LS - 1st and 2nd Gen (1990-2000) Discussion topics related to the 1990 - 2000 Lexus LS400

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Old 07-17-13, 05:02 PM
  #16  
LScowboyLS
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it would not be surprising for the "remanufactured" ECU to also have bad capacitors, the rebuilders out there don't seem to understand that it takes a very special type of rare Japanese special capacitor to fix this problem!

I have never opened up a Japanese car ECU that has been "remanufactured" by anyone and found the correct type of capacitors correctly installed, if that tells you anything!

what did you get when you scanned this car for codes?

if you don't have an OBD II scanner,
here is a very good one for only $16  to your door here is a very good one for only $16 to your door
(I own this scanner and it works well!)

Last edited by LScowboyLS; 07-17-13 at 05:06 PM.
Old 07-17-13, 08:24 PM
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djbrown01
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I don't want to doubt you but seriously it can't always be capacitors, for all we know the ECU is just fine, since I've had three in the car over the past week and all have exhibited the exact same issue.. Lets assume the ECU is perfect, what else could it be.. I understand you are trying to drum up some business and make a little money but for sake of argument lets imagine that these people who have a successful ECU rebuilding business know what they are doing and Go to step 2. Step one was make sure ECU was fixed, now what is Step 2?????? To me it feels like a fuel problem, Are these cars known for any fuel pump issues? Any other fuel gizmos that this car has? I know it has a two speed fuel pump so could it not be sending it the correct voltage and causing all this?
Old 07-17-13, 08:25 PM
  #18  
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And it's throwing code P0420 and it has been for the last couple months, considering it has an exhaust leak at the pre cat gasket this is to be expected
Old 07-17-13, 09:36 PM
  #19  
LScowboyLS
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If I wanted to drum up "business" - I sure wouldn't post all the secrets of how to do the fix yourself!

I have just noticed that ECU capacitors are the problem on LS400's a great deal of the time, especially when they do not run right or shift right or A/C compressor not working for no reason, speedo/tach issues etc. and it is not normal maintenance issues such as plugs, wires, caps, rotors, etc. - LS400 does not really have any weak areas to do with running right other than ECU capacitors and the Idle Air Control Valve and the trunk hinge wiring short. (94 and earlier models only on the short) - Sometimes a vacuum line could break or a timing belt could jump a tooth or a coil or igniter could go out but those things are all relatively rare.

Keep in mind that ALL LS400's will have this capacitor issue, so it is not IF, but WHEN, it is a known defect - and smart people are fixing this proactively, since the caps leak a corrosive substance and will ruin the ECU if not caught in time - my ECU went from looking perfect to almost ruined beyond repair in the course of 4 months!

when were the caps, rotors, plugs, and wires last changed?

Last edited by LScowboyLS; 07-17-13 at 09:40 PM.
Old 07-17-13, 09:45 PM
  #20  
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here is how our world expert ECU engineer Yamae from Japan explains it:

Originally Posted by Yamae
Toyota has started to use Nichicon's electrolytic capacitors that containing “quaternary ammonium salt / compounds" in the late 80s and has kept using them for a bit more than a decade. The reason why they used those capacitors was simply because the internal impedance was low enough and showed good performance in removing noise and ripples at DC lines.

A little before that many electronics industries in Japan started to use similar capacitors that were for non automobile use and faced serious leaking problems in the early 90s. The details are written below but all in Japanese.
http://ednjapan.com/edn/articles/1208/01/news006.html

I don't have the time nor the ability to translate all the contents so I will just translate the title.
“80年代末期の“亡霊”に注意” or “Watch out for the “phantom” in the late 80s”
The “phantom” here means the electrolytic capacitor which contains infamous “quaternaty ammonium salt / compounds". Judging from the title, it is dangerous to use this type of capacitor without taking any special precautionary countermeasures.

Most of the electronics companies in Japan stopped using this type of capacitor in the early 90s or mid 90s for fear of leaking problems. But many automobile industries kept using them because they need good performance. Another reason was that they have been used in high reliability type-capacitors. Nichicon has been manufacturing special versions of this type for the automobile industries using specially coated lead wires with special sealing rubbers. One of my colleagues evaluated them and found the automobile type much better than those types designed for home appliances applications but the lifespan was not as long as those electrolytic capacitors that use regular liquids. Also the high reliability types were very expensive. I cannot show you the details of the evaluation results but what I can say is that the lifespan is longer than roughly 10 years or so but you cannot expect a lot if used for longer than that.

As I fix different ECUs as a volunteer, I came across many failed Nichicon's PF(M) type capacitors these days, some 12 years old, some 15 years old. What I can say now is that my colleague has done a good job evaluating the capacitors using an oven in the accelerated mode. In accordance with that and from my own actual experience, ECUs older than 12 years are ready to fail someday soon or later, that I can say with confidence.

Below is a failed capacitor used in a 97 Celsior. You can see how the leg has corroded and the part on the board where liquid has leaked out.



Those who want to replace Nichicon's type PF(M) capacitors to avoid future problems, be sure to use low ESR type capacitors. Never select capacitors just seeing the voltage and the capacitance. I recommend you to use Rubycon's type ZLH or Nippon Chemicon's type KZH. These do not contain infamous "quaternaty ammonium compounds" but their ESR is low enough. You also have to pay good attentions against electric static discharge when doing the replacing job. A wrist strap is definitely needed to use. Without it you might damage the ECU.
Old 07-18-13, 02:49 AM
  #21  
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the ignition system was just gone through about six months ago
Old 07-18-13, 03:18 AM
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and after driving it last night about sixty miles and running pretty much ok other than the occasional hiccup, I went to start it this morning and it wouldn't even stay running and if it did the rpms were very low and it was missing badly, throttle position sensor could cause this?
Old 07-18-13, 04:53 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by djbrown01
and after driving it last night about sixty miles and running pretty much ok other than the occasional hiccup, I went to start it this morning and it wouldn't even stay running and if it did the rpms were very low and it was missing badly, throttle position sensor could cause this?
we already told you what causes this - there is really only one thing that happens to a '95 LS400 that gives the weird intermittent behavior you are experiencing, and with no corresponding OBD-II code.

the thing is with cars, is something called pattern failure, which a company called Identifix has made a fortune with, and is what every decent shop and dealership uses now. It's basically the fact that your exact year and model will fail in the same places that everyone else's 95 LS400 has failed, it makes sense, as they were built in the same plant, with the same parts, by the same robots.

if you want to rule out the last other possibility, you can test the coils/igniters/wiring by going to the 5:53 mark

Last edited by LScowboyLS; 07-18-13 at 04:59 AM.
Old 07-18-13, 10:17 AM
  #24  
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I would also look at the ground wires to the engine and body and make certain they are connected clean and keeping the electrical system bonded together. Could be you are simply losing a ground somewhere sometimes.
Old 07-20-13, 11:32 AM
  #25  
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OK,since apparently it can't be anything other than the ECU as you have explained, if I were to send the ECU to you and you were to fix it the way you say you do, and then I get it back, get under there and put it all back together and the car runs the same way do i get a refund???
Old 07-20-13, 05:19 PM
  #26  
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I doubt anyone would make you that deal having not been under the hood of your car themselves, way too many variables! - all we are trying to do is point you in the right direction on figuring out what is wrong with your car, as one thing is certain, LS400's (and every other car) tend to fail in the same places as other folks with the same year and model of car have experienced.

did you ever clear the codes and rescan it? - I know it is frustrating to have a car that doesn't run right, but if you lose your patience, then it can become hopeless on determining the problem, because you are no longer thinking clearly and you are just angry. Remember, the people here are not employed by you, they are just generously giving their time in order to do the right thing and give something back to the folks who are in a bind!

to repeat:

Originally Posted by LScowboyLS
the most high percentage technique of accurately diagnosing car issues, is something called pattern failure, which a company called Identifix has made a fortune with, and is what every decent shop and dealership uses now. It's basically the fact that your exact year and model will fail in the same places that everyone else's 95 LS400 has failed, it makes sense, as they were built in the same plant, with the same parts, by the same robots.
Old 07-20-13, 07:03 PM
  #27  
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your 95 model is extremely common for this issue, and even if it is not the current problem, the repair should be done anyway, as a proactive measure, because all models (including yours) with these defective PF (M) series capacitors will have this corrosive leakage, and there is a very short time window between no leakage and corrosive effects so bad that the ECU is ruined and cannot be rebuilt, typically only a 4 - 6 month window to catch the problem once it begins.
Old 07-21-13, 04:05 PM
  #28  
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Don't worry, I got it figured out, wasn't the ECU, thanks for suggesting nothing else though.. Good work because I would have sent it to you and it would have run exactly the same. Now I have two a new ECU in the car that I know is good, and a spare that was just rebuilt with the correct caps that you outlined in a previous post. And word of advice, yes the ECU may fail over time but that's not always the issue, especially after three of them are tested in the car and all end up with the exact same symptoms.. Didn't you sit back when you read that and think to yourself hmmm that probably isn't the issue? You should probably be paying for a spot if you are going to solicit services for something that many times turns out to not be an issue.. I'll be sure to alert the moderators, thanks for nothing other than trying to rob me of my hard earned money.. Have a nice day, ohhh yeah and you probably want to know what the issue was????? I'll tell you after you send me 219 dollars
Old 07-21-13, 04:29 PM
  #29  
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I am glad to see you have got this issue figured out. I don't really believe LScowboy is trying to fatten his wallet though. He has posted very good information on how somebody could do this themselves. I have also gotten some very good tips and advice on my car from reading some of his posts.

If I would have had any ideas about what the issue were having I would have been more than happy to try to help. The only things I know about these cars comes from personal experience. With that being said I would like to know what the issue was. I am sure other members would also be curious.
Old 07-21-13, 05:39 PM
  #30  
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no one is soliciting anything, all of my advice is free!

and regardless of how your car is running, the caps in your ECU are dying, they all have this defect

I recommend that everyone change these out, due the the damage they can do in such a short time! - just make sure you order the right parts and do a good job, like this fellow just did!


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