slclexus

First, I want to admit this is somewhat of a rant; but it's a rant based in fact and does not come from some blue-veiner hysteric. It comes from a guy who's simply fed up with the way Lexus is treating his business.

My girlfriend has an '03 ES300, great car for what it is: essentially a slightly more luxurious Camry. Back in December of 2009 we decided, with a lot of help from you guys, that a move up to an LS430 would be smart.

Coincidentally the GF had her 300 in the Lexus shop for some minor repairs. When she picked it up the service guy didn't really answer her questions about what they fixed. I got in touch with the service guy and he was a flaming a-hole. As a result, I contacted the general manager and described what had happened. He acted somewhat concerned, but not on a level consistent with a so-called marque brand like Lexus.

I let that incident go, and asked this GM if he could help us find a nice 430. He said sure. Two months go by and nothing. I call the guy and ask what's up; he said he totally forgot about what he promised us. Said he'd get back on it. Four more months go by and nothing, then he calls one night and says he has a 430 coming in. The next day he sold it before we could even make it down to see it. Now I'm not saying he should have "held" the car for our perusal. But this ignited the simmering irritation we we're developing for this dealership.

Then the GF's 300 needed a part. I call the parts desk. Within seconds I expected to hear the banjo from Deliverance crank up. Totally incoherent and angry-at-the-world parts guy; again consistent with our treatment from this dealer.

I decide enough is enough; we get ahold of the district Lexus guy, who talks a good game but does nothing to move any of this forward. He says he needs to get someone else on the problem. Another week goes by and nothing. GF calls and is now fairly irate. Nothing but apologies from this new district guy, but to this point, no action either.

Now this is getting long, so I'll cut to the chase: Is this the way Lexus and their dealers treat customers? What have been your experiences with Lexus dealers? Where's the so-called luxury brand treatment? I got far better treatment across the board from a Ford dealership with my old 5.0.

For that matter, I get treated like comparative royalty whenever I walk into an Ikea or a Best Buy.

And is CPO really worth the premium in price you pay buying the car through a dealer? Or is smarter to find a 430 on our own and buy an aftermarket warranty?

By the way, any local Google search of this dealership returns similarly bad reports. And they own the only two Lexus franchises in the area.

Finally, are we expecting too much from a Lexus dealer? Is all their advertising and attempts to build premium-brand status just smoke and mirrors? Please you guys ... tell me this is an isolated crappy dealer and not representative of the whole.

Thanks for listening to this noob.

Marc

sojah

iTrader: (1)

well first off i love the cars, hate most of the stateside dealerships but love the cars. i try my hardest to not even set foot on the lex dealerships property. i had similar experiences a couple years ago and have been back like 2 times since and paid them exactly zero of my dollars. they are a shady business if you ask me and in my opinion the three lex dealerships in my area that i have dealt with are ONLY CONCERNED WITH THE SALE OF A NEW CAR and nothing more. as long as you know this i think you will not have your hopes up and except otherwise...

i have had much worse rants of my issues on this board in the past so simmer down and rest assured that you are not alone.

just buy a used lex at an independent dealer or private seller (i don't mess with cpo cuz its a waste of money) and get it serviced by an independent mechanic who knows what the hell they are doing, off duty lex mechanic, or toyota mechanic for a lot less $$ and hassle.

good luck,

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Runs the range from fantastic to crappy and depending who and what is encountered, the results same. When I was first looking for a 2-GS, the three dealerships I had contacted all had called me about prospective model availability and prices. One sales guy was on a constant hunt and I got calls about 2 days apart about with what he'd found. The one dealer I went in expecting to buy a GS but mid-stream on the lot, he showed me the LS as a comparison. (Had no clue about the model but wife liked the car and I did too.)

With CPO...depends on your comfort level of a dealer/factory type warranty or what you can do for independent service on your own. The majority if well maintained will not be a problem to begin with. Looking at the detailed history of the one we were considering, it had been in for 3 warranty issues and those occurred early on within the first 5K miles. Then on...regular maintenance. I was pretty confident in making the purchase decision. The $2.5K CPO premium vs. our no warranty purchase, I put that into the regular maintenance over the next handful of years. So for me, it wasn't a big deal to not get CPO.

Dealer service, I've had my share of incidents all resolved to my satisfaction. Though if you read around the forum, there are those who even at the same dealer have not been happy. I was sitting next to a guy who was appalled at his treatment, though I didn't think much was wrong. His oil change took about an hour longer than anticipated. He told me he never had problems at his MB dealer.

Since this same owner has both local Lexus lots, might have to go further out then. Even dealing with a different person can be night-day but if the higher up's haven't been helpful...walk.

Jabberwock

Dealer quality seems to vary a lot by town apparently. Sewell Lexus sales, service, and parts in Dallas is excellent based on my experience. Woodfield Lexus in Chicago sales is excellent base don my experience.

In terms of a Lexus CPO being worth it - that also seems to vary based on local market. Some of it depends on popularity of used Lexus in your location. I can tell you in the local DFW market, buying a used Lexus is EXTREMELY popular. Dealers sell everyone they get very fast. So much so that the 6 local Lexus dealers all buy the best LS430s they can find at the car auctions in other regions (Florida, California, etc) and then ship them into DFW and sell as used CPO cars. They also prep and CPO the nicer local LS430 trades. And they send the beat up LS 430 dogs or issue cars to the auction where the third party sellers buy them and sell them at slightly lower prices and non-CPO.

So at least in DFW area when I was looking for a mint condition, low mile LS, they were just not available from third party sellers or the other non-Lexus dealers at the quality and condition level that I was looking for. And there were almost no private sales at all in DFW on mint condition LS430s - only high mile models or beater mobiles seemed to be for sale. So in the end, after 3-4 months of looking, I ended up buying a mint condition, low mile CPO LS430 at a Lexus dealer.

DDLexus

I disagree completely with this statement. I spent several hours on the phone and took a trip to Sewell in Dallas to look at and buy a CPO LS430. I was shown the before and after photos before I left (in low res mind you). The before photos showed a seriously mistreated 2004 LS430 UL, which I was assured would be revitalized and appear to be mint. They spent a few grand on the restoration and it still had cosmetic problems. They "certified" it, as they do almost every car on their lot. Sewell is the CPO king and will try to make money were they can. They know what they're doing, trying to turn a lemon into limeaide. Which 80% of the population will accept.

With the higher volumes of Lexus cars being sold, the personal experience Lexus dealerships once provided is GONE. I think the concept was good in the 90s, but you can't expect a high-volume dealer to stay grounded for long.

As others have said, after the sale, you're just another chump getting in the way of a profitable new car sale.

DDLexus

This was some of the rough areas of the car before they reconditioned and certified it. While most of the interior cosmetics were resolved, the paint and bodywork didn't meet my requirements, and certainly shouldn't have been deemed a CPO in my opinion.

mewhee

Hi Marc -

You've been given some pretty good advice above so allow me to throw in my two cents. You have every right to 'rant' although I read your post as more of a "This is not what I expect from a Lexus dealer, or am I overreacting?" tome. And no, you're not overreacting, rather saying it like it is from firsthand experience. Thanks for the write up.

I've owned several Lexus's going back to my first 1990 LS400 in '93. It was used - private party, corp. exec car - but only had 14k on it and perfect in every other way. Took it into the SF Bay Area dealer who'd originally sold it to the firm I bought it from and was treated like absolute royalty including a gratis detailing as a welcome gift. Have never forgotten that (and that was the best $100. Lexus could have spent on a customer because I've been a loyal fan ever since). From then on, I'd take it in for service on the way to a business trip and they'd give me a ride to the airport AND pick me up upon returning, all on the house - well, almost as I realize they made up for some of it in packed maintenance/service charges. Bottom line - I was in Lexus heaven.

Well, unfortunately, I'm afraid those days are gone. That's all changed w/ the service aspect gradually dwindling down to what I'd call a step above the norm but not a big step. You obviously have not been treated well, even after talking to the so-called higher ups. You might want to step up a notch to the corporate level, as I'm sure someone at the USA headquarters would be interested in what you've had to deal with. As a word of advice, maintain a 'voice of reason' demeanor just as you did in your write-up here in the forum and you might get at least a little satisfaction in knowing you've done the right thing and maybe, just maybe, done a fellow Lexus owner a favor, too.

Good luck and don't forget, a Lexus is still one fantastic mechanical marvel so don't let the negative dealer experience turn you completely away. Fwiw, my last two Lexus purchases were both this Spring - one from an Acura dealer on Ebay and another on a private party Craigslist listing. Both turned out to be what I'd characterize as very positive buying experiences - ymmv ;-)

Good driving -

Will in the O.C.

ghenley

Dealer experiences vary greatly. There are 2 in my area that are owned by the same company. I go to the one that is out-of-the way because the closest one is terrible. The one that is further away has done a much better job work-wise and customer service-wise. But, I also take my LS 400 to an independent most often.

Greg

usermel

....because our two dealership is also owned by one company! Had a bad experience about 10 years ago then another 8 years ago! What I learned is loyalty doesnt exist. What does exist in business is good business and bad. What you experienced was clearly an example of a dealer that doesnt practice good business with all there customers. I know folks who go to the local dealer here that tell me of excellent treatment for there whole 15 years or more or less dealing with the local dealer.

For me its been bad and good, not all bad and not all good. That said, I never forgot the bad treatment. I will never buy from that dealer again. Yes, I get service done there but, wont buy a car from them. Yes, they have a decent(not great) service department. I have thought about going back to Benz. They treated me perfectly. Ive never heard complaints about treatment there nor have I been treated bad there. Acura is were my lady goes due to her owning one and they stink in treatment and Lexus is good and bad.

I guess Lexus is still learning across the board how to treat clients and future potential car buyers like Benz and BMW do as well as Audi/Jag!!! Some members will attack you because they are fortunate to deal with good dealerships. These members dont realize there are bad Lexus dealers out there. I do! At the same time I know of some good ones. We just have to hope we come across a good one and if we dont either cope with the bad and dont take it personal and deal with it as business only or, change car brands to attain the treatment we feel we deserve when purchasing a luxury auto!

That said, I hope the best for you and suggest you dont allow there treatment to decide what to buy. Lexus the CAR itself is great. I spend no time at the dealer, I just do services every 5,000 miles and take care of wear and tear when I do services so Im not effected by the crumby treatment. I learned over time to never confuse business with how Im treated. Even if there nice remember, they dont really like you!!! HAHAHHAHAHA! L.G.N.M

Jabberwock

All I can do is speak from my direct experience. I visited every one of the Lexus Dealer in DFW area multiple times in a 3-4 month time frame testing driving perhaps 35 different LS430s. In addition I visited multiple other non Lexus and 3rd party independent dealers that had LS430s for sale. In every case the non Lexus dealer cars were either high mile jobs or had issues. Sewell Dallas consistently had the highest quality CPO cars but unfortunately they never got a truly mint car in with low miles that I wanted. I ended up flying to Chicago to buy my LS. I realized that if I wanted a truly mint like new car I would have to get a low mile car. In my experience most people are such pigs that by the time most of these cars get 20k on them they already had too much interior and exterior wear and tear for me.

AlexusAnja

The thing with service is... "is there competition?" In this case, meaning from another Lexus dealer that might within an arms reach of another? I live in an area where I'm about 20 miles from any of four Lexus dealers. That mean I can get the pick of which one will get my business and I think each knows it.

I get coupons, when I go for the occasion service they'll throw in little things for free (not the donuts), and they don't even blink an eye for giving me a loaner. Each has been courteous and knowledgable mostly.

I mean if you're going to a dealer that's the only Lexus dealer in town or anywhere close to 50 miles... then service might not be so good.

StanVanDam

On Monday I paid a local dealership $106/hr for 1 hour of labor to diagnose my P0155 problem (O2 sensor heater circuit failure). Figured they would test the connectors coming from the sensor per service manual (measure resistance of terminals across the O2's heater, should be 11-16 Ohms @ 20C), the connection from the ECM (9-14 volts across the heater pin and ground), and the current draw of the heater (< 2 amps at any time and > 0.25 amps when heater runs at 11.5V).

The service advisor said all they did was plug in the Techstream, cleared the temporary code, and observed O2 sensor readings and said it was normal. However, I already knew the O2 sensor wasn't the problem, the heater circuit for the sensor was.

Their work effort seems pretty poor to me.. couldn't they follow the official diagnostic steps? They didn't even check the harnesses. There are clear steps to follow for P0155. Seems like I wasted $106 on some tech watching the O2 sensor readings on a laptop for an hour.

Anyone in Ontario/Quebec should look into independent shops like Bullock City or T-Lex. Both are in Markham and charge less for the same work.

usermel

DDlexus and Alexusanja made great points as did all the members who gave input. Loved the comment DD made about after you buy, your just a person in the way of a potential sale! To us the customer its a car we own to the salesman and dealership its another trick to sell a product to. We can forget this is business and in business theres no friends or true like for us. Alexusanja stated another key factor in the fat how many dealers are in your metro and that counts big. Competition makes people attentive. Here in Va Beach/Norfolk,VA we have one dealer. Heck, I was told after buying 4 Lexus that if I wanted money of a car they wouldnt and was told if I dont they would have issue doing service on my car!!!

Never forgot this happened to me. Yes, I do my service there but, its business not personal and I will buy out of town and come back and have them service my car after that comment I made it a point to do service there to see if he would keep his word to not service my Lexus'! I decided not to make myself pay and buy another make because of rude people. Also, had friends that got free items they never gave me. So sometimes its favoritism by people that either like you or dont.

I was not liked very well while others were and I imagine that intelligence played a part as well. They thought I would fall for the no money of the price while they gave others discounts(I later found this out)! Its sometimes just luck of the draw as good people do good things and get rich of the customers and bad people are just bad and decide who they like and give them breaks instead of treating all customers like they matter. The local Va Beach/Norfolk dealer didnt practice this with me and heck, at the time I was young and had the $ to burn. Now Im WISER with money so, the mindset has changed! I'll never buy from the V a Beach Lexus dealer again!!! L.G.N.M

amcdonal86

Don't you get it?? They just want your money, at any cost!

I've had terrible experiences with Lexus dealerships (in fact, in my list of dealership service, they come dead last out of 5 other marques I've had).

usermel

Also, I have thought about going to Benz again because they treated me better than Lexus by miles. They have a touch of class Lexus doesnt at all there dealerships, not as reliable a car but, customer service there was amazing. Went to Benz after a salesman left Lexus for Benz and he sold me my first BEnz, WOW. The treatment was totally different and the service department was a dream as well.

Again, Im with Lexus because of the car, not the sales department nor the service department. Heck my last service at 105,000 they were supposed to do a vacuum and outside wash after my over $300 service and didnt even vacuum and had skipped it the last 4 services in a row. I complained this time but, ironically, Ive noticed a slip after the economy got worse and worse at Lexus, may be worker moral and effecting job performance, just a thought!! L.G.N.M