Oil "overfill" seems to be common ..
12-13-07, 08:30 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Oil "overfill" seems to be common ..
I don't know if others have experienced this or not, but I've been seeing (and hearing of) more and more incidences of overfilling the oil by garages/techs lately.
It's happened to me several times, even by a NJ Lexus shop on my previous car (an ES300). Friends at work have seen it also. I think part of the problem is that a change w/filter might require 4.5 quarts. The auto-fillers might be set to non-fractional amounts, say 5 quarts (or the tech opens 5 quarts and just dumps them all in). You really have to do your own, or check the oil immediately after the oil change.
I have to believe that an awful lot of people just assume that the correct amount is put in, and are driving around with too much oil in there. How critical is it, if one has, say .5 quarts too much in the crankcase ? There's got to be a better system - manufacturers should, at least, make engines that don't call for "fractional" quarts to fill after an oil/filter change.
It's happened to me several times, even by a NJ Lexus shop on my previous car (an ES300). Friends at work have seen it also. I think part of the problem is that a change w/filter might require 4.5 quarts. The auto-fillers might be set to non-fractional amounts, say 5 quarts (or the tech opens 5 quarts and just dumps them all in). You really have to do your own, or check the oil immediately after the oil change.
I have to believe that an awful lot of people just assume that the correct amount is put in, and are driving around with too much oil in there. How critical is it, if one has, say .5 quarts too much in the crankcase ? There's got to be a better system - manufacturers should, at least, make engines that don't call for "fractional" quarts to fill after an oil/filter change.
Last edited by ayonnebay; 12-13-07 at 08:45 AM.
12-14-07, 07:16 PM
#3
Driver
Before I stopped going to my Lexus dealer, my car was overfilled twice in a row. Not only was it overfilled, it was an inch and a half over the "full" line! I'm told that later or earlier LS take more oil than mine ('02). Regardless, I found a garage, brand new, staffed by former Lexus employees, following the Lexus maintenance program, charging 1/2 what a dealership would charge. The only thing I don't get is a wash every time. But I do get to talk to the mechanic while he works on my car, and check the underneath out. Back to the old days.
12-14-07, 07:56 PM
#4
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the filler guns have a setting on them, i think it increases by 1/10th's or something, so it shouldn't really be over filled, unless they are using quart bottles, even then they shouldn't over fill it. Its not much of a problem, it will burn the extra off. Would be agrivated tho if someone was servicing my $60K plus car and followed procedures like that.
12-15-07, 05:13 AM
#5
Super Moderator
keep in mind, that oil sits in its pan. I have even taken off and changed the oil filter a few times after I had already drained and replaced the oil. Not an overly evil thing to do in terms of overfilling, but again not something you would suspect from a trained mechanic.
10-17-08, 07:08 PM
#6
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What happens when an engine is overfilled with oil?
So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing.
Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good.
Well, you did ask.
So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing.
Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good.
Well, you did ask.
10-17-08, 07:25 PM
#7
Overflow?
I think part of the problem is that a change w/filter might require 4.5 quarts. The auto-fillers might be set to non-fractional amounts, say 5 quarts (or the tech opens 5 quarts and just dumps them all in). You really have to do your own, or check the oil immediately after the oil change...
How critical is it, if one has, say .5 quarts too much in the crankcase ? There's got to be a better system - manufacturers should, at least, make engines that don't call for "fractional" quarts to fill after an oil/filter change.
How critical is it, if one has, say .5 quarts too much in the crankcase ? There's got to be a better system - manufacturers should, at least, make engines that don't call for "fractional" quarts to fill after an oil/filter change.
1/2 quart on a vehicle that requires 5 quarts is not that bad, but does anyone here have a DEFINITIVE answer as to how many quarts a 2004 takes? The manual says 4.5 with filter, but I've read some who say it takes as much as 5.5 quarts. I guess I could do 5, then drive and let it sit over night and see how high, or low, the stick is. If I'm over .5, that's not an issue, and if I'm low .5 quart, then I'll just add as that's not much of an issue either.
Anyway, if we can't get a definitive answer, then I'll let everyone know next week as I plan on changing out my engine oil this weekend.
Best.
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10-17-08, 11:42 PM
#8
1/2 quart on a vehicle that requires 5 quarts is not that bad, but does anyone here have a DEFINITIVE answer as to how many quarts a 2004 takes? The manual says 4.5 with filter, but I've read some who say it takes as much as 5.5 quarts. I guess I could do 5, then drive and let it sit over night and see how high, or low, the stick is. If I'm over .5, that's not an issue, and if I'm low .5 quart, then I'll just add as that's not much of an issue either.
Anyway, if we can't get a definitive answer, then I'll let everyone know next week as I plan on changing out my engine oil this weekend.
Best.
Anyway, if we can't get a definitive answer, then I'll let everyone know next week as I plan on changing out my engine oil this weekend.
Best.
I've changed the oil on both my GS430, and LS430 many times (Mobile 1 EP oil/filter). I'm 100% sure the manual is wrong as 4.5Q (or 4.7 cant remember) does not top to correct level. Furthermore, the GS has the same EXACT engine, and requires 5.5... which happens to be correct amount to top it to the fill mark for the LS as well.
Some are not easily convinced, but just my .02cents.
10-18-08, 04:09 AM
#9
Proof in the fill...
Go ahead and try it, thats exactly what i've done in the past.
I've changed the oil on both my GS430, and LS430 many times (Mobile 1 EP oil/filter). I'm 100% sure the manual is wrong as 4.5Q (or 4.7 cant remember) does not top to correct level. Furthermore, the GS has the same EXACT engine, and requires 5.5... which happens to be correct amount to top it to the fill mark for the LS as well.
Some are not easily convinced, but just my .02cents.
I've changed the oil on both my GS430, and LS430 many times (Mobile 1 EP oil/filter). I'm 100% sure the manual is wrong as 4.5Q (or 4.7 cant remember) does not top to correct level. Furthermore, the GS has the same EXACT engine, and requires 5.5... which happens to be correct amount to top it to the fill mark for the LS as well.
Some are not easily convinced, but just my .02cents.
10-18-08, 07:42 AM
#10
Pole Position
ny 2005 takes 5 quarts to reach the center of the dipstick marking with a new filter,, hopefully the stick is correct,,
I had a Ford truck that had a stick marked way off and on the high side,, took three extra quarts if ya went by the stick,,
I had a Ford truck that had a stick marked way off and on the high side,, took three extra quarts if ya went by the stick,,
10-18-08, 11:58 AM
#11
The manuals are never right, I have done alot of oil changes, on all my lexus cars,
I just did my LS and SC, they both take 5.5 quarts to fill up. with just a little less than the "full" mark. ( I check it at least 3 times every oil change )
Over fill half of quart does no harm, it will just brun off, just don't put too much in it.
I just did my LS and SC, they both take 5.5 quarts to fill up. with just a little less than the "full" mark. ( I check it at least 3 times every oil change )
Over fill half of quart does no harm, it will just brun off, just don't put too much in it.
10-18-08, 08:47 PM
#12
What happens when an engine is overfilled with oil?
So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing.
Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good.
Well, you did ask.
So you topped up the engine when it was warm after getting a faulty dipstick reading, or you put too much oil in when you changed it yourself. What's the worst that could happen? Well the problem with this is that the next time the engine is run, the windage in the crankcase and other pressures generated by the oil pump, etc. place a great strain on the seal on the rear main bearing.
Eventually, often much sooner than the ordinary man in the street might expect, the rear main bearing seal ruptures, and the engine becomes a 'leaker'. If you've got a manual gearbox, this means one thing: this oil goes right onto the flywheel and the face of the clutch disc. A lubricated clutch is A Bad Thing. If this still goes unnoticed, the front seal is the next to go, and the engine then becomes a 'gusher' (or to be more colourful, it starts pissing oil all over the place). As well as smothering the clutch with oil from the rear, the oil now coming from the front leak will be neatly distributed about the engine bay as it hits the front pulley - often propelling it out as far as the brake discs. At the same time as this Hollywood disaster movie is unfolding outside the engine, things aren't working out any better on the inside. As you can see from the diagram, the correct oil level is really close to the rotating crank. Overfilling will mean the crank dips into the oil and churns it into a froth. Froth is good on certain types of coffee but not good in an engine. The mixture of aerated oil will be forced into the bearings and in case you didn't know, air is not a lubricant. Typically this means that bearing damage will follow quite rapidly, especially if you are driving on a motorway. You'll know bearing damage when you get it. The engine smells like a garage mechanic cooking over an open flame and the noise coming from the engine is the sort of thing you'd normally hear in vaudeville plays when a piano is pushed down a flight of stairs. As if that all wasn't bad enough, the excess oil gets thrown up into the piston bores where the piston rings have a hard time coping with the excess oil and pressure. It gets into the combustion chamber and some of it will get out into the exhaust system unburned resulting in a nice patina of oil all over the platinum surfaces of your catalytic converter. This renders it utterly useless for good.
Well, you did ask.
10-19-08, 05:39 PM
#13
Okay folks, atleast for an '04 LS430, here's the deal.
1. I let the car drain for 1/2 hour while I mowed the lawn.
2. Removed generic filter (easiest of any car I've done, open the flap, twist the filter, oil right into the pan) and replaced with Toyota OEM filter.
3. Filled up with 4.5 quarts and let it stand for 15 min.
4. Did not crank the engine and the level was at 3/4 between low and high.
5. I started the engine and let it run for about 10 minutes, to operating temp.
6. Let the engine stand for 15 min and the level was at 1/4.
7. I poured the rest of the 5 quart Mobil 1 into the engine (so now 5 quarts in total).
8. Waited another 15 min. and it was up to about the 3/4 (slightly more) level again.
I didn't fill any more, so with this, I can say that another .5 qts. more would have brought it to the "full" line, so 5.5 quarts it is folks. With filter change, if you want it up filled to the top line, then 5.5 quarts.
Out !!!!
1. I let the car drain for 1/2 hour while I mowed the lawn.
2. Removed generic filter (easiest of any car I've done, open the flap, twist the filter, oil right into the pan) and replaced with Toyota OEM filter.
3. Filled up with 4.5 quarts and let it stand for 15 min.
4. Did not crank the engine and the level was at 3/4 between low and high.
5. I started the engine and let it run for about 10 minutes, to operating temp.
6. Let the engine stand for 15 min and the level was at 1/4.
7. I poured the rest of the 5 quart Mobil 1 into the engine (so now 5 quarts in total).
8. Waited another 15 min. and it was up to about the 3/4 (slightly more) level again.
I didn't fill any more, so with this, I can say that another .5 qts. more would have brought it to the "full" line, so 5.5 quarts it is folks. With filter change, if you want it up filled to the top line, then 5.5 quarts.
Out !!!!
10-19-08, 06:15 PM
#14
Okay folks, atleast for an '04 LS430, here's the deal.
1. I let the car drain for 1/2 hour while I mowed the lawn.
2. Removed generic filter (easiest of any car I've done, open the flap, twist the filter, oil right into the pan) and replaced with Toyota OEM filter.
3. Filled up with 4.5 quarts and let it stand for 15 min.
4. Did not crank the engine and the level was at 3/4 between low and high.
5. I started the engine and let it run for about 10 minutes, to operating temp.
6. Let the engine stand for 15 min and the level was at 1/4.
7. I poured the rest of the 5 quart Mobil 1 into the engine (so now 5 quarts in total).
8. Waited another 15 min. and it was up to about the 3/4 (slightly more) level again.
I didn't fill any more, so with this, I can say that another .5 qts. more would have brought it to the "full" line, so 5.5 quarts it is folks. With filter change, if you want it up filled to the top line, then 5.5 quarts.
Out !!!!
1. I let the car drain for 1/2 hour while I mowed the lawn.
2. Removed generic filter (easiest of any car I've done, open the flap, twist the filter, oil right into the pan) and replaced with Toyota OEM filter.
3. Filled up with 4.5 quarts and let it stand for 15 min.
4. Did not crank the engine and the level was at 3/4 between low and high.
5. I started the engine and let it run for about 10 minutes, to operating temp.
6. Let the engine stand for 15 min and the level was at 1/4.
7. I poured the rest of the 5 quart Mobil 1 into the engine (so now 5 quarts in total).
8. Waited another 15 min. and it was up to about the 3/4 (slightly more) level again.
I didn't fill any more, so with this, I can say that another .5 qts. more would have brought it to the "full" line, so 5.5 quarts it is folks. With filter change, if you want it up filled to the top line, then 5.5 quarts.
Out !!!!
You do exactly what I do!
Except I fill it up all the way, so 5.5 it is.
10-19-08, 06:37 PM
#15
I just finished changing the oil and filter on my '03 LS430. I dropped 4 and a half quarts in, dipstick reading was halfway between the low and high marks. Started the car and let it idle for about 60 seconds. Shut it off, let it sit for a few minutes and re-read the dipstick. Now it read just at the low mark. Added another 1/4 quart, restarted the car and let it idle for another 60 seconds. This time it read right in the middle of the high and low marks. Perfect. So I got roughly 4.75 Quarts to fill it.
Then I go inside and open the Owners Manual to page 351 :
LUBRICATION SYSTEM
Oil capcity
Drain and refill
with filter 4.5L (4.8qt., 4.0 Imp. Qt.)
without filter 4.2L (4.4qt., 3.7 Imp. qt.)
BANG! Dead on. Some people on here must be thinking that "L" means quart? No, "qt." means quart. And Imperial Quart ain't what you want either.
MTA: If you are filling your engine till it reads at the high mark then you are on the verge of overfilling. In between the two marks is correct.
Then I go inside and open the Owners Manual to page 351 :
LUBRICATION SYSTEM
Oil capcity
Drain and refill
with filter 4.5L (4.8qt., 4.0 Imp. Qt.)
without filter 4.2L (4.4qt., 3.7 Imp. qt.)
BANG! Dead on. Some people on here must be thinking that "L" means quart? No, "qt." means quart. And Imperial Quart ain't what you want either.
MTA: If you are filling your engine till it reads at the high mark then you are on the verge of overfilling. In between the two marks is correct.
Last edited by campisi; 10-19-08 at 06:40 PM.