how you like your ML stereo system?
02-28-11, 05:48 PM
#1
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how you like your ML stereo system?
i have a 02 UL package LS430. I somehow feel the factory ML stereo is not as good as the stock stereo from my IS300!!
is it me hallucinating or are the speakers underpowered? or i just got a bad amp? cuz i feel the speakers are not producing the sound quality they suppose to have given its the flagship from lexus...
any input??
is it me hallucinating or are the speakers underpowered? or i just got a bad amp? cuz i feel the speakers are not producing the sound quality they suppose to have given its the flagship from lexus...
any input??
03-01-11, 08:30 AM
#3
Instructor
Just to be clear, quality is not the same as volume. In my opinion, the 2002 LS430 ML system produces high quality (meaning accurate) audio, which, when fed with a high quality audio source, reproduces the audio source as the source's sound engineer intended - no more, no less.
My 2002 LS430UL ML system compares well to my SVSound SBS-01 + PB10-NSD home theatre system and my THX-certified Logitech Z-560 system, both of which produce fairly accurate sound (linear frequency response - not warm or bright or otherwise colored). FYI the Z-560 subwoofer is a little boomy and not as accurate as the SVSound or the ML sub.
I find the ML sound is very balanced and accurate with all equalizer and fader settings at the default dead center positions. It sounds like the ML system was designed to factor in the shape of the car's interior, as well as the reverberation characteristics (ie. accurate audio in both time and frequency domains). The cross-over frequencies/blending between tweeters, mid-range, and the subwoofer sound like they put in a pretty good engineering effort.
The ML sub is not as powerful as the SVSound, so you won't be able to push it to room-shaking volumes, but the accuracy and the blending in with the satellites is excellent.
I listen to DTS Master Audio movies decoded in hardware by my receiver, connected via HDMI on my HTPC, so the signal is all-digital going into the receiver. I listen to FLAC audio files (ripped at 100% quality) and MP3s (encoded with LAME 3.97 -V2 --vbr-new) on the HTPC and computer, so the sources feeding my speakers are pretty much as clean as they get. This gives me a good basis for comparison across the different systems.
If you are listening to AM or FM radio, the quality will be horrible. If you using a tape deck adapter, the quality should be decent but there may be high frequency hiss due to the analog, mechanical nature of the tape components. This can be alleviated by enabling Dolby NR (but introduces an inaccurate frequency response) or you can turn up the volume on your audio source and reducing the car's volume (but may introduce distortion).
For maximum quality, use the CD changer with legitimate CDs, or burn CDs using FLAC source files, or install an iPod integration solution like the VAISTech and load your iPod with M4A files encoded from WAV files (using NeroAACEnc.exe) that were decoded from FLAC files (using FLAC Front End). Alternatively, it may be easier to source MP3s encoded with LAME 3.97 -V2 --vbr-new, and while not technically as accurate as FLAC, it is certainly good enough.
If you are using legitimate CDs and still think there is a problem, check your equalizer settings. If everything is flat and it sounds wrong to you overall, listen to your tweeters, mid-range speakers, and subs one at a time, using short music loop. Verify that each speaker component works fine individually. Check that no one replaced your ML speakers/amp/sub with non-ML/aftermarket components.
Another cause could be that you are accustomed to odd equalizer settings or audio being colored/inaccurate in a specific way (ie. systems designed for high volume, with low-effort put into cross-over design, frequency/time domain calibration, and speaker placement). If you don't have accurate reference points, your expectation from the Lexus flagship would be skewed.
My 2002 LS430UL ML system compares well to my SVSound SBS-01 + PB10-NSD home theatre system and my THX-certified Logitech Z-560 system, both of which produce fairly accurate sound (linear frequency response - not warm or bright or otherwise colored). FYI the Z-560 subwoofer is a little boomy and not as accurate as the SVSound or the ML sub.
I find the ML sound is very balanced and accurate with all equalizer and fader settings at the default dead center positions. It sounds like the ML system was designed to factor in the shape of the car's interior, as well as the reverberation characteristics (ie. accurate audio in both time and frequency domains). The cross-over frequencies/blending between tweeters, mid-range, and the subwoofer sound like they put in a pretty good engineering effort.
The ML sub is not as powerful as the SVSound, so you won't be able to push it to room-shaking volumes, but the accuracy and the blending in with the satellites is excellent.
I listen to DTS Master Audio movies decoded in hardware by my receiver, connected via HDMI on my HTPC, so the signal is all-digital going into the receiver. I listen to FLAC audio files (ripped at 100% quality) and MP3s (encoded with LAME 3.97 -V2 --vbr-new) on the HTPC and computer, so the sources feeding my speakers are pretty much as clean as they get. This gives me a good basis for comparison across the different systems.
If you are listening to AM or FM radio, the quality will be horrible. If you using a tape deck adapter, the quality should be decent but there may be high frequency hiss due to the analog, mechanical nature of the tape components. This can be alleviated by enabling Dolby NR (but introduces an inaccurate frequency response) or you can turn up the volume on your audio source and reducing the car's volume (but may introduce distortion).
For maximum quality, use the CD changer with legitimate CDs, or burn CDs using FLAC source files, or install an iPod integration solution like the VAISTech and load your iPod with M4A files encoded from WAV files (using NeroAACEnc.exe) that were decoded from FLAC files (using FLAC Front End). Alternatively, it may be easier to source MP3s encoded with LAME 3.97 -V2 --vbr-new, and while not technically as accurate as FLAC, it is certainly good enough.
If you are using legitimate CDs and still think there is a problem, check your equalizer settings. If everything is flat and it sounds wrong to you overall, listen to your tweeters, mid-range speakers, and subs one at a time, using short music loop. Verify that each speaker component works fine individually. Check that no one replaced your ML speakers/amp/sub with non-ML/aftermarket components.
Another cause could be that you are accustomed to odd equalizer settings or audio being colored/inaccurate in a specific way (ie. systems designed for high volume, with low-effort put into cross-over design, frequency/time domain calibration, and speaker placement). If you don't have accurate reference points, your expectation from the Lexus flagship would be skewed.
03-01-11, 09:13 AM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
I think a lot of it depends on your age and music preference. Since the LS is geared towards an older audience, the sound system is super crisp at playing things like classical or jazz music (more instrumental stuff). I am a younger guy so the stuff I listen to (mainly hip/hop and rap) is bass heavy and doesn't quite sound as good (though not bad at all) as the classical music the system was tuned for. However, I like to keep my music inside of the car (I rarely exceed volume 11 or 12) so the ML system is very adequate for me.
That said, there are plenty of aftermarket options if you want a bit more bass kick in your system. Just search around.
That said, there are plenty of aftermarket options if you want a bit more bass kick in your system. Just search around.
03-01-11, 10:35 AM
#5
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i definitely agree with you. carguy89.
my ml system does sound good and very full and surround but for hiphop rap it isnt the best choice of system. my frend has q45 with bose system and it doesnt have as many speakers like us but his bass has alot more thump for oem system in comparison to my lexus.
my ml system does sound good and very full and surround but for hiphop rap it isnt the best choice of system. my frend has q45 with bose system and it doesnt have as many speakers like us but his bass has alot more thump for oem system in comparison to my lexus.
03-01-11, 09:00 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
The ML system sounds fantastic. I think it sounds better than the 07 is250 system i had. I have the 04 ls430 now and its way more clear. I just set it to bass -1 , mid 0, and treble plus 1. And its sounds perfect.
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03-02-11, 07:08 PM
#9
Pole Position
I love the overall balance of the ML system. Not perfect but very good. Definitely not a thumpin' system, but surprisingly smooth midrange, upper bass and lower treble which are always trouble spots in mobile audio.
That said I think the quality of the LS430's NVH isolation and soundproofing contributes much more than the components. The beauty of the sound system in the LS430 is not how it sounds sitting in the garage but the fact that you can still hear subtleties and enjoy the music while rolling over a bad quality road at 60mph. Try that in an IS300 with any system.
That said I think the quality of the LS430's NVH isolation and soundproofing contributes much more than the components. The beauty of the sound system in the LS430 is not how it sounds sitting in the garage but the fact that you can still hear subtleties and enjoy the music while rolling over a bad quality road at 60mph. Try that in an IS300 with any system.
03-02-11, 08:04 PM
#10
The ML has excellent instrumental timbre. As another post said, quality does not equal volume/bass/boominess. Sound quality is the ability to accurately reproduce the sound of non-electronically-amplified instruments. The best way to hear this is to listen to a quality recording (such as by reference recordings, etc.) of a small instrumental group such as a quartet, chamber music, or good opera recording. Listen to how the notes from instruments such as a grand piano or cello decay. If you close your eyes (hopefully when not moving!), is the sound believable? Can you tell that the violins are sitting to your left? This is what the ML system is designed for. It's the best sounding mobile audio system I've heard, but still can't match a quality home system (of course, comparing a home system to a mobile system is comparing apples to oranges).
Now if your car is noisy, as was the case w/ my old Toyota truck w/ modified exhaust, you need lots of volume and lower frequencies to overcome the car's noise. Sound "quality" goes out the window. I've noticed that most car audio systems sound very boomy. That may be okay if it's trying to reproduce the sound of a drum machine/synthesizer, and the bass might be clean & tight, but that's not natural acoustic sound. In nutshell, the ML system is really designed for classical/instrumental music (the kind of music the average 65 yr old buyer of the LS listens to), not pop, metal, or rap. For those, you're better off getting an off-the-shelf kenwood/alpine/clarion system.
As I also have the ML in my LX470, I have to say it sounds much better in the LS. Part of it is the better sound insulation of the vehicle, part is having more speakers, part is having less interior volume and better acoustic shape. With the sedan, you can take advantage of the trunk and rear deck w/ sound bouncing off the rear window that you can't do in a SUV.
Now if your car is noisy, as was the case w/ my old Toyota truck w/ modified exhaust, you need lots of volume and lower frequencies to overcome the car's noise. Sound "quality" goes out the window. I've noticed that most car audio systems sound very boomy. That may be okay if it's trying to reproduce the sound of a drum machine/synthesizer, and the bass might be clean & tight, but that's not natural acoustic sound. In nutshell, the ML system is really designed for classical/instrumental music (the kind of music the average 65 yr old buyer of the LS listens to), not pop, metal, or rap. For those, you're better off getting an off-the-shelf kenwood/alpine/clarion system.
As I also have the ML in my LX470, I have to say it sounds much better in the LS. Part of it is the better sound insulation of the vehicle, part is having more speakers, part is having less interior volume and better acoustic shape. With the sedan, you can take advantage of the trunk and rear deck w/ sound bouncing off the rear window that you can't do in a SUV.
03-03-11, 08:00 AM
#11
Pole Position
I thought my ML was just so so until I started feeding it quality material,, should have know better as is the same with all my home audio gear,, no amount of upper level gear can overcome medium recordings, it REALLY lets ya know they are bad,,
don't blame the gear until you know your feeding it great material,,
Derry
don't blame the gear until you know your feeding it great material,,
Derry
03-03-11, 08:52 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
I thought my ML was just so so until I started feeding it quality material,, should have know better as is the same with all my home audio gear,, no amount of upper level gear can overcome medium recordings, it REALLY lets ya know they are bad,,
don't blame the gear until you know your feeding it great material,,
Derry
don't blame the gear until you know your feeding it great material,,
Derry
03-03-11, 10:12 AM
#14
I would beg to differ the imaging is way off to me. I can totally hear where each range of frequency is coming from. Too much separation with little to no time alignment. The sound stage is off center and does not feel as it should. The production of sound is ok and as suspected the OE speakers were def not high quality.
03-03-11, 08:02 PM
#15
He's saying that a good audio system will reveal the flaws in a sub-par recording. OTOH, with a poor quality system, you won't be able to decipher much of a difference between a so-so recording and a great recording. There are certain brands that are generally good. I like Reference Recordings the best. Next to that, I like the Dorian label, then Harmonia Mundi (UK). The ones like Deutche Grammaphon (sp?) and Philips are average. The legendary recording is "Jazz at the Pawn Shop," (Proprius) a live recording in a bar in Stockholm in 1976, IIRC. The sound quality is amazing. You can even hear glasses klinking in the background. This is the Stereophile magazine standard for critical component reviews. I also like Nojima plays Liszt from Reference Recordings. When you close your eyes, it's almost like the piano is in your living room! (I use B&W matrix studio monitors at home :-) ). The ML system is one of the great things about lexus. My sister's BMW 330 has an "upgraded" factory Blaupunkt system...it can't hold a candle to the ML. I used to run a soundstream 5-ch amp w/ a/d/s 3-ways in my old toyota truck. The amp/speakers were good, but the head unit (Alpine) sucked like most units...boomy bass, irritatingly-high treble, suppressed mid-ranges.