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04-06 Sealed Transmission fluid change interval? (The Mother thread)

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Old 12-30-13, 07:16 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by karasdad View Post
My 2004 LS430 has been pretty reliable and I am not adverse to listening to my mechanic. He did a complete flush and replace with non Toyota ATF product called BG full synthetic ATF at 90K. they have all the equipment to do this kind of stuff and the price is $8.73/qt, about half the price of the Toyota WTF which I had used earlier in a drain and top off. 16 qts was $140 and labor was $116 so it was cheaper. Seems to run fine, been on it for 5K miles and can't sense any difference.
Well, Toyota says not to change it, and you change it with non Toyota ATF and do a complete flush too. You "may" have saved some money .... time will tell.
Glad hear you are not having any problems. I would never do a transmission flush on ANY car again after losing an Audi after doing one a long time ago.
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Old 12-30-13, 04:18 PM   #137
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Aisin engineers do say change the fluid. It was designed to be changed. It is not a lifetime fluid if you plan on getting 200k+ miles out of the transmission. Bad idea to leave the fluid. You will have to replace the transmission prematurely. Take a look at the lab results posted in the link to the other thread posted on the previous page. I'm actually convinced Toyota did some of this to keep them from having to provide certain warranty issues and liabilities.
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Old 01-09-14, 12:50 PM   #138
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This is my anecdotal story. 2004 UL with 65k, never touched the fluid. Opened it up for the first time and did the flush with the machine. The old fluid was black, not brown, not dark red, but black. I have full service records from the PO and noticed her Lexus dealer never advised the PO for a trans fluid service. Did I notice a difference with the new fluid versus the old, no but going forward I plan on doing this service every 25-30k.
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Old 03-25-14, 08:16 PM   #139
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Dealer said they would do the LABOR on a complete FLUSH for $140.

Said they would match Sewell CL price of about $6.50qt.......x10-12qts = $65-80....so a total of a little over $200 with fluid and labor.

Said normally they don't recommend the flush unless the miles are low (guess my 90k is low in their eyes) and reassured me mine would be fine.

I don't care about the $200...I just don't want to make a mistake since some of you guys are worrying me about doing a flush on an LS! Don't want to "fix" something that's not broken per se...

I don't mind getting under the car and changing the fluid myself, but on these auto trans I am worried the exact amount won't go back in place than what I drained out?? My older Hondas were a cake walk to change the trans fluid, albeit a manual trans too.

I THINK I want to keep this car for another 90-100k, so I want to sleep easy knowing that everything will stay 100% for me, major mechanical wise anyways.

And if I do the every 2-3qt change like some of you are recommending, presuming it's on a COLD transmission overnight, how will I know if I am getting the EXACT/right amount of fluid back in the trans?

Is it similar to the differential, where you can't put TOO much in?? Just keep filling till the overflow tosses out?
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Old 03-26-14, 10:08 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by C8V6C View Post
Dealer said they would do the LABOR on a complete FLUSH for $140.

Said they would match Sewell CL price of about $6.50qt.......x10-12qts = $65-80....so a total of a little over $200 with fluid and labor.

Said normally they don't recommend the flush unless the miles are low (guess my 90k is low in their eyes) and reassured me mine would be fine.

I don't care about the $200...I just don't want to make a mistake since some of you guys are worrying me about doing a flush on an LS! Don't want to "fix" something that's not broken per se...

I don't mind getting under the car and changing the fluid myself, but on these auto trans I am worried the exact amount won't go back in place than what I drained out?? My older Hondas were a cake walk to change the trans fluid, albeit a manual trans too.

I THINK I want to keep this car for another 90-100k, so I want to sleep easy knowing that everything will stay 100% for me, major mechanical wise anyways.

And if I do the every 2-3qt change like some of you are recommending, presuming it's on a COLD transmission overnight, how will I know if I am getting the EXACT/right amount of fluid back in the trans?

Is it similar to the differential, where you can't put TOO much in?? Just keep filling till the overflow tosses out?

The whole idea is that you don't what to "shock" a system with totally new fluid. Especially, when the fluid has been in the car for 10 years / 100k miles. This applies to ALL cars. Flushing has caused many more problems then ever a simple drain and refill.

That said, you may not have any issues at all but the safest way is to do a drain and refill. This way new fluid is introduced slowly into the system instead of all at once. LScowoyLS, who is a retired Lexus master mechanic and also a friend with an engineer at Aisin, the manufacturer of our transmissions, also adamantly recommends this drain and refill over flushing. With how expensive a new transmission is, I much prefer to play it safe and follow his advice. Totally new fluid has the potential to cause grime or something to dislodge all of a sudden and screw up the transmission. Considering that it is a difficult procedure that is best done with the Techstream scan tool, I would rather the dealership do it. Filling the transmission properly involves running engine until the transmission temp reaches a certain point and then checking it and re-checking it again. My local dealer only charges $99 for parts and labor.
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Old 03-28-14, 10:24 AM   #141
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Ok so what's the bottom line on this? My '05 is coming up on 75K (I know, right! Brand f-ing new still). In any other car, I would have done a fluid change at every 50-60K.

Since our cars are by now ALL out of warranty (right? even extended should be done or nearly done on 06 models) does the mother ship have any official Toyota advice on how to maintain this tranny since it obvious many of them will be driving around way past 150K miles?
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Old 03-28-14, 10:35 AM   #142
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My dealer recommends a drain and refill at least every 90K. Lexus calls it a lifetime fluid but this is BS. There is no such things as a lifetime fluid. I would go ahead and do it now and then again every 30K.
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Old 03-28-14, 10:37 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannye View Post
Ok so what's the bottom line on this? My '05 is coming up on 75K (I know, right! Brand f-ing new still). In any other car, I would have done a fluid change at every 50-60K.

Since our cars are by now ALL out of warranty (right? even extended should be done or nearly done on 06 models) does the mother ship have any official Toyota advice on how to maintain this tranny since it obvious many of them will be driving around way past 150K miles?
There is no agreement. There is Toyota saying its not needed, and some say they know best. Others are saying BS to any "lifetime" fluid. If you want to get it changed, you decide if you will drain / fill the pan only, or flush the system and replace all the fluid.

Lot of good arguments & opinions but not a lot of hard facts as far as I know. I am going to do a drain and fill on my LS that has 96,000 miles at an independent shop, as soon as someone is kind enough to tell me how to put the new fluid into the tranny after I drain the old fluid out. No one seems to know, including the local mechanic who had it up on his hoist yesterday !
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Old 03-28-14, 11:18 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
There is no agreement. There is Toyota saying its not needed, and some say they know best. Others are saying BS to any "lifetime" fluid. If you want to get it changed, you decide if you will drain / fill the pan only, or flush the system and replace all the fluid.

Lot of good arguments & opinions but not a lot of hard facts as far as I know. I am going to do a drain and fill on my LS that has 96,000 miles at an independent shop, as soon as someone is kind enough to tell me how to put the new fluid into the tranny after I drain the old fluid out. No one seems to know, including the local mechanic who had it up on his hoist yesterday !
I'm actually having my second drain and refill done right now. Decided to go ahead and do it again since I am doing an alignment and tire rotation after I replaced my steering rack bushings. My local Lexus service manager also agrees that there is no such thing as a lifetime fluid.

Copied from a previous page:

The following bellow is the procedure I copied from the service manual:

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID
ADJUSTMENT
1. BEFORE TRANSMISSION FILL
_ This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
_ It is necessary to refill the transmission with the correct
amount of fluid.
_ The vehicle must remain level while adjusting fluid level.
2. TRANSMISSION PAN FILL
(a) Remove the two bolts and transmission case cover.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins
to trickle out of the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
3. TRANSMISSION FILL
(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as
listed in the table below.
(b) Reinstall the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.
Performed Repair Fill Amount
Transmission pan and drain plug removal
1.3 liters (1.37 US qts, 1.14 Imp. qts)
Transmission valve body removal 3.9 liters (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp. qts)
Torque converter removal 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
Entire transmission assembly 5.3 liters (5.60 US qts, 4.66 Imp. qts)
HINT:
If you cannot add the listed amount of fluid, do the following:
(1) Install the refill plug.
(2) Allow the engine to idle with air conditioning OFF.
(3) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
fluid.
(4) Wait for 30 seconds with the engine idling.
(5) Stop the engine.
(6) Remove the refill plug and add fluid.
(7) Reinstall the refill plug.
4. FLUID CIRCULATION
(a) Allow the engine to idle with the air conditioning OFF.
(b) Move the shift lever through entire gear range to circulate
the fluid.
5. FLUID TEMPERATURE CHECK
NOTICE:
_ On vehicles equipped with air suspension, perform
step (c) if it necessary to jack up the vehicle while the
engine running.
_ The fluid temperature should be less than 30_C (86_F)
before beginning the fluid temperature check.
(a) With hand-held tester
(1) Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3.
(2) Select the tester menus: OBD/MOBD, ENGINE,
DATA LIST and A/T.
(3) Check A/T OIL TEMP.
(4) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(b) Without hand-held tester (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13) of
the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D every 1.5 seconds for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when the
fluid temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will
blink when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle unit the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
(c) For vehicles with air suspension (Using D shift indicator)
(1) Connect terminals between CG (4), OPA (11) and
TC (13) of the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).
Terminal OPA is connected to prevent air suspension
height adjustment from occurring when the vehicle
is lifted off the ground with the engine running.
(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N and
D at 1.5 seconds interval for six seconds.
(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that the
fluid temperature check mode has been started.
(4) The D shift indicator comes on again when the fluid
temperature reaches 46_C (115_F) and will blink
when it exceeds 56_C (130_F).
(5) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid temperature
reaches 46_C (115_F).
6. FLUID LEVEL CHECK
NOTICE:
The fluid temperature must be between 46_C (115_F) and
56_C (130_F) to accurately check the fluid level.
(a) Remove the overflow plug with the engine idling.
(b) Check that the fluid comes out of the overflow tube.
_ If fluid does not come out, proceed to step 7
_ If fluid comes out, wait until the over-flow slows to
a trickle and proceed to step 8.
7. TRANSMISSION REFILL
(a) Install the overflow plug.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Remove the refill plug.
(d) Add 0.4 liters (0.42 US qts, 0.35 Imp. qts) of fluid.
(e) Allow the engine to idle and wait for 10 seconds.
(f) Proceed to step 6.
8. COMPLETE
(a) Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
(b) Stop the engine.
(c) Install the refill plug with a new gasket.
(d) Install the transmission case cover with the two bolts.
Torque:
20 Nm (205 kgfcm, 15 ftlbf) for overflow plug
39 Nm (400 kgfcm, 29 ftlbf) for refill plug
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Old 03-28-14, 12:30 PM   #145
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thanks, but this is no help.

3. TRANSMISSION FILL
(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as
listed in the table below.

It does not say how to do this !!!!!!!!!!!!
It happens to be easy to drain but getting the new fluid in is the question

How do you physically pour the new fluid into the transmission ?
I was under the car with a mechanic yesterday and he didn't know how to do it ? Should let Lexus do it. My error,

The page you printed never is specific about HOW to achieve this step. It just says to do it. My question now is how do you physically, when underneath the car, pour the new fluid into the transmission ?

No one has ever said how ... either no one here really knows or they aren't talking !

Its a Lexus conspiracy ! They WANT us back, and I don't want to go, LOL
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Old 03-28-14, 01:36 PM   #146
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Hahahaha. I think you use a funnel or maybe they pump it in. I have no idea. That's why I take it to the dealer. I'll see if I can ask while I am here.

Edit: It is pumped in. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-28-14, 02:39 PM   #147
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"Remove the refill plug and add fluid." ...I think the question is exactly where is the refill plug on the trans...

For ATF drain and fill on my other cars I use the following method: Pour the drained fluid from drain pan into an empty milk jug that has been marked (use permanent felt marker) with quart and half quart measurements. Then replace with same amount of ATF that you measured as drained.

To create measure jug, fill an empty jug with 1/2 quart of water at a time and make a "sharpie" mark at water level 1/2 quart at a time up to full 4 quarts. Takes 5 minutes to create and lasts forever.
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Old 03-28-14, 02:39 PM   #148
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Well the transmission is made by Aisin as far as I can tell. I sent a request to Aisin America for the contact information of whoever can answer the question of fluid replacement. Let's see if I get a response.
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Old 03-28-14, 04:03 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannye View Post
Well the transmission is made by Aisin as far as I can tell. I sent a request to Aisin America for the contact information of whoever can answer the question of fluid replacement. Let's see if I get a response.
I will be surprised if they respond in any way to your request.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwock View Post
"Remove the refill plug and add fluid." ...I think the question is exactly where is the refill plug on the trans...
Yep. That was my EXACT problem yesterday

Does anyone here know ?

(((((((((( silence )))))))))))
(((((( crickets chirping ))))))))

Now that we know the question, maybe we can find the answer ....
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Old 03-28-14, 04:18 PM   #150
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She feels good! I'm a fan. I've done this twice in 10,000 miles. The shifting is smoother. Talked to the tech too. It was one of the better dealer experiences overall. Minor adjustment to my alignment, tire rotation, and a free drl disable for $201
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