MrCi

I posted on the 430 side a few weeks ago, and after looking at my budget, I can't realistically get a decent (05+) LS430. So here I am. I've read through quite a few buyer's guide threads, and there is really no consensus.

I've owned two BMW 740s, and they were extremely unreliable POS'es. Engine, tranny and cooling system problems galore.

Assume a $8k budget, including purchase and first-year maintenance. What should i go for? 94-97? 98-00? Why or why not?

Is this car also reliable? I'm no stranger to flatbeds, and I'd kinda like to avoid that as much as possible this time around.

I'm looking at cars with around 200k km (~125k miles). That's the point where the 7 series' drivetrain starts falling apart. Same thing here?

Thanks for the help!

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

buy a '98-00, massive improvements in power, economy, safety, and looks less dated.

drivetrain is bulletproof, just be aware of timing belt intervals (90k miles) and make sure yours is up to date (~800-1100ish usd incl. labor with oem parts).

Avoid air suspension (breaks with age, expensive to fix, but rare in '98-00 cars) and navigation (no updates, annoying to upgrade to standard radio)

The FAQ at the to pof the forum will help you.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

I vote for the 98-00 and I doubt ANY LS will have any of those issues your 740 had at that mileage. Like PD said make sure TB was done or your going to have to do it. If your comfortable working on cars then you could buy your own parts and fix most of the minor things yourself.

xxmariolxx

any year ls400 with 125k is barely broken in.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

98-00. You may find some nice 97's out there as well. Check the 98+ and '97 specs so that you are familiar with the differences.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

Welcome!

These cars are rocksolid reliable!
I used to work on 7series cars all the time and compared to them, you're going to feel like you bought a new car, even with 200k on the clock.

If he is from BC Canada, he is going to have a hard time finding a nice 98-00 for that price up here. It's not as simple as it is in the US to find a nice clean example for a good price. When I was looking, all the 98-00 cars were not very nice or US imports that were way over valued. However, for $8k you could find yourself in a nice 98-00 Celsior, if you don't mind RHD and bringing it over from Japan.

The 95-97 should be perfect for you and your budget.
If you can do the work yourself, you can save a ton of extra money and put it toward parts. I put about $2k from Rockauto into mine and it's like a new car now. Replaced just about every suspension part, did all the routine maintenance, water pump & timing belt, and lots of extras just as preventative. If you are paying someone, either double the costs or ½ the parts.

No matter what you end up with, just be sure to do and exceptionally thorough pre-purchase Inspection done by your mechanic or a dealer. Just about everything on these cars has a service life of 150-200k km, not the 80,000 km failure interval of your old 740s!

Once again, WELCOME!

LScowboyLS

98-00 really is quite an improved car over 95-97 - if you are patient, you can find a beautiful condition 98 or 99 for $6000-$8,500 but you really should put back at least $1000-$2000 for little things that any 15 year old car needs! (tires, fixing power steering leaks, suspension bushings, rear trans mount, timing belt, brake pads etc.)

The 7-series BMW was one of the worst reliability cars of all time, whereas the LS400 was one of the most reliable cars of all time!

major improvements on 98-00 over 95-97 LS400 for my money:

● generous horsepower increase (enough that you really feel it)
● side air bags
● elimination of distributor caps and rotors and plug wires (coil on plug for better horsepower & reliability)
● very good traction control system (vehicle skid control)
● greatly improved theft deterrent system (actually '97 has this one feature as well)
● fly by wire (no conventional throttle cable)
● VVTi system for better horsepower/fuel mileage
● improved ECU design (less prone to ECU capacitor issues)

The other main reason to buy an LS400 over other luxury sedans, is that the three most expensive systems on a car, namely: the engine, the transmission, and the A/C - just don't seem to ever have any problems, if they do, it's generally because some Beavis previous owner messed with it or modded it unnecessarily.

no, more like 300K to 500K - no other car has as durable of an engine, transmission or A/C system

a '96 was recently sold on ebay with 897,000 documented miles - it did not have the original transmission however, those only last 275-300K

cgawelko

I would say a 1990-1994 due to the stronger connecting rods and for $8000 you can have a **** 1st gen... Mine was only $2300 and has 160k on it and looks like I rolled it out of a time capsule. For $8000 you can probably find an LS of any year under 2000 and no matter what you will love it more than a BMW. Ive had a few BMWs and run a couple at the track. 7 Series is a nightmare. American transmission with a german motor, never works right.

But again. with any LS. If you find one that has air ride still, make sure they changed the bellows or something. the bellows are only $15 on rockauto, so its not that big of a deal, but still. I had an E34, E36, E46, lots. And I used to pay my bills based on the unreliability of BMW. Toyota service bays are either empty or have routine maintenance going on.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

No, you can't!
In Canada, and even more specifically in BC, you actually can not!
As I said, you can not find one as easily or as cheaply as you can in the US. When 98-00s do pop up, they routinely want $10k+ for the nicer ones. I look constantly and I haven't seen any that blow my socks off in the 6k-8500 range. He would have to go to the US and bring one back, but that would also add at least another $1000 to the price just for documentation, importation and required Canadian import inspection. He would also be forced to put out for a lot or all of the required service right away as it would be required to pass the import inspection in order to license the car.

Even in Washington and Oregon, there are not a lot of amazing 98-00 specimens in the 6000-8500 range, so he'd likely be forced to fly to Cali/Az/Nv/Tx/etc to get a really nice one... More $$$ again.
Recently, the Canadian dollar is no longer at par with the US so you also have to factor that in too!

cgawelko

I still stand by a 1st gen. Note the connecting rod comparison on the top photo on the right:

http://lextreme.com/Toyota-Lexus-Rods.html




The money you will spend on a newer one, you can get a pre-95, none of that crazy OBD2 CEL nonsense and the modification comes easier. A 2nd gen your pretty much going to have to make mods yourself. The 1st gen there is a bit of a market for (unless you want a carbon fiber hood, then your SOL) and you can get piggybacks, stand alones, engine kits, lots of stuff.

Greg5OH

Schmee is right. I dont know the market over in BC but they are more expensive in GTA area than i see guys posting stateside. That being said I ahve seen a few examples in GTA 98-00 for ~8k. Hard to find though.

for example on autotrade.ca in toronto +100km radius, there is ONE 1993 LS400 for 2k with 360kms on the clock.
kijiji yeields..zero 98-00s.
elusive creatures.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

You can get the same stuff for a 95+ that you can for a 90-94, so it doesn't really come any easier.

The rods don't matter unless you are boosting and "modding" isn't for everyone.... Even then, those that are into it are not by default going to want to mess around with the engine for more power on a car like this.

A lot of the "mods" people do to their 90-94s just bring it up to 95+ levels of performance and equipment.

MrCi

Thanks for all the replies so far!

A few questions:

How does time affect things like timing belts? There's a 95 with 50k miles on the clock for $8k on craigslist. I'd obviously not pay that much, especially because they've told me the timing belt hasn't been done, but is it an issue? I've read elsewhere the interval is 90k miles OR 7 years.

Likewise, there's a 99 with 166k miles. I wouldn't even go near that if it was a 7 series without expecting a full engine + tranny teardown/rebuild, but assuming solid maintenance records, would it be something looking into?

Thanks!

Legender

I'd stick within 10 years for the timing belt if you've not hit the miles... just to be safe, but it could probably go longer, but depends on the environment. I'd plan on the timing belt right away as you're pushing 20 years on that puppy. And the price is certainly high for that one.

As for the 99 ... not afraid of that many miles if properly maintained... GF has 160k on her 2000 and runs with no problems. All maintenance has been done. You don't mention the price on the 99... but there are two here in TX on CL currently with close to 100k miles for about $7k... you should be looking at significantly less than that.

timmy0tool

iTrader: (7)

for the 95, take a look at the serpentine belt and you can tell the age of the timing belt. time does affect things but moreso in extreme climates like texas and, well, canada. however if you do end up with the 50k car i would not change the belt until 90k as normal but that's just me. you'll have to see how the previous owner maintained the car and go from there. good luck!

ps, my car was at 130k before i replaced the timing belt (PO failed to do it). the belt did have cracks but i don't think the belt would have snapped. i don't drive hard either.