1997; Power Steering Woes; Photos Included
11-03-12, 10:13 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
1997; Power Steering Woes; Photos Included
So, many months ago I started to notice my car dripping something, but like a moron ignored it until a couple weeks ago it cost me an alternator. Culprit? Power steering fluid leaking on to it. Solution? Not sure...yet - and that's why I'm here. And yes I've searched, but I'm interested in why I'm getting conflicting information, plus, I have pictures, and most other thread about this don't 
I asked the shop that replaced the alternator to find out where the leak was coming from, and long story short, they didn't and said they'd charge me shop fees just to check it. They believed, however, it was a leaking high pressure line.
Shop #2 put the car in the air, poked around with flashlights for a few minutes, told me it was a crimped hose. Fine, Autozone carries the hose for $74. However, they insisted to keep it OEM, and quoted me at OVER $600
including labor ($503 for the high pressure line from the parts department of the Lexus dealer near St. Louis where the car was originally purchased.
Shop #3 did, as I watched, a far more thorough investigation. They, unlike the shop #2, removed the protective plate, looked around with flashlights and mirrors, turned the car on and off, turned the wheels, etc. Unable to determine the source, they put dye in the p/s fluid and told me to come back two days later. I did, and they told me the leak was definitely coming from the pump itself, but never did get around to getting me a quote...
Three shops, three stories. I crawled under the car with my 50D and 7D today, and now I come to you with some photos looking for advice:
Exhibit A: Shiny new alternator:
Exhibit B: Everything that's shiny was covered in p/s fluid
Exhibit C: When the car was on ramps, the fluid was accumulating and dripping from the spot on the yellowed plastic bit in the middle of this picture:
Exhibit D: More crud:
Exhibit E: A drop forming on the bottom of the alternator:
Exhibit F: Even more crud, and you can see another drip forming:
Exhibit G: A zoomed in view of Exhibit F (bright yellow dot is fluid):
Exhibit H: A general view of things beneath the pump/alternator:
Exhibit I: Where it appears the most fluid is coming from:
Exhibit J: A zoomed in view of Exhibit I:
Exhibit K: An unrelated item that needs replaced...
Do the photos I've provided tell you anything about where it could be leaking? Others have told me it could be as simple as replacing a some kind of connector/washer (I forget the name exactly...), and obviously I'm also being told it's the entire pump or the high-pressure line. I obviously don't want to go about replacing stuff that doesn't need to be replaced. Keep in mind I'm mechanically inept, so any advice you give me that would say "check this or that" that requires disassembling anything won't get ME anywhere, but I can pass it along to someone who knows more about what they're doing.
As a side note, the car ran for a total of maybe two minutes (enough to get it up on the ramps) and when I removed the plastic under shield, it dripped probably six or so drops within a five minute period, then stopped for the remainder of the time I was under it (roughly an hour).
I asked the shop that replaced the alternator to find out where the leak was coming from, and long story short, they didn't and said they'd charge me shop fees just to check it. They believed, however, it was a leaking high pressure line.
Shop #2 put the car in the air, poked around with flashlights for a few minutes, told me it was a crimped hose. Fine, Autozone carries the hose for $74. However, they insisted to keep it OEM, and quoted me at OVER $600
including labor ($503 for the high pressure line from the parts department of the Lexus dealer near St. Louis where the car was originally purchased.Shop #3 did, as I watched, a far more thorough investigation. They, unlike the shop #2, removed the protective plate, looked around with flashlights and mirrors, turned the car on and off, turned the wheels, etc. Unable to determine the source, they put dye in the p/s fluid and told me to come back two days later. I did, and they told me the leak was definitely coming from the pump itself, but never did get around to getting me a quote...
Three shops, three stories. I crawled under the car with my 50D and 7D today, and now I come to you with some photos looking for advice:
Exhibit A: Shiny new alternator:
Exhibit B: Everything that's shiny was covered in p/s fluid
Exhibit C: When the car was on ramps, the fluid was accumulating and dripping from the spot on the yellowed plastic bit in the middle of this picture:
Exhibit D: More crud:
Exhibit E: A drop forming on the bottom of the alternator:
Exhibit F: Even more crud, and you can see another drip forming:
Exhibit G: A zoomed in view of Exhibit F (bright yellow dot is fluid):
Exhibit H: A general view of things beneath the pump/alternator:
Exhibit I: Where it appears the most fluid is coming from:
Exhibit J: A zoomed in view of Exhibit I:
Exhibit K: An unrelated item that needs replaced...
Do the photos I've provided tell you anything about where it could be leaking? Others have told me it could be as simple as replacing a some kind of connector/washer (I forget the name exactly...), and obviously I'm also being told it's the entire pump or the high-pressure line. I obviously don't want to go about replacing stuff that doesn't need to be replaced. Keep in mind I'm mechanically inept, so any advice you give me that would say "check this or that" that requires disassembling anything won't get ME anywhere, but I can pass it along to someone who knows more about what they're doing.
As a side note, the car ran for a total of maybe two minutes (enough to get it up on the ramps) and when I removed the plastic under shield, it dripped probably six or so drops within a five minute period, then stopped for the remainder of the time I was under it (roughly an hour).
Last edited by Mugen_1; 11-04-12 at 03:09 PM.
11-04-12, 03:30 AM
#2
my car's been in the air for the past couple weeks as i work through a snowballing steering issue myself. In my case I'm replacing the rack, hp line, and (causing the delay) the pump. Best bet for the line is either getting an aftermarket one (that i kind of don't trust) or getting your OEM line rebuilt by your friendly local hydraulic hose place. (look for places that do work for aero-industry, near airports is usually a good place to start looking). cheaper and better than oem imho. The pump i purchased used from RockAuto, a cardone rebuilt. (generally a solid refurb i've found), and the rack from a local place that specializes in axles and rack rebuilds. Would have had mine rebuilt instead of swapping it but it had some impact damage sadly.
in your case I would replace the pump, and since you're doing it anyways, swap the high pressure line (or rebuild it) too. The leak is probably coming from the center seal, though the air control valve leaks occasionally too (less than 1st gen cars), as does the HP line (though usually not from the fitting at the pump i think).
While you've got it all apart, replace the regular hose (low pressure) from the reservoir to the pump, and from the return hardline to the reservoir, these can be had cheaply from your local autoparts store.
A couple tips for swapping the pump and hp line in your 2LS:
-remove the reservoir cap and siphon out as much fluid as you can, then remove the res and hose.
-unbolt the rack side of the HP line first as it'll help drain a lot of fluid of it
-once the lines to the pump are removed, do yourself a favor and remove the main pulley nut BEFORE releasing belt tension, it's a LOT easier to pull the pump without the pulley when you don't want to remove the coolant line or unbolt the ABS actuator.
-remember you need a new O-ring for the feed port (aka suction port), new gaskets for the high pressure line would probably be useful too.
-if you want to delete the air control valve, you'll be wanting a relatively short M14x1.5 (i think) drain plug with crush gasket, a little RTV on the threads to keep it dry wouldn't hurt.
in your case I would replace the pump, and since you're doing it anyways, swap the high pressure line (or rebuild it) too. The leak is probably coming from the center seal, though the air control valve leaks occasionally too (less than 1st gen cars), as does the HP line (though usually not from the fitting at the pump i think).
While you've got it all apart, replace the regular hose (low pressure) from the reservoir to the pump, and from the return hardline to the reservoir, these can be had cheaply from your local autoparts store.
A couple tips for swapping the pump and hp line in your 2LS:
-remove the reservoir cap and siphon out as much fluid as you can, then remove the res and hose.
-unbolt the rack side of the HP line first as it'll help drain a lot of fluid of it
-once the lines to the pump are removed, do yourself a favor and remove the main pulley nut BEFORE releasing belt tension, it's a LOT easier to pull the pump without the pulley when you don't want to remove the coolant line or unbolt the ABS actuator.
-remember you need a new O-ring for the feed port (aka suction port), new gaskets for the high pressure line would probably be useful too.
-if you want to delete the air control valve, you'll be wanting a relatively short M14x1.5 (i think) drain plug with crush gasket, a little RTV on the threads to keep it dry wouldn't hurt.
11-04-12, 09:24 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Well, if all that needs replaced, and by the looks of it I wouldn't doubt or question it really, then it's on to whatever I can do the cheapest, and definitely by rank of immediate necessity. And perhaps a stupid question entirely, but until I can get something done for sure, will something like Lucas ATF Stop Leak at least slow down the problem in the mean time? And is there really any good way to clean up all this extra fluid that's been spewed in every conceivable crevice in the front half of my car?
Had a guy tell me he can re-build my p/s pump for $75+parts. And parts sourced from Rock Auto would put me at:
high-pressure line from Gates: $43.79 (w/ lifetime warranty and half the price of Autozone's Duralast unit)
low-pressure hose from Gates: $1.35/ 25ft
p/s pump NEW from AAE: $195.79
seal kit from Gates: $21.97 (w/ lifetime warranty)
So around $250 for parts isn't terrible, and FAR less than another $480 for an alternator.
Had a guy tell me he can re-build my p/s pump for $75+parts. And parts sourced from Rock Auto would put me at:
high-pressure line from Gates: $43.79 (w/ lifetime warranty and half the price of Autozone's Duralast unit)
low-pressure hose from Gates: $1.35/ 25ft
p/s pump NEW from AAE: $195.79
seal kit from Gates: $21.97 (w/ lifetime warranty)
So around $250 for parts isn't terrible, and FAR less than another $480 for an alternator.
Last edited by Mugen_1; 11-04-12 at 03:33 PM.
11-04-12, 10:31 AM
#4
PD has you well covered.
Get under there and clean it up. With that much leakage, you'll find the spot quickly. Be careful with that new alternator.
When I had PS work done, the Toyota seal kit was $48 and the labor was $140. There was fluid migration for about 10K prior and it was very gradual with a small drip that landing just aside of the alternator. The rebuild on ours took place at 124K miles.
Get under there and clean it up. With that much leakage, you'll find the spot quickly. Be careful with that new alternator.
When I had PS work done, the Toyota seal kit was $48 and the labor was $140. There was fluid migration for about 10K prior and it was very gradual with a small drip that landing just aside of the alternator. The rebuild on ours took place at 124K miles.
11-04-12, 04:04 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I'm calling shop #3 tomorrow about a price guesstimate since I never got one in the first place, then I have a Shop #4 to try Wednesday if Shop #3 wants a ridiculous amount. The problem I'm starting to encounter is that some shops are refusing to install customer-supplied parts.
I'm hoping this is the last thing that needs to be done at the present time, as the 180K interval is on the horizon. I found the OEM replacement parts bundle on eBay for around $300 (IIRC), but it's the labor cost that's a PITA. Probably wouldn't kill me to replace those worn suspension components either...
I've had the car since '07 and the fuel pump, alternator and now power steering are the only actual issues I've ever had with the car. Everything else has been regular maintenance (pads/rotors/oil changes/etc) or my own option (coilovers/wheels/tires/audio). As alluring as something newer sounds (like, an '04+ LS430), I can't justify letting this thing go, and it's FANTASTIC on the extended highway trips across the Midwest to cover drift events, and I STILL get compliments on it wherever I take it (in summer guise, not so much with the rattle-canned black stock winter wheel setup ha).
I'm hoping this is the last thing that needs to be done at the present time, as the 180K interval is on the horizon. I found the OEM replacement parts bundle on eBay for around $300 (IIRC), but it's the labor cost that's a PITA. Probably wouldn't kill me to replace those worn suspension components either...
I've had the car since '07 and the fuel pump, alternator and now power steering are the only actual issues I've ever had with the car. Everything else has been regular maintenance (pads/rotors/oil changes/etc) or my own option (coilovers/wheels/tires/audio). As alluring as something newer sounds (like, an '04+ LS430), I can't justify letting this thing go, and it's FANTASTIC on the extended highway trips across the Midwest to cover drift events, and I STILL get compliments on it wherever I take it (in summer guise, not so much with the rattle-canned black stock winter wheel setup ha).
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11-04-12, 07:19 PM
#8
check your regional forum, most GOOD independants don't care where the parts come from provided they're of good quality.
Also, why are you buying a brand new AAE pump? I picked up a rebuilt A1-Cardone w/warranty since i'd rather have them using as many OEM parts as possible and they generally only replace the seals/o-rings and if needed machine the inside that way. plus it's about half the price of an off-brand new one.
And why are you buying a seal kit if you're buying a new pump the seal kit is used to rebuild the pump if you were doing it yourself.
Also, why are you buying a brand new AAE pump? I picked up a rebuilt A1-Cardone w/warranty since i'd rather have them using as many OEM parts as possible and they generally only replace the seals/o-rings and if needed machine the inside that way. plus it's about half the price of an off-brand new one.
And why are you buying a seal kit if you're buying a new pump
the seal kit is used to rebuild the pump if you were doing it yourself.
11-04-12, 08:01 PM
#9
Get your mechanic to do the rebuild on the PS, you'll save yourself about $120-$150. Use that toward the hose. As our cars age, these flexible hoses are getting pretty stiff. I'm also due to start replacing them as budget permits. Ous has a growing list and I want to be efficient since the mechanic will be in there for some other maintenance repairs. The $ going out is depressing but this is a great car.
As for LS430 check the forum, they are encountering issues as they age. Personally, I'll take the simplicity of the LS400 over the 430. That's relative to those with the 460's and so on as each generation adds more.
As for LS430 check the forum, they are encountering issues as they age. Personally, I'll take the simplicity of the LS400 over the 430. That's relative to those with the 460's and so on as each generation adds more.
11-04-12, 08:14 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Also, why are you buying a brand new AAE pump? I picked up a rebuilt A1-Cardone w/warranty since i'd rather have them using as many OEM parts as possible and they generally only replace the seals/o-rings and if needed machine the inside that way. plus it's about half the price of an off-brand new one.
And why are you buying a seal kit if you're buying a new pump the seal kit is used to rebuild the pump if you were doing it yourself.
And why are you buying a seal kit if you're buying a new pump
the seal kit is used to rebuild the pump if you were doing it yourself.I'm not necessarily buying a new one from AAE, I just posted that there to get a total of parts if I HAD to have it replaced. I saw the rebuilt one you mentioned for $119 if I return my old one to negate the core fee, which might be what I end up doing.
And yeah scratch the seal kit - just saw it on the list of components and put it on the parts list for good measure - obviously it seems I can remove it.
11-06-12, 05:45 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
*update*
Got labor quotes today - prices assume I supply my own parts, which I will:
Shop #1 - out of the question
Shop #2: $380 for pump/high pressure line; $330ish for bushings + alignment
Shop #3: $400-$450 for pump/high pressure line; didn't bother with bushings at that point
Shop #4: $300 for pump/high pressure line; $380 for bushings + alignment
Time to find some friends with more mechanical skill than I...
Got labor quotes today - prices assume I supply my own parts, which I will:
Shop #1 - out of the question
Shop #2: $380 for pump/high pressure line; $330ish for bushings + alignment
Shop #3: $400-$450 for pump/high pressure line; didn't bother with bushings at that point
Shop #4: $300 for pump/high pressure line; $380 for bushings + alignment
Time to find some friends with more mechanical skill than I...
11-06-12, 06:23 PM
#13
ever thought about the feed port to the pump at the bottom of the reservoir? there is a small o-ring there that could be causing all this. i too have the same problem, and all i can see is that the lines are wet. good job taking pics of the problem so PD can fully diagnose it! 
11-12-12, 09:42 AM
#14
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Changing these parts is not all that difficult. The good thing about the LS is that they are easy to work on i just change my pump out on my 1993 about 3 months about. Cost $140 for a brand new pump and hose kit and took about 4 hours. Of all the jobs i have worked on this is not that difficult, plus for all of the reason's your stated i do not trust most mechanics unless i know them personally. Check out lexls.com as they have some killer tutorials on all of the problem areas on these cars, it has been a god send. Good luck.
