Go Back   Club Lexus Forums > Lexus Model Forums > LS Models > LS430
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

Highway wandering

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-22-11, 08:23 PM   #16
Stu
Lexus Test Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TORONTO, Canada
Posts: 837
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddyowner View Post
Does the handling change after rotating your wheels? One of my buddies had a bent wheel that was causing similar problems with his 04 DeVille. Of course, some DeVilles (and now DTSs and Lucernes) continue to have suspension shakes no matter what you do.
I had the tires rotated many times with no improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BNR34 View Post
Is + toe means toe out?

If it is, that's your problem. You want toe in to go straight.

Those shops that works on those "specified range" is a joke, I learned that when I was a kid before I got my license helping my mom align her 1st car at like a firestone shop. Half of that "specified range" is bad.

Go find a real alignment shop.

My LS430 with 88k miles with all original bushings, go straight like an arrow at 130 mph, I can even take my hands off the wheel.

How many times you get it align doesn't matter if those same morons keep adjusting it to the bad settings.
Don't know what + toe means, but if it need to be " toe in " to drive straight, thats good to know and I'll tell that to whoever does the next alignment. I didn't take to car to inexperienced shops. One was a Lexus dealer, and the others were done by independents. But I will be looking for a new place for sure - someone who will redo it until I am satisfied.
This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Club Lexus!
__________________


LS = spoiled forever
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-11, 09:18 PM   #17
RA40
Moderator
Trader Score: (6)
 
RA40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 15,869
Default

+1 to BNR34 post, to much toe. The front toe on mine is .08 and rear is .06. Tires depending on alignment will have a stronger tramelling affect which is what you are encountering. So if you are lowered, a proper alignment is important. These shops are dialing in to much and or the tech is lazy to fine tune the initial settings.

You paid, go back and have them re-do it with less toe. It falls within spec but with some cars, they don't feel right. Problem shows up with uneven, premature tire wear and by then, the tire/s are

If you get a good alignment, don't mess with it unless it is obvious the car is pulling hard after a pot hole encounter or similar road hazard. Some tire shops "suggest" an alignment with new tires, this makes them extra $$. Don't fix what isn't broken.
__________________

Mike
RA40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 08:36 AM   #18
azcamber
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
azcamber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 143
Azcamber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BNR34 View Post
Is + toe means toe out?

If it is, that's your problem. You want toe in to go straight.

Those shops that works on those "specified range" is a joke, I learned that when I was a kid before I got my license helping my mom align her 1st car at like a firestone shop. Half of that "specified range" is bad.

Go find a real alignment shop.

My LS430 with 88k miles with all original bushings, go straight like an arrow at 130 mph, I can even take my hands off the wheel.

How many times you get it align doesn't matter if those same morons keep adjusting it to the bad settings.
Negative toe is toe out, positive toe is toe in.
azcamber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 08:47 AM   #19
Sango
Lexus Champion
Trader Score: (10)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC / Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,199
Default

Looks like you have gone to a shop to an alignment tech that doesn't know what they are doing - probably just lining up the lights green, good!

Looking at the readouts, they did not try to even balance the cambers. Since I'm not familiar with LS (being on 2IS side), it may not be adjustable such that it may require the use of adjusting the sub-frame to correct geometry issues and therefore can correct the camber and others in the process which an experienced alignment tech would be able to do.

Here is my report on my IS for instance. Notice my numbers between left and right are mostly identical in the after compared to before? My car is brand new too.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
2011 USB/Black IS 250 F Sport/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S and Xenon HID Conversion Kit 6500K H1 Projectors/3M Venture Shield/JLC Lighting/JDM Aero Underbody Panels/F1 Pinnacle 35 and 40/Llumar Air Blue 80
2007 BWB/Light Gray IS 250 AWD/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S (Sold)

Last edited by Sango; 11-23-11 at 09:07 AM..
Sango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 09:08 AM   #20
azcamber
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
azcamber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 143
Azcamber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sango View Post
Looks like you have gone to a shop to an alignment tech that doesn't know what they are doing - probably just lining up the lights green, good!

Looking at the readouts, they did not try to even balance the cambers. Since I'm not familiar with LS (being on 2IS side), it may not be adjustable such that it may require the use of adjusting the sub-frame to correct geometry issues and therefore can correct the camber and others in the process which an experienced alignment tech would be able to do.

Here is my report on my IS for instance. Notice my numbers between left and right are mostly identical in the after compared to before? My car is brand new too.

Click the image to open in full size.
they didnt balance the camber on purpose, to combat road crown and caster pull.
camber pulls to which ever side is more positive, and caster pulls to which ever side is more negative.
i dont know how the roads are where you live but in arizona we have crowned roads to keep water off of our roads when it does rain.
i have no problem with his front camber. if anything his car should drift left because of camber, and right because of caster.
azcamber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 09:49 AM   #21
BNR34
Lexus Fanatic
Trader Score: (1)
 
BNR34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azcamber View Post
Negative toe is toe out, positive toe is toe in.
Yeah I don't know how those lame computerized machine reads, I do it the old fashion racer method with a ruler. I know what works for me and It is dead on everytime.
BNR34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 09:53 AM   #22
BNR34
Lexus Fanatic
Trader Score: (1)
 
BNR34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Don't know what + toe means, but if it need to be " toe in " to drive straight, thats good to know and I'll tell that to whoever does the next alignment. I didn't take to car to inexperienced shops. One was a Lexus dealer, and the others were done by independents. But I will be looking for a new place for sure - someone who will redo it until I am satisfied.
The dealer is just a business, how good the work is all depends on the tech, there are tons of incompetent morons that works at the dealer.

To all dealer's tech reading this, I said most, there are always expections to a few individuals that are extremely good.

But usually the really good mechanics just open their own shop or works at an independent shop after they learn what they need from a dealer. Dealer don't pay so good folks don't stay.
BNR34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 11:54 AM   #23
azdpac
Driver School Candidate
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 5
Default If it has air ride...

If it has air ride, check to make sure the car is level and all the shocks are good. Sounds like the same problem I have. Just not as bad. I had it to the dealer today and found out the r/r shock is bad, which is why I am here. I'm looking for parts.

Good Luck,
Dan
azdpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 01:06 PM   #24
Sango
Lexus Champion
Trader Score: (10)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC / Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azcamber View Post
they didnt balance the camber on purpose, to combat road crown and caster pull.
camber pulls to which ever side is more positive, and caster pulls to which ever side is more negative.
i dont know how the roads are where you live but in arizona we have crowned roads to keep water off of our roads when it does rain.
i have no problem with his front camber. if anything his car should drift left because of camber, and right because of caster.
Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA, also crowned roads as well.

A proper alignment would allow the vehicle to follow the crowns (not pulling), not combat or counter. With the unbalanced ones, on a essentially flat road, it's going to basically drift which it not suppose to. With the alignment I got, works on crowned and flats.

The same alignment tech has also balanced cambers for my other IS which now a family member has as well.

Caster I'm not sure about but I do suspect there maybe some geometry issues that may need to be addressed too to properly get it aligned.
__________________
2011 USB/Black IS 250 F Sport/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S and Xenon HID Conversion Kit 6500K H1 Projectors/3M Venture Shield/JLC Lighting/JDM Aero Underbody Panels/F1 Pinnacle 35 and 40/Llumar Air Blue 80
2007 BWB/Light Gray IS 250 AWD/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S (Sold)

Last edited by Sango; 11-23-11 at 01:22 PM..
Sango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 01:39 PM   #25
Stu
Lexus Test Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TORONTO, Canada
Posts: 837
Default

Megan makes adjustable rear lower arms for the LS

http://meganracing.com/products/prod...=1189&catid=25

Will this help fix my car ?
__________________


LS = spoiled forever

Last edited by Stu; 11-23-11 at 07:35 PM..
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 01:44 PM   #26
azcamber
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
azcamber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 143
Azcamber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sango View Post
Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA, also crowned roads as well.

A proper alignment would allow the vehicle to follow the crowns (not pulling), not combat or counter. With the unbalanced ones, on a essentially flat road, it's going to basically drift which it not suppose to. With the alignment I got, works on crowned and flats.

The same alignment tech has also balanced cambers for my other IS which now a family member has as well.

Caster I'm not sure about but I do suspect there maybe some geometry issues that may need to be addressed too to properly get it aligned.
you are right, if the road is crowned the vehicle would have a natural tendency to pull right because of gravity. so you align a vehicle to have a slight left drift to compensate for it, to acquire this drift you can do it with caster or camber. the manufacturer recommends .5 degrees of cross camber (meaning one side has more than another) and .5 degree of cross caster for these reasons.
azcamber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 01:46 PM   #27
BNR34
Lexus Fanatic
Trader Score: (1)
 
BNR34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
I want to fix the rear camber. Megan makes adjustable rear lower arms for the LS

http://meganracing.com/products/prod...=1189&catid=25

Who thinks this plus a good allignment will this help fix my car ?
Is your toe bro, camber don't make the car wander.

If the toe is right, you can have camber like these and the car would still go straight:

Click the image to open in full size.
BNR34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 01:51 PM   #28
Sango
Lexus Champion
Trader Score: (10)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC / Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azcamber View Post
you are right, if the road is crowned the vehicle would have a natural tendency to pull right because of gravity. so you align a vehicle to have a slight left drift to compensate for it, to acquire this drift you can do it with caster or camber. the manufacturer recommends .5 degrees of cross camber (meaning one side has more than another) and .5 degree of cross caster for these reasons.
Hmm, I never seen manufacture's mention it, and also that the alignment spec schematic for my IS does not say that either. In terms of how vehicle drives with the way it it was aligned, it does not drift on flat surfaces.
__________________
2011 USB/Black IS 250 F Sport/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S and Xenon HID Conversion Kit 6500K H1 Projectors/3M Venture Shield/JLC Lighting/JDM Aero Underbody Panels/F1 Pinnacle 35 and 40/Llumar Air Blue 80
2007 BWB/Light Gray IS 250 AWD/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S (Sold)
Sango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 02:02 PM   #29
azcamber
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
azcamber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 143
Azcamber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sango View Post
Hmm, I never seen manufacture's mention it, and also that the alignment spec schematic for my IS does not say that either. In terms of how vehicle drives with the way it it was aligned, it does not drift on flat surfaces.
aside from being far off subject, a crowned road is not a flat surface.
as far as you never seeing a manufacture mention it, i am not sure you do alignments on toyota's or lexus for a living
let me refer you to a generalized service bulletin for aligning a car that pulls or drifts.
http://www.lambros.net/LexusTechInfo...SB-0174-08.pdf
enjoy!
azcamber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 02:46 PM   #30
Sango
Lexus Champion
Trader Score: (10)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC / Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azcamber View Post
aside from being far off subject, a crowned road is not a flat surface.
as far as you never seeing a manufacture mention it, i am not sure you do alignments on toyota's or lexus for a living
let me refer you to a generalized service bulletin for aligning a car that pulls or drifts.
http://www.lambros.net/LexusTechInfo...SB-0174-08.pdf
enjoy!
In my initial post, I said at my alignment tech, so no I do not work on alignments - I'm in an IT Software Engineer.

I'm mean virtually flat surface - not a road crown. There are a few places which with roads or facilities design like this. One simple one is in the dealership's service car floor - flat.

I actually asked a co-worker (who is experienced in cars, way beyond me) who drives an M3 for racing on the track - asked him a several weeks ago a similar question about driving on crowns. The answer was if I recall, was that it is not suppose to do that because if it set correctly, on a crown, it would require user input to correct the steering, not setting it such that it does not need to be corrected.

I would trust what my alignment tech does since he's known in the industry and does exotic cars such at Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, Aston Martin as a lot of customers recommend him.
__________________
2011 USB/Black IS 250 F Sport/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S and Xenon HID Conversion Kit 6500K H1 Projectors/3M Venture Shield/JLC Lighting/JDM Aero Underbody Panels/F1 Pinnacle 35 and 40/Llumar Air Blue 80
2007 BWB/Light Gray IS 250 AWD/F-Sport High Flow Air Filter/Philips Ultinon 6000K D4S (Sold)

Last edited by Sango; 11-23-11 at 06:42 PM..
Sango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-11, 02:46 PM
 
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Always out of Alignment !!! PhantomV GS - Third Generation 16 10-13-14 12:43 PM
My Experience with Steering Shimmy, ADUS 207 Poly Rack Bushings, and Wheel Balancing BayAreaLex Suspension and Brakes 7 04-02-14 11:35 PM
Just purchased CPO ES - trouble with steering/alignment nivla ES350 (2007 - 2012) 6 06-29-11 07:56 AM
Steering Wheel Vibration moses0324 IS - Second Generation 30 04-25-11 06:24 PM
Wheel Balance/Alignment riley2620 ES350 (2007 - 2012) 1 09-05-06 10:26 PM


Tags
2006, alignment, auto, car, grooves, gs300, highway, information, lexus, ls430, ls460, manufacturers, report, road, steering, wander, wandering

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:44 AM.

Join ClubLexus
Advertising


Copyright © 2000-2008 Internet Brands, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Privacy Policy | Disclaimer | Terms of Use | JOBS


Get all contact info