My Mark Levinson Replacements - Woofer and Front Door Speakers
11-14-12, 08:38 AM
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My Mark Levinson Replacements - Woofer and Front Door Speakers
Let me start out by saying I have a 2002 Lexus LS430. My goal is not to get a lot of "thump" or be very loud. Rather my goal is mainly to replace the Mark Levinson woofer and speakers in my car that have blown with non-Mark Levinson speakers in order to avoid replacing something broken with something that's apparently easy to break, or at the very least, something that degrades relatively quickly.
So, I've looked and looked and there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus on these forums of what a good plug and play subwoofer would be to replace the Mark Levinson sub. There was a thread where a guy popped a JL sub into his car and seemed to be pleased with the results, however, a number of people following his initial post in 2007 seem to have had problems either wiring it correctly or once it was installed with it cutting out at higher volumes because the head unit went into lockdown mode (aka protection mode). That didn't sound appealing to me. As I continued to read the thread (you can find the whole thread here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...-the-boom.html) , I found that some people had used a
Polk Audio db840DVC 8-Inch Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer (60 bucks on Amazon)
I read a number of reviews that said that it was a plug and play solution on Amazon itself. There was also a thread here that referred to this specific model. I also read that it needed to be wired in series as opposed to in parallel in order to work properly. Many posts seem to assume that the ML Sub is a 12 Ohm sub, so it is worthwhile to note that this will not be a 12 ohm solution. However, there hasn't been any conclusive confirmation that it is infact a 12 ohm sub, but many people's research have lead to that conclusion. That being said, if this sub works with the stock amp without blowing it up and costs me 60 bucks, I'll be satisfied.
In what I believe was an effort to match his brands, the person who first posted about the Polk solution posted that he was also installing "Polk MM651 6.5's for the front [door.]" Now, I'm a big fan of brand consistency myself. However, with enough reading, I came to the conclusion that the ML speakers in the front door required an unusually high impedance of 6 or 8 ohms. Looking at the Polk door speakers, they appeared to be 2 or 4 ohms. I can't recall which. That being the case, it is my understanding that you could burn up your amp which again, would be a huge pain in the ***. I decided to look elsewhere to ensure that the impedance was correct on my speakers.
Many people had posted that there weren't any worthwhile 6-8 ohm 6.5 inch speakers on the market, but the posts were a few years old, so I did some looking around. It took me about a day of searching, but I finally ended up running across the Eminence Eminator EM 1506. (If you want to see the speakers I ordered, you can see them here: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-700 ) They had some great reviews as mid drivers and that was basically all I was looking for, given that I have the sub in the back to push most of my bass. They only have 1 review on amazon, which is 3 stars and it basically says that they don't have enough bass. Again, I am not looking for huge bass out of them, just what's reasonable for a mid driver to put out.
I got the stuff in over the past few days, unboxed it all and started reading about some of the installs. Although people said it only took them an hour or two for the sub and longer for the door speakers to self install, I began to become squeamish when I realized that you need to take the entire door panel off in order to get at the door speakers. There is a speaker shop in the plaza that I work in who does competition audio. Obviously, I'm not looking for a competition level set up, just working replacements for my ML set up. However, I went in and talked to the guy, he told me that even though the speakers I bought have a mount depth of 3.3 inches (THIS IS LARGER THAN YOUR AVERAGE CAR STEREO DOOR SPEAKER), that the stock ML's have a mount depth of 3 inches. He was more than confident in his ability to make it work (I would say confident in his ability to "fudge it"). I asked for a quote for the install and he said to install the speakers I had purchased, he would charge me 150 total for both doors and the sub assuming that it didn't require any fabrication. If he had to fab anything for the doors to get the speakers to fit, he said he would charge an addition 20 dollars per mount that he had to fab including carpeting etc. Additionally, it's all guaranteed for life.
Now, after being charged 2250 by Lexus for a Y-Pipe replacement recently (so that I could pass Maryland's emissions test that doesn't test emissions but instead tests if your check engine light is on), 200 max to do the install sounded like a deal to me. Now I don't have to spend my entire Saturday dropping speakers in my car. Better yet, I can drop the car off and get it back the same day without any worries about rides because they are literally right next to my office.
When I go back in to drop it off, I'll ask them if they mind taking some pictures for me so that I can post them up here and in trade I'll offer to link to their website (probably a fair deal).
I'll also let everyone know how it turns out. My hope is to have clean audio at a higher volume back, right now it's full of pops and farts and no one likes that. I will keep you posted.
So, I've looked and looked and there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus on these forums of what a good plug and play subwoofer would be to replace the Mark Levinson sub. There was a thread where a guy popped a JL sub into his car and seemed to be pleased with the results, however, a number of people following his initial post in 2007 seem to have had problems either wiring it correctly or once it was installed with it cutting out at higher volumes because the head unit went into lockdown mode (aka protection mode). That didn't sound appealing to me. As I continued to read the thread (you can find the whole thread here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...-the-boom.html) , I found that some people had used a
Polk Audio db840DVC 8-Inch Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer (60 bucks on Amazon)
I read a number of reviews that said that it was a plug and play solution on Amazon itself. There was also a thread here that referred to this specific model. I also read that it needed to be wired in series as opposed to in parallel in order to work properly. Many posts seem to assume that the ML Sub is a 12 Ohm sub, so it is worthwhile to note that this will not be a 12 ohm solution. However, there hasn't been any conclusive confirmation that it is infact a 12 ohm sub, but many people's research have lead to that conclusion. That being said, if this sub works with the stock amp without blowing it up and costs me 60 bucks, I'll be satisfied.
In what I believe was an effort to match his brands, the person who first posted about the Polk solution posted that he was also installing "Polk MM651 6.5's for the front [door.]" Now, I'm a big fan of brand consistency myself. However, with enough reading, I came to the conclusion that the ML speakers in the front door required an unusually high impedance of 6 or 8 ohms. Looking at the Polk door speakers, they appeared to be 2 or 4 ohms. I can't recall which. That being the case, it is my understanding that you could burn up your amp which again, would be a huge pain in the ***. I decided to look elsewhere to ensure that the impedance was correct on my speakers.
Many people had posted that there weren't any worthwhile 6-8 ohm 6.5 inch speakers on the market, but the posts were a few years old, so I did some looking around. It took me about a day of searching, but I finally ended up running across the Eminence Eminator EM 1506. (If you want to see the speakers I ordered, you can see them here: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-700 ) They had some great reviews as mid drivers and that was basically all I was looking for, given that I have the sub in the back to push most of my bass. They only have 1 review on amazon, which is 3 stars and it basically says that they don't have enough bass. Again, I am not looking for huge bass out of them, just what's reasonable for a mid driver to put out.
I got the stuff in over the past few days, unboxed it all and started reading about some of the installs. Although people said it only took them an hour or two for the sub and longer for the door speakers to self install, I began to become squeamish when I realized that you need to take the entire door panel off in order to get at the door speakers. There is a speaker shop in the plaza that I work in who does competition audio. Obviously, I'm not looking for a competition level set up, just working replacements for my ML set up. However, I went in and talked to the guy, he told me that even though the speakers I bought have a mount depth of 3.3 inches (THIS IS LARGER THAN YOUR AVERAGE CAR STEREO DOOR SPEAKER), that the stock ML's have a mount depth of 3 inches. He was more than confident in his ability to make it work (I would say confident in his ability to "fudge it"). I asked for a quote for the install and he said to install the speakers I had purchased, he would charge me 150 total for both doors and the sub assuming that it didn't require any fabrication. If he had to fab anything for the doors to get the speakers to fit, he said he would charge an addition 20 dollars per mount that he had to fab including carpeting etc. Additionally, it's all guaranteed for life.
Now, after being charged 2250 by Lexus for a Y-Pipe replacement recently (so that I could pass Maryland's emissions test that doesn't test emissions but instead tests if your check engine light is on), 200 max to do the install sounded like a deal to me. Now I don't have to spend my entire Saturday dropping speakers in my car. Better yet, I can drop the car off and get it back the same day without any worries about rides because they are literally right next to my office.
When I go back in to drop it off, I'll ask them if they mind taking some pictures for me so that I can post them up here and in trade I'll offer to link to their website (probably a fair deal).
I'll also let everyone know how it turns out. My hope is to have clean audio at a higher volume back, right now it's full of pops and farts and no one likes that. I will keep you posted.
11-14-12, 09:25 AM
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11-14-12, 11:35 AM
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Thanks for the write up, I'd love there to be a true "plug and play" option that I would feel comfortable doing, but any type of fabrication of brackets makes me just want to go factory or have a pro do it. I'd love to see some pics of the installation.
I "fixed" my rear sub by putting electrical "liquid tape" around the perimeter. My research indicated this is basically what speaker repair shops use. It worked FANTASTIC, good as new, and saved me a bundle. It was really blown before.
I'm going to go on the record here though and say the Mark Levinson option is a joke. For home audio, Mark Levinson is probably one of the top 3 brands money can buy, but for the Lexus, it's basically a $200 pile a crap with a fancy name on it that Lexus charges a fortune for. I had a 1999 ES 300 with a base audio system and it sounded as good or better than the Levinson system.
BTW, on the Y-pipe, I probably would have done something like this:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...ytic+converter
It's a bolt in, and a muffler shop probably would have done the job for $100.
I "fixed" my rear sub by putting electrical "liquid tape" around the perimeter. My research indicated this is basically what speaker repair shops use. It worked FANTASTIC, good as new, and saved me a bundle. It was really blown before.
I'm going to go on the record here though and say the Mark Levinson option is a joke. For home audio, Mark Levinson is probably one of the top 3 brands money can buy, but for the Lexus, it's basically a $200 pile a crap with a fancy name on it that Lexus charges a fortune for. I had a 1999 ES 300 with a base audio system and it sounded as good or better than the Levinson system.
BTW, on the Y-pipe, I probably would have done something like this:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...ytic+converter
It's a bolt in, and a muffler shop probably would have done the job for $100.
11-14-12, 12:10 PM
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Yep. That's what I get for going to the dealership. Hopefully I'll never be so rushed again. That would have been an ideal replacement Y-Pipe.
I tried the silicon bead around the subwoofer fix. It worked for about a month and then "re-blew." I decided to just turn the bass down below half and fade the sound forward a bit. Shock, the second front blew.
I've just lived with them blown for quite a while, but I was in my buddy's car the other day and he turned a song that I liked up for me and I was like, man, remember when my car stereo didn't suck? Back when I had a bose setup in my maxima? (Obv not the nicest, but not the worst either.)
In addition, recently my Nav "ECU" (aka DVD drive) died on me and I'm getting the no disc error about 96% of the time. I've got a new ECU off of ebay out of a prius coming in tomorrow. After dropping 2k on a Y-Pipe, I figure I'll have this car for at least 2-3 more years. If that's the case, I want everything in working order.
My ultimate hope is that these speakers sound really great and eventually, I can just replace the back door speakers with the Eminence ones as well. That would leave the tweeters which will basically never blow.
As I said before, I'll try to get the shop to take some pictures for me before they put the door panels back on.
I tried the silicon bead around the subwoofer fix. It worked for about a month and then "re-blew." I decided to just turn the bass down below half and fade the sound forward a bit. Shock, the second front blew.
I've just lived with them blown for quite a while, but I was in my buddy's car the other day and he turned a song that I liked up for me and I was like, man, remember when my car stereo didn't suck? Back when I had a bose setup in my maxima? (Obv not the nicest, but not the worst either.)
In addition, recently my Nav "ECU" (aka DVD drive) died on me and I'm getting the no disc error about 96% of the time. I've got a new ECU off of ebay out of a prius coming in tomorrow. After dropping 2k on a Y-Pipe, I figure I'll have this car for at least 2-3 more years. If that's the case, I want everything in working order.
My ultimate hope is that these speakers sound really great and eventually, I can just replace the back door speakers with the Eminence ones as well. That would leave the tweeters which will basically never blow.
As I said before, I'll try to get the shop to take some pictures for me before they put the door panels back on.
11-14-12, 02:44 PM
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Just spoke to the guy at the audio shop I decided to have install my speakers. He said that he had managed to get the speakers to fit despite their relatively large mount depth. Not only that, but he had managed to get them to fit the stock mounting brackets! He said that they sound great.
I can't tell you how pumped I am that it worked out well. I asked him to take some pictures for me during the install while the door panel was off, so I'll get them up tonight hopefully, but as of today, according to the professional audio installer, the Eminence speakers work well as replacements for the front door speakers on the 2002 LS 430.
PSYCHED!
I can't tell you how pumped I am that it worked out well. I asked him to take some pictures for me during the install while the door panel was off, so I'll get them up tonight hopefully, but as of today, according to the professional audio installer, the Eminence speakers work well as replacements for the front door speakers on the 2002 LS 430.
PSYCHED!
11-14-12, 06:21 PM
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Okay, so I picked my car up this evening with everything all installed. I paid and walked out ready to go.
I plugged my iPod in got in my car and right before I got on the road I hit play. The first bass hit game and the sound cut out. AGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I immediately called the place and said, uh hi, how did you wire it? The sub was a dual voice coal sub, so it needed to be wired in series rather than parallel to get the right impedence. Obviously, he had wired it parallel. He goes, "Well why? It's not like it's a dual voice coil..." I said, actually that's exactly what it's like lol.
I was able to fade the balance a bit forward and use a less bass intensive song to test out the new speakers and they sound AWESOME! I'm pumped. Very clear sound, no distortion even at high volumes. Overall, I'm incredibly pleased with them. They're the part that I was more concerned about to be honest.
Obviously, the guy said he'd rewire the sub for me, so we'll be able to hear the final set up Friday, but for today I'm pleased that my research on the speakers worked out. Yet to be realized on the sub :-/.
Here are some pictures, unfortunately the pictures of the speakers mounted in didn't come out all that well, but you can see them sitting in the stock brackets.
Speaker mounted in stock bracket.
Alternate view in stock bracket.
Original ML Sub
Back Seat pulled out for access to Sub access.
Sub Mounted in Deck
Him only wiring one side of the Sub lol.
I plugged my iPod in got in my car and right before I got on the road I hit play. The first bass hit game and the sound cut out. AGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I immediately called the place and said, uh hi, how did you wire it? The sub was a dual voice coal sub, so it needed to be wired in series rather than parallel to get the right impedence. Obviously, he had wired it parallel. He goes, "Well why? It's not like it's a dual voice coil..." I said, actually that's exactly what it's like lol.
I was able to fade the balance a bit forward and use a less bass intensive song to test out the new speakers and they sound AWESOME! I'm pumped. Very clear sound, no distortion even at high volumes. Overall, I'm incredibly pleased with them. They're the part that I was more concerned about to be honest.
Obviously, the guy said he'd rewire the sub for me, so we'll be able to hear the final set up Friday, but for today I'm pleased that my research on the speakers worked out. Yet to be realized on the sub :-/.
Here are some pictures, unfortunately the pictures of the speakers mounted in didn't come out all that well, but you can see them sitting in the stock brackets.
Speaker mounted in stock bracket.
Alternate view in stock bracket.
Original ML Sub
Back Seat pulled out for access to Sub access.
Sub Mounted in Deck
Him only wiring one side of the Sub lol.
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11-15-12, 04:52 AM
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Like I said in the OP, I ended up using the Eminence Eminators I think the model was 1506a. They were 6.5 inch 8-ohm speakers. There should be a link up in the OP.
11-15-12, 07:19 AM
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Oh and the price was not bad at all. The speakers were about 30 a piece and the new sub was 60, although I haven't really been able to hear it yet since the guy wired it incorrectly. I'll report back Friday.
I paid a total of 200 for installation, but for not having to take off the door panels/pull out the back seat/deck myself, it's totally worth it.
So about 320 total to replace the two front door speakers and replace the sub. I will likely replace the back door speakers eventually just for consistency, but I didn't want to spend all the money at once. I'll probably keep the tweeters forever, just because they sound fine and are not likely to ever go bad on me.
I paid a total of 200 for installation, but for not having to take off the door panels/pull out the back seat/deck myself, it's totally worth it.
So about 320 total to replace the two front door speakers and replace the sub. I will likely replace the back door speakers eventually just for consistency, but I didn't want to spend all the money at once. I'll probably keep the tweeters forever, just because they sound fine and are not likely to ever go bad on me.
11-15-12, 08:15 AM
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I'm not sure if it was unclear somehow in my other answer, here is a link directly to the speakers I bought: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-700
They are Eminence Eminator 1506 6-1/2" High Power Car Midrange 8 Ohm Speakers...
They are Eminence Eminator 1506 6-1/2" High Power Car Midrange 8 Ohm Speakers...
11-15-12, 03:11 PM
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Front speakers are easily fixed with a $1 tube of super glue. I repaired 1 speaker over 6 months ago and I have had no issues. The passenger side was repaired two weeks ago and so far so good. 5 minutes to remove door panel and speaker and I waited an hour for the glue to dry. I wanted to be overly cautious and make sure that it was sealed. I used two coats of glue on the top surface around the trim and let it dry with the magnet on the table. I hope that this helps.
11-15-12, 03:50 PM
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Although the glue fix will work, it's a temporary fix, and can eventually damage the cone. Refoaming would be as close to a permanent fix as a new replacement.
11-15-12, 07:46 PM
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I used the glue fix on my sub originally. I didn't go as far as refoaming. Honestly, it worked for about a month and then "reblew" if you can call it that. Perhaps my original blow (that had already happened when I first got the car) was worse than the standard problems people experience. After a couple of days though, I have to say, I think that these Eminence speakers sound better than the originals. I had never heard of the brand before and really only ended up finding them because of the 8 ohm requirement of the amplified system, but I'm glad I did. They sound awesome.
As I said, I will report back tomorrow regarding my experience with the Polk sub once it's been wired correctly. I'm not saying that you should definitely replace your stock speakers. I'm just trying to provide as close to a plug and play option as exists with the original ML head unit.
I think the frustrating thing from my point of view is that Lexus shouldn't have these problems with their "premium" sound system.
As I said, I will report back tomorrow regarding my experience with the Polk sub once it's been wired correctly. I'm not saying that you should definitely replace your stock speakers. I'm just trying to provide as close to a plug and play option as exists with the original ML head unit.
I think the frustrating thing from my point of view is that Lexus shouldn't have these problems with their "premium" sound system.
11-15-12, 08:30 PM
#15
I used the glue fix on my sub originally. I didn't go as far as refoaming. Honestly, it worked for about a month and then "reblew" if you can call it that. Perhaps my original blow (that had already happened when I first got the car) was worse than the standard problems people experience. After a couple of days though, I have to say, I think that these Eminence speakers sound better than the originals. I had never heard of the brand before and really only ended up finding them because of the 8 ohm requirement of the amplified system, but I'm glad I did. They sound awesome.
As I said, I will report back tomorrow regarding my experience with the Polk sub once it's been wired correctly. I'm not saying that you should definitely replace your stock speakers. I'm just trying to provide as close to a plug and play option as exists with the original ML head unit.
I think the frustrating thing from my point of view is that Lexus shouldn't have these problems with their "premium" sound system.
As I said, I will report back tomorrow regarding my experience with the Polk sub once it's been wired correctly. I'm not saying that you should definitely replace your stock speakers. I'm just trying to provide as close to a plug and play option as exists with the original ML head unit.
I think the frustrating thing from my point of view is that Lexus shouldn't have these problems with their "premium" sound system.