Does this sound like a bad starter?
03-17-13, 11:38 AM
#1
Does this sound like a bad starter?
I have a 93 with 164,000 miles. I went to start it one night a few weeks ago, and I put the key in, turn it and the steering wheel motor works, instrument panel lights, headlights etc, but acts like its dead in the sense of no clicks or anything at all when turning the key to start. Next morning it started fine. It's done that a few times over a few weeks, now it does it every morning, but a few hours later will start. I can recreate the symptoms by removing the starter relay, so I replaced the relay but still does it. Battery, and connections all check out good. I searched the threads but what throws me off is they all talk about hearing clicks when turning the key, I'm hearing nothing
03-17-13, 12:49 PM
#2
Wish I had some helpful tips for you. When my starter went bad it would give me one click when I turned the ignition to start the car. From what I had have been reading the starter usually gives a single click when you try to start the car. I hope somebody else has some more ideas for you. It sucks having a car that's broken.
03-18-13, 11:29 AM
#3
it doesn't sound like a starter problem but check the easy stuff first.
i'm leaning towards either a bad battery (check the voltage), or a bad ignition key cylinder. also have you ever spilled liquid into the shifter? there is a switch that tells the ignition the shifter is in park (or neutral) which are the only two positions that allow the starter to engage. make sure the contacts clean in the shifter. even dust or debris can potentially cause some intermittent problems.
i'm leaning towards either a bad battery (check the voltage), or a bad ignition key cylinder. also have you ever spilled liquid into the shifter? there is a switch that tells the ignition the shifter is in park (or neutral) which are the only two positions that allow the starter to engage. make sure the contacts clean in the shifter. even dust or debris can potentially cause some intermittent problems.
03-18-13, 09:25 PM
#4
Driver School Candidate
My 97 ls400 experienced similar behavior. Would not start every so often but try to start it again and it would start. Finally it quit starting and I took it in for repair. New starter, replaced water pump and timing belt too.
03-18-13, 11:25 PM
#5
it's possibly a bad battery. happened to me in my '98 ls400. i thought it was my starter going out but it was my battery not holding a good charge. got that replaced and everything was fine again. i would get it tested at your local autozone since it's free anyways.
03-18-13, 11:28 PM
#6
I'm currently having the same problem with my 98 @ 185,xxx miles. Tested relay (was good), & replaced battery (was old) but still had the problem. Cut the connector off my positive battery cable, found tons of corrosion. Had to cut another 1.5" off before I found clean wire. I figured this HAD to be it. Spliced an extra length of cable and new connector, and STILL have the problem.
After reading pondfisher's post and then doing a search, it seems that a solenoid repair / starter replacement is going to be inevitable at some point.
After reading pondfisher's post and then doing a search, it seems that a solenoid repair / starter replacement is going to be inevitable at some point.
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03-21-13, 06:08 PM
#9
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Had the same issue with my 93. Had to turn the key about 10 times before it finally fired up. Just replaced mine a couple weeks ago and it starts up better then ever now.
03-21-13, 07:07 PM
#10
Moderator
It's done that a few times over a few weeks, now it does it every morning, but a few hours later will start. I can recreate the symptoms by removing the starter relay, so I replaced the relay but still does it. Battery, and connections all check out good. I searched the threads but what throws me off is they all talk about hearing clicks when turning the key, I'm hearing nothing
It detects the shift positions. As the car ages, it begins to show intermittent no connection problems. The aged electrical grease inside loses the capability of a good electrical connection and shows intermittent no connection problem especially when cold because the grease looses the flexibility. Look at the photo below. This is the inside of the switch. The lower part is after the grease was wiped off.
The most common and simple symptom is the no indication of the shift position at the cluster. The most serious one is the no start of the engine probably as you are experiencing now. The schematic below may help you to understand why so. Without closing the contact of the the neutral (start) switch, the starter relay cannot be driven and causes no start at all.
Once the problem happens and the adjustment is not effective, dealers usually replace the whole neutral start switch unit asking you to pay more than $300. As I check the part price at Sewell, it is priced $254.41. You also can see where it is located there.
A friend of mine had experienced this and it was a hard work to fix it. Removing it was not easy. He tried to clean and polish inside and used a new grease without buying a new switch. He could save some money but it was not a simple job.
I had the exact problem 5 months ago and I dare decided to fix it myself using a simpler, easier and may be smarter method. It was to apply a big current peaking more than 20A to the contacts using a car battery and a head light bulb.
My method was to clean the contact by the inrush current while shifting back and forth. This is somewhat strange for mechanics but it was a electrical method. Those who know the contacts will do this type of quick job. The fixed switch has been quite OK since I've done. I am sure it will be OK for a few to several more years from now on. This method did not require me any money but also I didn't need to remove the switch nor to open inside. If you are interested in my method, I will show you more after I write the detail with drawings and photos.
03-21-13, 07:48 PM
#11
another thing to check would be the starter contacts (inside the starter). If they go bad, it won't make any clicking sound when you turn the key, but will continue to work as normal intermittently. I've had it happen to 3 different toyotas- 87, 93, and 95, so something similar may happen in lexus starters.
neutral start switch definitely looks like a possible candidate too, from what yamae posted above.
neutral start switch definitely looks like a possible candidate too, from what yamae posted above.
03-26-13, 06:30 PM
#12
just to update for anyone searching in the future, it did end up being a starter. Bought a Denso remanufactured off Amazon for $155 + shipping. Local shop charged $425 labor
03-26-13, 08:26 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
I had the exact problem 5 months ago and I dare decided to fix it myself using a simpler, easier and may be smarter method. It was to apply a big current peaking more than 20A to the contacts using a car battery and a head light bulb.
My method was to clean the contact by the inrush current while shifting back and forth. This is somewhat strange for mechanics but it was a electrical method. Those who know the contacts will do this type of quick job. The fixed switch has been quite OK since I've done. I am sure it will be OK for a few to several more years from now on.
It's like we have Albert Einstein + MacGyver in the same Japanese man here on CL - I cannot believe we have the luck to have Engineer Yamae to show us so many great tricks!!
03-28-13, 05:49 AM
#14
well I went out there this morning, and it did the same thing. so the shop misdiagnosed it as a starter. guess I'll look into the safety switch as suggested
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03-28-13, 08:47 PM
#15
Moderator
The only thing I try to do is that I want LS400/Celsior owners in the world to keep their car running long after parts are not supplied any more or too expensive to buy. In order to do so, I am just writing my experience and cheap methods using my limited foreign languages.