a $21.20 relay but it cost me a LOT more than that! … Please read on
While racking up a diagnostic bill of $675, I was told on three separate occasions they had done every test possible and needed to replace the ECU however, each time they also told me there was no guarantee that would fix the problem. Because of that, I kept questioning the logic of replacing the ECU and questioned what else could be tested? After the third round of discussions and insistence everything possible had been tested, and feeling I had no chose, I authorized replacing the ECU at a cost of $1893… $1600 for the ECU and $293 labor… plus the diagnostic cost.
As the days rolled on I received two calls telling me there were delays receiving the part. Then, after my car had been at the dealership for 10 days, I received a third call. This time I was told that the main Lexus service center in Torrance had refused to authorize shipment of the ECU until additional relay tests were conducted… Really?? I was told everything had been tested!
So the day went like this: I got a call at 9:30 a.m. telling me the info above. I authorized the testing although I was told there were no further diagnostic charges to me. At 2:00 p.m. I got a call telling me they found the problem, it was a simple relay and not the ECU. I authorized the repair and an 85K service that was due. I was told the repair and service would be completed by 5:00 p.m.
I picked up my car that afternoon; the total bill was $1165.63. No surprise to me but, the service rep. I had been working with went home early that day. In reviewing the bill, another service rep. confirmed the following breakdown:
• $256.78 was for a 5k service
• $21.20 was a part cost for a defective relay
• $10.15 Tax
• The balance, $877.50, was for diagnostic and labor to replace a simple relay:
$675.00 - 5 hours of diagnostic @ $135 per hour
$202.50 - 1 ˝ hours labor charged to replace the relay
IMPORTANT POINT: Had the Torrance service center not intervened and the ECU been replaced as recommended by the dealership, I would have been charged an additional $1893.00 and my car still wouldn’t have run.
Adding to my displeasure… While filing my repair paperwork today I noticed a 10% discount for a coupon I had wasn’t deducted. When my car was towed in on 10/6/14 I told the service rep. I had a coupon good for 10% off any service or repair. I was so annoyed and distracted when I picked up the car that I didn’t notice the discount hadn’t been applied.
I called and explained the oversight to the service rep. and asked how to receive reimbursement for the 10%. He told me it was too late to have 10% deducted from the bill and that it couldn’t be credited to my charge account however, he said he would make a note in my service file and I would receive a credit the next time I brought my car in for service.
When I told him that did me little good since I may never use their dealership again, he asked the obvious… why? I explained I found it difficult to understand how I bring my car to a Lexus dealership where they know the cars better than anyone and I have to pay $877 to replace a $21 part, $202.50 of which was for 1 ˝ hrs labor to replace a simple relay. He said the relay was in a difficult location and went on to explain the complexities and time that was involved in diagnosing the problem. I told him my issue was that I basically had to pay for the time it took their mechanics to learn how to fix my car. That did go over well… Ironically, the coupon I received from the dealership specifically says; LEXUS SERVICE THAT’S SECOND TO NONE.” I’m not convinced.
FINAL POINT OF INTEREST: I may be naďve but I thought this forum was somehow affiliated & endorsed by Lexus, apparently not?? On an occasion when the service rep. called to tell me there was a delay in receiving a new ECU, I was coincidently on-line viewing this forum and reading your relies.
When I told him I was viewing the Lexus Owners forum at that moment and there were no positive comments regarding their efforts and diagnostic conclusion, he said; “what do you expect from a site where everyone is going to complain about Lexus… Garbage in Garbage out.” Honestly, I was taken back as I have always found good information on this site and had never read anything negative about Lexus service until my posting. So thank you to those that replied, you were right and the only garbage I received was the initial diagnoses and recommendation from the Lexus dealer.
Moving forward I am too annoyed and aggravated to address this scenario with the dealership at the moment however, I intend to discuss this with the Service Manager. Absent receiving any satisfaction from him, are there any suggestions out there as to how I should proceed? And is it worth the effort? Or is there a consensus that this is justified? I don’t have a problem paying for justified expenses, however; given the facts and circumstances, the principle as to how the charges mounted are questionable.
If someone would clarify forum rules... if it is ok to list the dealership by name I would be happy to provide it.
wow man ,,,seems like your experience with the dealer was no better then mine, they are supposed to be the professionals, but they are not ,,they hire 3rd rate mechanics at $12 - $15 an hour and just apply all the risk and costs to YOU.
You really should not be paying $800, they should grant u the 10% back, you really need to get firm ,,u need to yell, u need to scream , u need to keep phoning and harassing them .
1. Suggest you politely request an in person private meeting with the service manager. Verify that the person is actual management not some supervisor or lead service writer.
2. At the meeting, keep it all business, no yelling/screaming no matter how frustrating, keep it very polite and professional. Bring copy of the paper work and make sure you have printouts to share with service manager of the time line and details/minutes of conversations you had with service writer about the supposed repairs and diagnostic fees you were charged. Let service manager know that the quality of their customer service has not met your expectations for the Lexus brand, and this meeting is his opportunity to make this right. Tell him you expect the diagnostic fees to be significantly reduced or removed entirely. Tell him you additionally expect the 10% discount from your coupon to be applied to the remaining repairs. And in my opinion they should throw in 3-4 oil changes because they screwed up so bad. Expect an argument, but don't argue - calmly let him know what you expect and politely ask him for his best offer to remedy the situation that is fair to everyone. Do not accept on the spot unless they agree to everything you want. Don't get excited or frustrated - what really scares these folks is someone that plays it 100% cool and calm.
3. Explain that if you do not come to an agreement with the dealer that your next move is to request a meeting with Lexus corporate and that you will also inform dealership's owner via certified letter that you have no other choice but to make a formal complaint to Lexus corporate about the dealership service department. .
4. If you have to go with Lexus corporate, be polite and tell them you love the car and the brand, but this specific situation has made you doubt Lexus customer service. Provide copy of all paperwork and your documented timeline and notes on conversations to Lexus corporate. I am pretty sure Lexus corporate will also find the 5 hrs of diagnostic and the dealer's incompetence when ordering the ECM to be unacceptable.
Be careful in the words you use - make no threats of any kind, make sure you tell them you want and expect a fair solution, and that you want to avoid a formal complaint to Lexus corporate, but will do so if necessary. Take notes at the meeting just like it was a normal business meeting because that is exactly what it is. Be calm, professional and firm and you likely get significant money back - and you should btw - this is not tricking them or getting away with anything. The situation as you describe it sounds like basic incompetence on the part to dealer service department. Once you get this resolved I advise you avoid this place like the plague.
Thanks for the followup post Ron. It might be useful to others looking at this in the future to know more about which relay was the problem. Is there a description/number on the invoice that you can share?
I also have a 2005 with about the same mileage as yours. Good luck.
Thank you for the replies thus far...
1WILLY1, you are right in that the dealership applied significant risk and costs to me in mishandling the diagnosis and repair of my vehicle. I am allowing myself a cooling down period to collect my thoughts and prepare for a calm / professional resolution. If I go down there now I may rant a bit and become that lunatic they could more easily dismiss.
Jadderwock, we are on the same page for approach. Thanks for the insight regarding Lexus corporate and a letter to owners; that is exactly the type of knowledge I was looking for. In addition to summarizing this incident similar to my last posting, I have maintained a chrono listing all times, dates, and conversations. Once I have all the info concisely prepared, I will call for an appointment with the service manager.
Rrgone… Good point regarding which relay? The part number is 90080-87026. Referring to the TAS Technical Assistance line the invoice states in part …”instructed to check relay in J/B block in IG2 circuit found poor contact inside relay – recommend replace relay”… Question: Can anyone verify if this is in fact a difficult location and does it justify 1˝ hours of labor cost?
Bottom line for me is this, yes; we enjoy our car and the brand. In fact, while our car was in for this repair the wife and I sat down with our original salesman and worked out trade in value and figures for a new car. I don’t see that moving forward at this point. I realize Lexus is an expensive car to own and can be expensive to maintain, however; I take issue with the costly misdiagnoses by the service department who insisted on replacing the ECU, with no guarantee that would fix the problem, and nearly costing me an exorbitant amount of wasted money had it not been for Lexus TAS Technical Assistance insisting on more tests… Tests the service department conducted after telling me on three separate occasions that all possible tests had been exhausted. Add to that the 1˝ hours labor to replace a simple relay and neglecting to deduct the 10% coupon and one has to wonder, who are they servicing aside from themselves.
Question: Has anyone here had any experience dealing with Lexus corporate? Are they receptive to mediating such problems? And does a local dealership really give a crud what corporate has to say about how they run their business?
Thanks again for your insight and feedback. Not bad for “Garbage in – Garbage out”… LOL
Wow though I''m not shocked at the manner in which the dealer ran the diagnostics.
Jabberwock gave you a nice outline to follow. Keep us posted.
As a BTW: The capacitors used in the 90-97 LS400's contained a corrosive fluid compound. As they aged the capacitors would leak damaging the PCB at 10 year+ range. The later LS's had been changed to a different fluid compound from 98+ that didn't exhibit these leakage problems. As far as what the discussion has lead, ECU issues for later generations should not pose a similar scenario. Relays do fail and we've had discussions about those which are easily replaced. These are far more wallet friendly price opposed to ECU's.
Will flag this discussion so that future owners who have these symptoms will know to check the relay. Which relay did they replace?
If after speaking with a person in charge you don't get any satisfaction, cancel the payment on the credit card.
I personally think they should goodwill the entire repair for having your car for 10 days, but I wouldn't pay more than 1 hour for diagnosis plus the cost of the $20 part. Also, if you did get a loaner car, they need to eat that as well.
I never think a consumer should let a dealership "guess" with expensive repairs without some sort of guarantee. Also, 5 hours of diagnostics to identify a problem is really over the top, unless you're talking about something crazy like a fire happened under your hood, that's just highway robbery for a single repair.
And yes, please name the dealership (probably a good idea though to wait until after you've had the issue resolved)
Glad you were able to get out of there without a new ECU, but it's shocking that a dealership tried to pull this off. They're either incredibly incompetent or crooks, my guess is a bit of both.
This means part # 90080-87026, "RELAY, IGNITION, NO.2", PNC 28371C, price $17.47USD @ Sewell with ClubLexus discount, the diagram for it is at http://lexus.sewellparts.com/images/...000/843674.jpg, bubble number 7 shows the location on the No.1 Relay Block.
And I am appalled at the dealership charging you for that much diagnostic time. Do what you need to do to get those charges reversed. Should have been no more than 2 hours of labor for "professionals" to diagnose and replace the defective part.
10-14-14, 05:40 AM
