khoop

I'm starting to shop for a 2003-2004 LS430. Don't really care too much about the Nav system (wouldn't mind the '04 back cam though), don't want the UL package, but I'm undecided about the Mark Levinson system. Is it really that much better? I see plenty of posts about the reliability of the system, so is that really a concern?

I'd appreciate any words of wisdom. My profession is a recording engineer, so I do want a great sounding system, but I'm not moved by the sometimes overhyped audiophile industry.

jac430

For most of the people the ML-system works perfectly.
The navigation is better than I originally had thought myself, so I wouldn't discard it on beforehand.

More or less the same applies to the back-up camera. I came to value this a lot.

I would not worry too much over the reliability of the ML system.
If you require ear shattering levels, it may not be up to your taste.
If you want decent sound with low distortion, it certainly is up to par however.

The sound system in my previous car was about as good as the ML system, and that car was from 1992 with a specially designed Philips sound system.
I even prefer the Philips/Renault steering wheel controls over that of the Lexus, but that may very well be a matter of taste and getting used to.

A further matter to consider might be resale value. I personally would not have bought a car without the navigation system.
Updating the DVDs is quite expensive though. On my Nokia phone it is for free.....

Summing up:
The navigation system is very fast and certainly not bad.
The back-up camera is useful for me.
The ML sound system is adequate with good sound quality and works flawlessly.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jac

CarGuy89

The ML system is tuned for clarity (say jazz or classical) rather than bass-in-your chest (say rap). Depends what music you normally listen to. While the ML does seem to have a few problems (11 speakers, something is more likely to go wrong), it really is (to me anyway) just like any other factory audio system...decent enough. I would suggest trying out a car with the standard system and then trying one out with ML, preferably side by side so you will know if ML is right for you or not. Also, keep in mind the 04s came with bluetooth with nav, which is very handy and decreases the time spent not looking at the road.

khoop

Thanks for the replies!

So - 11 speakers. Do you know the breakdown of them? The last thing I am looking for is some psuedo-surround DSP system. I like accurate and balanced.

Wish I had access to a ML and non ML 03 in my area, but not many options for used LS430's in Nashville.

- kent

Bocatrip

The majority of the ML problems lies with the speakers, especially the subwoofer. The foam disintegrates over time and rattles and buzzing begins. Door speakers are prone as well. I haven't heard to much about the system itself failing other than instances when the factory speakers are changed with aftermarkets that may not be compatable with the amp.

caddyowner

Search your area for any LS430 within 100 miles to find cars to compare. They may not be cars you want, but you can decide what trim level, stereo, etc. you want. Once you see and drive enough cars (leave your checkbook at home), you can decide what you have to have, don't want, and don't care yes or no.

This used car place supposedly has two, an 02 and 04, one with ML and one without.

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dd...arch_type=both

Everything within 100 miles of Nashville:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search..._type=distance

Good luck in your search.

thinkin

At least on the '04+ (not sure about '01'-'03), anything without the ML is a pretty heavily decontented package. That may be to your tastes and if so no problem, but be aware if you want any of the goodies the higher packages offer you're going to end up with the ML, like it or not.

Personally, I like it a lot for a stock system. I think you'd have to work very hard indeed to achieve the same overall revealing clarity with aftermarket. As has been mentioned, if heavily EQ'd and bass-heavy music is your thing or you intend to feed it crappy sources, you probably won't like it very much.

khoop

Caddyowner - thanks for the links to the local LS430's! I had a cap of 18k, so these didn't show up when I searched. I'm planning on driving up there this week to check the sound of each out.

I used to own a '98 LS400 before I sold it to save $$$, then went to an Audi A8. Love that car, but HATE the repair bills. We've had enough, so we're coming home...

Any other words of wisdom for you guys on getting a used LS400? I've read enough to steer clear of the air suspension. Anything else to avoid?

- kent

Jabberwock

I am seriously old school about cars but I do love up-to-date technology and employ it whenever possible. I have a premium level LS with no inbuilt Nav, no cheesy ML cassette stereo, and no back-cam. I do use the latest Garmin Nuvi with 2011 maps, lifetime traffic, speed limit alerts, junction/lane guidance, etc. And I have also installed an Ipod interface into the standard LS radio - works great. If I was actually more motivated I'd replace the current stereo with one of the latest double din units (that do everything and play the latest media - dvd, ipod,etc). I may do it eventually because I really dislike looking at that cassette deck in the LS console.

The ML system in the LS is basically out dated hype - but if you love playing your Dolby 3 tape cassettes in the car you will be in hog heaven : )

I think in 04-06 the ML option is also tied to the backup camera, and to the hopelessly obsolete inbuilt Lexus Nav (see Garmin 3790).

So the ML on 04s comes with lots of stuff that is of questionable value at best but its very expensive to fix if any of it breaks. The only part of these options that is not out dated and obsolete vis a vis 2011 is the backup camera. I personally don't need or want a back up camera in my car - if I was driving the super douche edition Escalade - well then maybe so : )

Having said all that lots of very smart, perfectly reasonable folks on the forum absolutely love the inbuilt NAV, ML , etc on the car. I think the stuff is crap, plain and simple, but its just one guy's very biased point of view - an opinion - just that and nothing more. If everybody felt that same way about this stuff it would be a pretty boring forum.

CarGuy89

You're right about air suspension, it is expensive when it needs to be replaced. While the LS430 is one of the most reliable cars out there (6 months and absolutely perfect!), it does have a lot of electronics that could potentially break. The less you have, the more reliable the car will be.

That being said, the chances of normal items breaking is relatively slim. Consider what you would want. I am assuming you're not going to be chauffeured around (Otherwise you would be looking for an LS460 or LS600 right?), so the backseat toys of the UL might not be a huge priority. I liked the features of the nav system so I went with Modern Luxury. I find that ML is a very driver focused package, giving only toys to the driver. You may also like the extra leather inside. For that, you will want CL (you get a nicer interior material + radar cruise and laminated glass, but without the hassles of air suspension.). If you don't like the nav system and don't care for the added toys, go for the basic premium trim. It still gives heated/cooled seats and parking sensors.

What are you leaning towards (if sound system wasn't a consideration)?

khoop

Ok - pardon my ignorance, but...

What extra leather is part of the Modern Luxury package? Or were you saying thats part of the Custom Luxury Package?

Jabberwock - I didn't think you'd be able to swap out head units with newer model ones....

CarGuy89

Extra leather is part of custom lux. Modern lux essentially just adds nav on top of premium.

Here is a pic of my interior (dash and most of the doors are a soft plastic, but plastic nonetheless):

CarGuy89

^For comparison sake, here is a member who had custom lux:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...om-luxury.html

Muti007

The ML stereo is really not that good. I wanted it because I wanted the Nav and rear view camera, so I wanted the head unit integration, clean look of OEM, 6 disk in dash etc. The speakers and the sub are the weak point and Ill soon be replacing all of them.

If the NAV is something you dont even want, Id skip the Levinson altogether.

khoop

CarGuy,

I'm gonna check out both sound systems, and that will help me make my decision. I typically love all the bells and whistles, but since I work from home, I don't want to spend extra money on features I don't really need - I probably will put 3-4k miles a year on it, TOPS.

So - if the ML audio sounds noticeably better to me, I'll probably look for a Modern Luxury equipped 430 with 95-115k miles on it. If not, Premium with parking assist will be the route I go.

I just want a reliable car as our 2nd family car, and my wife HATED my A8.