Considering a 1st or 2nd gen LS 400 - What do I need to know?
11-20-11, 10:08 AM
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Considering a 1st or 2nd gen LS 400 - What do I need to know?
Hey all,
I'm giving some thought to a first or second generation LS 400 to use as a commuter. The reliability of the 1UZ-FE, not to mentioned the rest of the car, is the main driver for my interest in the LS. I'm also keen on the luxury that can be had for the price.
I've begun my search and seem to find a lot of cars with roughly 150K miles selling for under $4K. I plan on checking these cars out in person in the near future and wonder if there is anything I need to look out for in particular. Do you recommend cylinder compression checks, etc. when looking at a car? Are there spots that are prone to rust?
Any advice is much appreciated.
I'm giving some thought to a first or second generation LS 400 to use as a commuter. The reliability of the 1UZ-FE, not to mentioned the rest of the car, is the main driver for my interest in the LS. I'm also keen on the luxury that can be had for the price.
I've begun my search and seem to find a lot of cars with roughly 150K miles selling for under $4K. I plan on checking these cars out in person in the near future and wonder if there is anything I need to look out for in particular. Do you recommend cylinder compression checks, etc. when looking at a car? Are there spots that are prone to rust?
Any advice is much appreciated.
11-20-11, 02:12 PM
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I am new here but let me help you out by telling you what I know about my UCF10 1991 model
I like the look the most out of all the years on my 1991 compared to a UCF20
the headlights on the UCF10 suck. badly The 93-95 models improved and the 96-2000 are pretty good
The A/C system on the UCF10 is the older type refrigerant and will require a conversion to the new one if you need ANY work done on them. They often need recharges when they are 20 years old. SO keep this in mind. but the A/C and heat works very very well in this car. in all years LS400 as well
Also while on a note of heating and cooling..the UCF 10 only has three fan speeds.....Low Med and tornado. The UCF20 all have variable speeds between this. It bothers me greatly
Also on heating and cooling/ the climate control display goes out often on the older ones. still works but cannot see the temp setting.
UCF10 models with pioneer sound systems do NOT have an external amp to tap in to for an aftermarket HU or to modify an ipod in solution. You must buy a new headunit and harness to get anything other than Cassette and radio.
The 1990-1993 models have an engine that will not be destroyed if the timing belt snaps. all other years will be destroyed if your belt snaps. I have peace of mind in this.
The engine all of our cars 1UZ-FE use is VERY durable even under abuse and neglect. I have seen stories of them lasting 500,000 miles with just regular maintenance and 870,000 miles with care. She may be hungry for gas but will run forever. These stories are in fact on here at CL. Not just rumors.
The UCF 20 will get better gas millage than me UCF10 will.
I feel that for whatever reason I can throw my UCF10 around curves and turns much more playful than a UCF20 can. Take that as you will.
they are both GREAT cars. these are just small things besides obvious styling I notice..
Also..the seats on the UCF20 are MUCH MUCH better than my UCF10 seats.
I like the look the most out of all the years on my 1991 compared to a UCF20
the headlights on the UCF10 suck. badly The 93-95 models improved and the 96-2000 are pretty good
The A/C system on the UCF10 is the older type refrigerant and will require a conversion to the new one if you need ANY work done on them. They often need recharges when they are 20 years old. SO keep this in mind. but the A/C and heat works very very well in this car. in all years LS400 as well
Also while on a note of heating and cooling..the UCF 10 only has three fan speeds.....Low Med and tornado. The UCF20 all have variable speeds between this. It bothers me greatly
Also on heating and cooling/ the climate control display goes out often on the older ones. still works but cannot see the temp setting.
UCF10 models with pioneer sound systems do NOT have an external amp to tap in to for an aftermarket HU or to modify an ipod in solution. You must buy a new headunit and harness to get anything other than Cassette and radio.
The 1990-1993 models have an engine that will not be destroyed if the timing belt snaps. all other years will be destroyed if your belt snaps. I have peace of mind in this.
The engine all of our cars 1UZ-FE use is VERY durable even under abuse and neglect. I have seen stories of them lasting 500,000 miles with just regular maintenance and 870,000 miles with care. She may be hungry for gas but will run forever. These stories are in fact on here at CL. Not just rumors.
The UCF 20 will get better gas millage than me UCF10 will.
I feel that for whatever reason I can throw my UCF10 around curves and turns much more playful than a UCF20 can. Take that as you will.
they are both GREAT cars. these are just small things besides obvious styling I notice..
Also..the seats on the UCF20 are MUCH MUCH better than my UCF10 seats.
Last edited by Patsum; 11-20-11 at 03:22 PM.
11-20-11, 04:07 PM
#4
There is no area in which the '98-00 is not significantly more reliable than the earlier chassis, though to be fair the difference to the 95-97 is less drastic than compared to the first generation 89-94 cars. Especially when the power+safety enhancements are taken into consideration is this more readily apparent.
11-20-11, 04:23 PM
#5
I greatly disagree Bill, having had a '95 for a couple years.
There is no area in which the '98-00 is not significantly more reliable than the earlier chassis, though to be fair the difference to the 95-97 is less drastic than compared to the first generation 89-94 cars. Especially when the power+safety enhancements are taken into consideration is this more readily apparent.
There is no area in which the '98-00 is not significantly more reliable than the earlier chassis, though to be fair the difference to the 95-97 is less drastic than compared to the first generation 89-94 cars. Especially when the power+safety enhancements are taken into consideration is this more readily apparent.
I was really comparing the 90-94 to the 95-97's....... I didnt think he had the funds for the later ones.
11-20-11, 04:36 PM
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i love my ucf10. haha
of course the ucf20 will have less problems then the ucf10 its a few years newer and they should have improved a little but with time anything can happen. they are basically the same man just drive both and depending on how you like the way each one look it is just up to preference.
either one is a good choice. goodluck man!
of course the ucf20 will have less problems then the ucf10 its a few years newer and they should have improved a little but with time anything can happen. they are basically the same man just drive both and depending on how you like the way each one look it is just up to preference.
either one is a good choice. goodluck man!
11-20-11, 04:59 PM
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I greatly disagree Bill, having had a '95 for a couple years.
There is no area in which the '98-00 is not significantly more reliable than the earlier chassis, though to be fair the difference to the 95-97 is less drastic than compared to the first generation 89-94 cars. Especially when the power+safety enhancements are taken into consideration is this more readily apparent.
There is no area in which the '98-00 is not significantly more reliable than the earlier chassis, though to be fair the difference to the 95-97 is less drastic than compared to the first generation 89-94 cars. Especially when the power+safety enhancements are taken into consideration is this more readily apparent.
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11-20-11, 05:01 PM
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One other piece of advice, if you get a '98 or newer LS400, avoid getting one with navigation. Lexus stopped publishing map data in 2005, and a 2005 data set will cost you about $300 if you can find it. I recently replaced my stock navigation in my '98 LS400 with a Pioneer AVIC Z130BT and the conversion would have been less expensive had I started with a non-navigation model LS.
11-20-11, 06:02 PM
#9
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Patsum did a darned good summary for a "newby". My understanding is that the 1994 LS engine is also non-interference. I had a timing belt break at 75,000 miles on the 90 LS I had and can verify that no damage was done.
My 90 LS felt much more "toss-able" on curves than my 2000 LS400 which actually handles better. I owned my 90 LS from new until 183,500 miles and my 2000 LS from 38,000 to its current 146,000 miles. In some ways the 90 LS seemed better (better fitting trim with smaller gaps) but the 2000 LS has been substantially more reliable.
I had to have a tow truck rescue me at least three times in the first 146,000 miles with the 90 LS but never with the 00 LS. More little things broke on the 90 LS than the 00 LS during the same miles. Overall the 98-up LS seems way more "robust" than the 90-94 LS and assume that the 95-97 is too since it shares the same underlying body with the 98-00.
Mechanically, the 95-97 LS is more like the 90-94 LS. The 98-00 LS400 seems more like the 01-03 LS430 in that it has the same 5-speed transmission, VVTi engine power rating and gadgets like VSC and (2000 only) brake assist.
Here is the best summary around about what changed year by year: http://www.lexls.com/info/lsgenerations.html
My 90 LS felt much more "toss-able" on curves than my 2000 LS400 which actually handles better. I owned my 90 LS from new until 183,500 miles and my 2000 LS from 38,000 to its current 146,000 miles. In some ways the 90 LS seemed better (better fitting trim with smaller gaps) but the 2000 LS has been substantially more reliable.
I had to have a tow truck rescue me at least three times in the first 146,000 miles with the 90 LS but never with the 00 LS. More little things broke on the 90 LS than the 00 LS during the same miles. Overall the 98-up LS seems way more "robust" than the 90-94 LS and assume that the 95-97 is too since it shares the same underlying body with the 98-00.
Mechanically, the 95-97 LS is more like the 90-94 LS. The 98-00 LS400 seems more like the 01-03 LS430 in that it has the same 5-speed transmission, VVTi engine power rating and gadgets like VSC and (2000 only) brake assist.
Here is the best summary around about what changed year by year: http://www.lexls.com/info/lsgenerations.html
11-20-11, 08:50 PM
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To chime in, I LOVE my UCF10 in all of her 21 year old glory. She has never failed me, although...
When it comes time to change your upper ball joints, Lexus says: "That's too damn bad, you have to buy an entire upper control arm assembly. Which we demand ~700 dollars for one side." I went with the Arnott aftermarket ones, and am extremely disappointed, the taper for the stud that slides through the steering knuckle is too thin, causing the knuckle to ride all the way up smashing the rubber boot, I had to space it out with washers to utilize the castle nut's retaining hole, it now clunks.. all the time. So, when it comes time to do that, pick up a set of Arnott upper control arms and just keep that stereo volume up.
The headlights are indeed rather poor. Then again, that's me comparing them to clear lens headlights. All fluted headlights are trashy in my opinion. I threw some DDM HIDs in (against PD's recommendation not to) and I can see everything, and with some conservative aiming, have found them to not be as annoying (confirmed by friends driving in front of me).
The seat's aren't great. But they're not bad. I'd like to see someone refurbish them, with new padding and such. Or throw caution to the wind and throw some mkIV supra seats in there or something,
Gas mileage on the UCF10 is pretty iffy. I average 300mi to a tank with 100,000 mile old spark plugs, I just found out that the last time the previous owner had them changed was at 60k ... and I get 16-18 around town. 22ish on the highway.
Watch out for gauge cluster issues, if you test drive one and things are off. Beware. Complicated and possibly costly repairs may ensue.
In my opinion solely based on looks... (98-00) > (90-94) > (95-97)
Good luck finding an LS, you won't be disappointed!
11-21-11, 05:11 AM
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Bahahahaha. I just cracked up SO good. Thank you for that! It's true! Especially if you put it on Hi and recirculate, game over.
To chime in, I LOVE my UCF10 in all of her 21 year old glory. She has never failed me, although...
When it comes time to change your upper ball joints, Lexus says: "That's too damn bad, you have to buy an entire upper control arm assembly. Which we demand ~700 dollars for one side." I went with the Arnott aftermarket ones, and am extremely disappointed, the taper for the stud that slides through the steering knuckle is too thin, causing the knuckle to ride all the way up smashing the rubber boot, I had to space it out with washers to utilize the castle nut's retaining hole, it now clunks.. all the time. So, when it comes time to do that, pick up a set of Arnott upper control arms and just keep that stereo volume up.
The headlights are indeed rather poor. Then again, that's me comparing them to clear lens headlights. All fluted headlights are trashy in my opinion. I threw some DDM HIDs in (against PD's recommendation not to) and I can see everything, and with some conservative aiming, have found them to not be as annoying (confirmed by friends driving in front of me).
The seat's aren't great. But they're not bad. I'd like to see someone refurbish them, with new padding and such. Or throw caution to the wind and throw some mkIV supra seats in there or something,
Gas mileage on the UCF10 is pretty iffy. I average 300mi to a tank with 100,000 mile old spark plugs, I just found out that the last time the previous owner had them changed was at 60k ... and I get 16-18 around town. 22ish on the highway.
Watch out for gauge cluster issues, if you test drive one and things are off. Beware. Complicated and possibly costly repairs may ensue.
In my opinion solely based on looks... (98-00) > (90-94) > (95-97)
Good luck finding an LS, you won't be disappointed!
To chime in, I LOVE my UCF10 in all of her 21 year old glory. She has never failed me, although...
When it comes time to change your upper ball joints, Lexus says: "That's too damn bad, you have to buy an entire upper control arm assembly. Which we demand ~700 dollars for one side." I went with the Arnott aftermarket ones, and am extremely disappointed, the taper for the stud that slides through the steering knuckle is too thin, causing the knuckle to ride all the way up smashing the rubber boot, I had to space it out with washers to utilize the castle nut's retaining hole, it now clunks.. all the time. So, when it comes time to do that, pick up a set of Arnott upper control arms and just keep that stereo volume up.
The headlights are indeed rather poor. Then again, that's me comparing them to clear lens headlights. All fluted headlights are trashy in my opinion. I threw some DDM HIDs in (against PD's recommendation not to) and I can see everything, and with some conservative aiming, have found them to not be as annoying (confirmed by friends driving in front of me).
The seat's aren't great. But they're not bad. I'd like to see someone refurbish them, with new padding and such. Or throw caution to the wind and throw some mkIV supra seats in there or something,
Gas mileage on the UCF10 is pretty iffy. I average 300mi to a tank with 100,000 mile old spark plugs, I just found out that the last time the previous owner had them changed was at 60k ... and I get 16-18 around town. 22ish on the highway.
Watch out for gauge cluster issues, if you test drive one and things are off. Beware. Complicated and possibly costly repairs may ensue.
In my opinion solely based on looks... (98-00) > (90-94) > (95-97)
Good luck finding an LS, you won't be disappointed!
Also, I am having my seats recovered with the factory look but new padding and leather...I will let you know if it brings up the lazy boy arm chair status to acceptable for me. I am sure when the seats were new they felt nicer by far.
Also, I am going to pick up some clear lens headlights for my 1991. I will also report back on light output.
Find a loved LS without tinting ghetto wheels and a PHAT soundsystem installed and you will see why when these came out 21 years ago they turned the market around.
11-21-11, 07:25 AM
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Wow, thanks to everyone for the advice! I really appreciate it.
I'm leaning heaving towards a UCF20. The '95-'97 models seem to fall into the right price point. I've got the funds for a new LS 400, I just don't want to spend the money on what will ultimately be a (very nice) beater. That said, it sounds like the '98-'00 models may make sense from a reliability perspective?
I'm leaning heaving towards a UCF20. The '95-'97 models seem to fall into the right price point. I've got the funds for a new LS 400, I just don't want to spend the money on what will ultimately be a (very nice) beater. That said, it sounds like the '98-'00 models may make sense from a reliability perspective?
11-21-11, 01:49 PM
#15
i chose my 97 based on looks and price point. getting a 98-up would have been over my budget but after learning more about these cars i should have saved up. generally newer cars have less mileage, better technology, and more safe. in this case the difference isn't that great, but the 98-up models did have a better motor VVTi, HIDs standard, traction control, just to name a few. i would personally stay away from the UCF10 since a 20 can be had for just a bit more dough. my $0.02.