RON430

OK, we all know about Consumer's Reports and their not exactly performance oriented reviews, but it is hard to ignore much of what they say and there are certainly those looking for used cars that use their input quite a bit so it does impact resale, if nothing else. So, in the latest issue is the comparo test of the LS430, S430, A8, XJ8, and 745i. And who wins? LS430. I don't have the mag in front of me but the ranking was something like LS first, S class second, A8 third, XJ8 fourth, and rounding out the bottom, the 745. I am not sure about the A8 - XJ8 ranking but I do remember the others. And if any of you LS afficianados could look at the mag, I believe the LS they used is a 2003 not a 2004. OK so it wasn't Car and Tarmac or Road and Tankard Mug but it is nice to see that some of what the Lexus driver wants in a car is also appreciated by other people who happen to be driving some of the other hardware at the same time.

With two GS's I am not exactly in the market right now but it is getting harder and harder to go beyond the LS next. Is anybody else feeling a big ho hum about the S class, A8, XJ8, and 745 competition? Don't know when this happened but all of a sudden the alternatives just don't get much enthusiasm from me. Can't say the LS really got my blood up but it is doing more things right than anybody else right now. Maybe the S class and 745 is just not interesting enough particularly in light of the reliability issues and the A8 and XJ have never really been in the running for me. I have been pretty vocal about Bangle's bungles but I would give them cautious kudos for at least trying. Problem is they missed pretty badly. Oh well, maybe it is just me.

Still, congratulations to you LS owners.

carguyay

Funny I drove a v-12 BMW 7 series. I even like the styling.Seats and interior was outstanding. I drive,ugh. The lease or discount on a purchase was better then Lexus 430. I ordered a LS 430 sport after I drove one.To many of my friends have them old and new and love them.

RON430

When the 7 came out, I was pretty disappointed, especially after having owned two sevens. My wife didn't think it was awful but I never saw much to like. But as time went on, I thought maybe it would grow on me. Well, it hasn't. Haven't driven the 760 but I did drive the 745 and really didn't care for it, maybe a first for bimmer and I. To put up with the reliability issues on top of it is just too much. But for some reason, all the big luxo sedans are sort of boring to me now. Really liked the S class when it came out but maybe there is just too much C class in it for my tastes and after having money on a CL500 but not liking it when it came in, I am sort of off the big Mercs until they do a redesign and try to tackle their reliability gremlins. Had an E type in the distant past but the XJ needs to find a new identity and get some more interior room. A8 is slightly interesting but not enough to warrant the bucks. The freshening of the LS seems to be finding some real Lexus identity and, without getting to the tuner versions, offers very competitive performance for this class.

Obviously CR does incorporate issues such as value and reliability which rarely make it to the other comparos but all things considered, it was nice to see the LS do as well as it did. And if I am right about it not being the 2004, its' ranking in the test are really remarkable.

carguyay

Your post is interesting. I know a fellow who works at the local Jag dealer. yes we have one and a Bmw dealer cool . Any way he said the techs just die when they come in with dash rattles x,s doesnt matter all of them . They take the dash completely apart and just go nuts looking for rattles etc. He said they have to smile in front of the customer but just do not want to be the tech that has to do it . My best friend works at ford and said he would get me a super deal. He gets to write a letter four times a year to get the super deal. I saw a doctor at a gas station with a A-8. I thought it was beautiful and asked him how he liked it. He said great but the trans was acting up and they were telling him to bad. he was just out of warranty. He wasn't happy. My friends dad had a 2002 S-500 and liked it .When he got a 2003 LS 430 he said the 500 was nice but liked the LS 430 better. He is 65 years old and these are just some Ls430 car stories ,maybe to justify my purchase.I really tried to like and buy a S-500. IT looks like a real expense sports model like say a Gs 430 with a star. I have owned some over the top sports cars etc and wanted something to fly a little under the radar.

FaceUT

Read & have the article. Lexus reliabilty was tip top. What suprised me most was it was the only car with even good reliabilty. The BMW and MB had ALL BLACK (or worst) ratings!

I personally would be beyond pissed to spend that much on a car and get nothing but headaches.

It's amazing how little $80 K will buy these days...

LS430inTX

Also got the mag a few days ago. Have it in my hot little hands right now. While they don't refer to any specific model year (they just say the "LS430 series") in the body of the text they refer to the 2004 model in the future tense - meaning they wrote the article before the '04 came out. So they must have based the review on the '01-'03 models.

While I respect Consumer Reports' review about the fit and finish and reliability of the LS430, I must say that my personal experience is somewhat different than their review. I just bought an '03 Ultra Luxury back in August and within 2 weeks of taking delivery, several problems have cropped up that I find unacceptible for a car of this class - especially in light of all the rave reviews that Lexus has received over the years. In my mind I think Lexus has gotten a little complacent and rested on their laurels a little too much.

carguyay

Please share the problems so the rest of us can beware. The facts can help us the customers as well as the Salesman , service reps that need to help with these things.

LS430inTX

Well, let's see if I can remember everything. The first thing that happened wasn't serious but it shook the foundations of my faith in Lexus that they build quality cars. After the first week of owning the car I took it to the gas station for it's first fill-up. When I went to insert the pump handle into the filler neck I noticed that the filler neck was moving around waaay too much. There is a black plastic shroud around the filler neck that mounts the neck to the body of the car. After closer inspection I noticed that the 4 screws that hold the black plastic shroud to the body were missing. Not only were they missing but you could look in the holes where the screws should be and see that the threads were never tapped. I showed this to my salesman and he passed it off as a dealer prep error. I didn't believe him. When the mechanic came out to look at it and install the screws, he agreed with me that it should have been done at the factory. This troubled me greatly because what immediately went through my mind is "what else on this car hasn't been properly assembled?" Leaving the screws out was very very careless of the manufacturer.

After this happend I looked the car over for other obvious problems and found that the rear door step plates had not been installed properly. They were sticking up at the back about a half inch from their proper installed position.

The next few problems kind of happened one right after the other. The car developed a very annoying "cracking" noise above my head in the sunroof area. Then, after having my first back seat passengers enjoy the rear seat amenities, the right hand massager developed a loud racket during its operation and shortly thereafter, it created some serious electromagnetic interference in the sound system (i.e. buzzing in the speakers)

A rattle has developed on the rear package tray when the radio is on. It can't be because the bass is too loud because, I don't care what anybody says, the Mark Levinson system does *not* have that good of bass output.

The lower air register on the front-right of the transmission tunnel just fell out the other day.

My power driver's seat seems to have a mind of its own. If I move it in any direction, the head rest decides it wants to fully extend.

The front suspension made a loud cracking noise the other day while turning. I haven't been able to reproduce this but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

And last night, my transmission lurched while backing out of a parking space. It felt like it slipped.

I took the car back for the sunroof rattle. When I got the car back, I inspected the car before I left the dealer. I found that they had scratched and "gouged", yes, "gouged" my paint down to the primer on one side. Then I inspected the interior and found greasy fingerprints on my suede headliner in the area where they worked on the sunroof (I have the Ecru interior). I went nuclear all over the rep and insisted they fix everything. They buffed the scratch out and put touch-up paint on the gouge and expected me to accept it. WRONG. I insisted they fix it back to the way it was. Two days later I get the car back and found that they scratched the top of the trunk this time. It was all I could do not to pound this guy into the ground. I took the car anyway and buffed the scratches out myself. After having the car a few days the craking noise in the sunroof returned.

I have not taken the car back for the sunroof or anything else because of the extremely poor way this dealer treats it's customer's cars. I haven't decided what to do about it all yet.

I traded a '99 Honda Accord Ex V6 for this LS430 and except for a one problem that was corrected on the first visit, I never had any problems with it - no squeaks, no rattles, no mysterious suspension noises, no transmission lurching - nothing. And they always took care of the car whenever they had it for service. From my perspective, at least at this point in time, that Honda had 10 times the build quality this LS430 has.

Lexkost

LS430inTX, I am real sorry to here all your problems, first you need to find a new dealer to have the problems taken care of and don't give up ........Make a punch list and take the car in and have them fix everything ..................Looks like I will keep the old LS a little longer now that I saw your story.........I hope everything works out.........

carguyay

Sorry to hear about all of this. Yes another dealer. I drive by two Gm dealers to get my gm product fixed. It has turned out so well that i tip the service writer and he gives me his personal car to drive. I always return it full and clean. If a mistake is made he will meet me or drop it for me. Was your car built late or bought late in the 03 run? Ughly stuff. Hope it gets better for you.

daryll40

Fortunately my '03 LS430 (bot on Sept 8th) has a different story. Flawless. And the dealer has been perfect. Installed my Nokian tires perfectly. Cleaned the vehicle. Great biscotti! Sounds like LS430inTX has a bad dealer, although the missing screws would cause me some concern. Nevertheless, my guess is that the Lexus "experience" can be salvaged by finding a new dealer or contacting the regional zone rep. Get them to fix everything and I suspect the vehicle will be very fine.

XeroK00L

Wow...sorry to hear about what you have gone through, LS430inTX.
As other people said, this has to be for the most part the dealer that was making those reckless mistakes.
Maybe you can tell us here the name of the dealer so that we can all avoid falling victim to them in the future, and that someone working for that dealer may respond and provide us a solution after seeing this thread.

LS430inTX

I appreciate all the level-headed and mature responses that I have received. I hesitated to produce such a seemingly "anti-Lexus" post because on another web site, I voiced my displeasure about the difficulty of adding an XM receiver to the LS430 and I really ragged on Lexus for making it so hard. Well, based on the responses I got on that website, you'd think I had committed a cardinal sin. Those people were so quick to defend Lexus that I had a hard time not thinking they were part of some Lexus militia. I can't imagine what they would do with the post I made above. Anyway, thanks. You guys rock.

While I realize that my experience is probably in the minority and most if not all of you have "flawless" cars, I am happy for you. However, because there is so much positive talk about Lexus in the press and everywhere else, anything negative against Lexus seems to go unreported or gets lost in the shuffle and becomes insignificant. Sometimes I think that Lexus is the "darling" of the auto media and it seems they can do no wrong. And if the quiet arrogance and complacency of my dealer is any indication of corporate Lexus, they must think they can do no wrong either. Well I am here to tell you they CAN do wrong and they have. In my opinion, they have sold me a carelessly assembled product which flies in the face of all that positive press they've been getting. And if they truly aspire to their slogan "the passionate pursuit of perfection" I would hope that there is some humility and integrity at corporate and that they are interested...make that passionately interested and willing to correct the problems I have been having.

In spite of the bad, first impression I have of Lexus, I do have a lot of good things to say about the car and intend on keeping it providing that I don't get any new problems and the existing ones are fixed. I do believe in the product and that my particular car will live up to it's legacy. And compared to the other competitors in it's class, I do agree with Consumer Reports in that it is the overall best choice. I bought the LS430 because of it's quiet ride, it's easy ingress/egress, and most important it's historical reliability.

I appreciate all the sound advice I've heard so far. When I figure out how I am going to approach getting these problems fixed I will take steps toward that direction. Because my dealer is the only game in town and the next nearest Lexus dealer is 80 mi away, I want to give my dealer one more chance to make up for past mistakes. I just have to get up the nerve to do it. In light of that, I do not want to "rake them across the coals" in public at this time so their name will remain anonymous. If, after the second chance, they continue to screw up I will post the details and name them by name. I will also send a very long letter I am composing to the General Manager of the Lexus division in California, D. E. Clements.

RON430

I'm glad that you guys that are more LS savvy than I saw the article and posted your thoughts. I did have the feeling that they had tested an '03 and the lead time for a magazine would also probably lean that way.

LS430inTX - I am sorry to hear about your experiences and I would also agree that Lexus needs to be aware of this. I don't have an LS but I do have two GS's and the worst part of it is that neither one is what I would call very quiet. When we brought my wife's 2k3 GS3 in and complained about it to the dealership where she bought it, they said that the GS was the performance model and that it is noisy and that we should have bought an LS. I didn't even know what to say about that one. After having the car serviced there once we switched to the dealership that I use on my GS. The dealership we use for service is not the one we bought either car at but their service department is much better than the one where my wife bought her car. I guess you could try another dealership but I am very sympathetic to your issues. Life is just too short to put up with that for long. Even though Lexus rates very high in reliability and initial quality, it doesn't mean they are perfect. You can get a problem car (not saying yours is) with any brand but I think the way I look at it is that you have the odds on your side with the Lexus. Those black circles in the CR report for the other cars is not confidence building and you really have no one to blame if you buy one and get the quality issues. The only problem on my 2k1 GS4 was a seat track problem and the dealership took the leather off (so there would be no issues with it matching the rest of the hides) and switched it to an entire new seat assembly - problem solved and now almost 30K miles with absolutely no other issues.

When I read your post on the filler door, I was really interested. On my wife's GS3 the filler door stood out from the body a bit when closed (having two GS's side by side let's you compare pretty easy) but when I looked at how it was attached I was a bit flabbergasted. On the GS, the actual filler receptacle is bolted to the body but the door is on a hinge and bracket that is pop riveted to the body. The rivets were loose and there was no way to adjust anything. The dealer had to drill out the rivets and re-rivet the bracket to the body. It is still not quite flush but there is no adjustment so we are just going to leave it alone. Having said that, the sanity check is that every bimmer I have ever owned (five, all bought new) had to be towed to the dealership within the first eight weeks of ownership for various problems that would not let the car start. Makes the irritation of the filler door a bit less exciting but I have to totally agree, for this money, it shouldn't happen. I had both an MR-2 and a Supra that had absolutely no issues for well over 200,000 miles each and they were a lot less money than the GS. Hope your issues work out for the best.

Lexkost

LS430inTX I would take the car to a bodyshop and show them the quarter-panel there the filler neck is and ask them if it looks like it may have been damaged and repaired............I have heard of stories where people bought new cars and later found out that it was damaged and repaired by the dealer and the dealer never told the buyer....................I hope this is not your case........But your story about missing screws is very Fishy.