sayow

No i mean after i put the serpentine belt back on of course

Just saying that since I know its has to be one of the issues i listed, are any of those such that i should not drive it 4 miles?

LScowboyLS

no, nothing that the serpentine belt drives is going to cause any catastrophic engine failure - how is the belt condition itself? - that is the one thing I left out of my list that can cause noise - if a pulley were to seize or the fan seize it could potentially throw a pulley or fan into the radiator or hood though, but 3-4 miles isn't far, so I think you are fine, with or without the belt, though I might just go without it, myself!

if you drive you 3-4 miles during the day and make sure the headlights and heater and radio are off, it should make it easily with no alternator, provided you have a good battery - I once made it about 40-50 miles with a new, charged battery in an LS400 with no belt

keep in mind if you do this, you will not have power steering, which will make low speed turning a pain, like parking

and yes, the fan bracket is probably the most likely culprit, but it could be several of those items, try manually turning each pulley, idler, fan, etc and see if you can detect any play or noise or crunchiness

sayow

Getting super frustrated... been working on the car all night. While I am learning a lot I seem to be digging a hole.

First of all, I discovered the noise issue. The yahoo that worked on my car, forgot 2 of the 4 nuts on the fan! (or did not tighten them and they fell off).

While I am certain that WAS my problem, now it simply wont start which means I did something to screw up the timing (at least that is my guess). Cranks fine, but no start.

So I remove the fan... again, remove the drive belt and the cam covers. I use a 22mm torque wrench to manually turn the crank pulley until the timing marks on belt align. At this point the crank pulley is also dead on 0. But the car wont fire.

Is that not the proper procedure?

The car started right up before I started jacking with the cam pulley so I know I effed up, but can someone PLEASE help me to correct this?

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

sounds like you unplugged a cam/crank/ignition plug that you should have left plugged in.

generally speaking a slightly mistimed 1st gen LS will run, albeit very poorly.

LScowboyLS

it is not good to adjust the timing belt when you are tired or super frustrated! - that can be dangerous to your engine!

get it out of alignment and the engine is toast! (if you start the engine up)

I would get some sleep and then come back well rested and then check the timing belt alignment with the service manual procedure here

also, make sure when rotating the crankshaft, that you always rotate it CLOCKWISE as viewed from the front of the car! - if you go past the marks, rotate crankshaft two more times CLOCKWISE and try again - never go counter-clockwise

the gist of the procedure is: when the crankshaft mark is at 0 (TDC) and you are truly at TDC (compression stroke) and not 180 degrees out (exhaust stoke) then along with crank mark pointing to 0, the marks on both cam pulleys should align with their respective marks on the cam pulley backing plates. The timing belt itself has marks as well, and while these marks are not critical, they are definitely helpful, especially when rotating the crankshaft.

after you think you have it correct, rotate crankshaft several times to check for interference in case it is off. - you can feel a valve beginning to contact a piston, don't force it! - this step should be done with plugs out so that the compression resistance doesn't make you nervous!

sayow

Thank you for all the assistance.

At this point I have to think timing is good. The cam marks are aligned, the crank pulley is at 0 and I removed plug # 1 and used a very long screw driver to confirm i was at top dead center.

Still just cranks.

Given that it run just fine previously and even after the timing (save for fan bolt oscillation noise) I cannot think of anything else timing wise that would be causing the car to crank but not fire. Heck I started the car just before I started work after taking off the serpentine belt and it purred like a kitten.

I checked all connections at the ignition coil and the two sensors just above the waterpump (cam sensors I believe). Not sure where to check next.

LScowboyLS

check crank sensor wiring, then do igniter bypass test

which starts at 5:53 in this video

- that will check the rest of the ignition system

sayow

That crank sensor is a ***** to get to... with the fan on... again!

I am convinced timing is straight now and although it seems odd that a problem unrelated to the timing belt work would cause this issue, I know those things happen (and that crank sensor looked fubar).

I am towing it in to a trusted mechanic who I know has Toyota/Lexus experience but despite my frustrations I have learned a ton and aside from the damage my wallet is about to take, I am glad for the experience.

I will update once its fixed and for those that were looking at the videos, that noise was from the loss of not 1 but 2 fan bolts...

Still love the Lexus

sayow

Update:

Got a call from the Lexus master tech working on my LS today and I feel vindicated in my timing job from last night

So the problem with the car cranking only, no fire has been diagnosed as a bad fuel pump relay. Ironically I looked at the relay (I am assuming its the one listed in the fuse box under the hood right behind the battery) but could not tell if it was bad and had no way to test it.

This coupled with my fixation on the fact that the car was "just running" lead me down the logical path of the problem being something "I ^&*(ed up"

In any event, I was perplexed as to why a seemingly unrelated issue would crop up at the very moment I am working on the fan and the timing when I ask the tech if me disconnecting the negative battery terminal about 12-20 times over the night would have been the cause and he answers that it certainly could have.

Does that sound right?

In any event, not out of the woods yet because they part wont be in until morning, but (crossing fingers) looks like a $30 part (straight from Toyota), $45 tow and an hour labor for a set of valuable lessons and experience.

Thanks to everyone that offered assistance especially Cowboy for the PDF link!

I really love this forum and hope to be more of a contributor and less of a consumer in the future!

timmy0tool

iTrader: (7)

glad it was sorted. the odds of something unrelated happening at the same time as you troubleshoot another is very slim. i'm surprised to hear it was your fuel pump relay which i have never heard of going bad in our cars. fuel pump itself, sure, but not the relay.

LScowboyLS

I am surprised he doesn't have this fairly common Toyota relay in his relay box, or that another relay of the same part number could not have been swapped from some non essential function (I love swapping relays to troubleshoot )

did he jumper around the relay to verify his diagnosis?

what was his methodology for determining this relay is bad?

and disconnecting and reconnecting the negative terminal will not harm a relay (or anything else) unless you sit there and touch the terminal to the post in some rapid fire on-off sequence

sayow

For what it is worth, there was a lot of "arcing" every time I removed and reattached the negative cable. So much so that as I said, the thought of a blown fuse/relay did cross my mind enough to pop off the cover and take a cursory look.

Tech gets the part today so well see... the thing still might not start

I will pass the time by installing my "newly refreshed" ECU in my 93 LS restoration project!

LScowboyLS

this should not occur on a car that is not running (I sure hope you didn't undo the negative on a running vehicle)

therefore, this would be indicative of a substantial short somewhere

think about it logically, a good size arc indicates a current flow, which would be happening when the cable is attached, there should a miniscule amount of current used when car is off (clock, security system) - otherwise your battery would run down quickly

Yamae

A bad fuel pump relay does not disable the engine to start except at the too cold condition or the fuel pump itself is bad. Although the cranking time becomes a bit longer, the engine should start without it. Because the fuel pump can mostly work with a little less power since the 12V power is supplied to the pump via the fuel pump resistor while the relay is not working.

Attached is for UCF20/21 but the fuel pump circuit is mostly the same. As you see the fuel pump relay only bypasses the fuel pump resistor.

I would not fully trust the mechanic who mentioned that the fuel pump relay was bad. If he was meaning that the circuit opening relay or the related circuit was bad and if it was correct, I would trust him.

sayow

In an effort to minimize making the tech (or me lol) look like a dummy due to my inexperience and weak translation of what he told me let me clear up a few things

1. I definitely NEVER removed the negative terminal when the car was running. Believe it or not while no ASE Master Tech I have turned a wrench a few times The arcing was not the stuff of Tesla demonstrations just a little spark every time I removed or replaced the terminal.

2. What I was told from the tech was that there were 3 (or 4) relays or circuits that they used an EFI tester and one of them failed repeatedly. I may have heard/added "relay" myself since that is what I was thinking about as he was speaking with me (as mentioned I even looked into this briefly before calling the shop).

3. They have absolutely confirmed that the car was not getting gas but was getting spark and that the timing was on point.

4. They also explained that even if the timing were off, that would - generally - not keep the car from starting. They said it would run like crap, backfire and potentially ruin your engine, but that timing issues alone should not keep the car from starting.

There findings were in line with my thoughts that the car was not getting spark or gas. While cranking there was ZERO indication of the car about to start. There was no sputtering, just a consistent crank in short bursts (didn't want to stress the starter).

I will call them shortly, but given the above does that make more sense or point to some "relay, circuit or electrical component" that could be the cause of no gas?

(yes tank was full smart ***)