bmoore

The '95-96 cars are curious. They don't have VVT and they have the same engine designation as the 1st gen cars. However, the engines ARE different.

I bought a '96 with 86k miles last year and I've been reading all I can about the timing belt service so that I could do it myself. In doing so, there are a couple things I found that I couldn't find _for sure_ in my digging.

1) The '95 and '96 engines ARE INTERFERENCE ENGINES. This has been discussed before, and there are a few posts from people that have lost motors due to timing belt breaks, but for those searching, here's a definitive answer.

Unfortunately, I know this because as I was installing the new belt, I turned the engine without the tensioner pin pulled and cam teeth jumped. This cause me to (panic a bit, then) pay super-close attention to the crank/cam gears as I rotated the assembly back to its proper orientation. As I was doing that, there was a point where I heard/felt the unmistakable sound of valve/piston contact. Thankfully I was turning the engine by hand and was being super careful, so no damage was done, but again, these are, without doubt, interference engines.

2) The timing belt guide posted on lexls for the first gen cars is NOT fully correct for the '95-06 cars. Once you get the crankshaft and cam gears lined up, you MUST rotate the crankshaft 50* so that the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley is in line with the bolt in the left side idler pulley. If you don't do this, the marks on your new timing belt will not line up properly, and you risk internal engine damage.

Hope this helps someone looking to do this themselves. I took my time and it was probably a 12 hour job for me. Without the tooth-jumping screw up it probably would have been about 9 hours. If I had to do it again, I could easily do it in 6 hours.

deanbrown

Thanks for the info - I'm going to do mine this summer. I don't suppose you took any pics or notes did you, which you could post here? I've seen an ok thread up to 94, but nothing for 95/96 (mine is a 96).

Did you replace anything else at the same time?

Did you get the belt from the dealership or elsewhere?

Thanks

bmoore

I had an aftermarket timing belt purchased, but it was 1 tooth off in its markings and I just didn't trust it, so I went to the local Lexus dealer and bought a factory one there. I planned on doing the water pump, idlers and seals, but everything looked so perfect (the car only has 88k miles and it's never seen anything but a climate-controlled garage), that I didn't want to go any further, since even the original timing belt looked like new.

Here's a picture of how the cam gears align with the crank rotated 50* and the crank timing mark pointing to the nut of the left idler (but the crank pulley has been removed by this point). Note that the timing alignment mark is on the INSIDE of the left cam gear, it took me a while to find it (it's the "center ridge" of the "three ridge" section inside the cam gear).

deanbrown

That is a superb picture! Probably a dumb question coming up, but is the radiator still in there at this point?

It would be just stonking if you could add a few labels and arrows, and then perhaps people could make this into the thread of reference for doing this job. It is badly needed.

Cheers,

Dean

Thermactor

iTrader: (1)

Probably not. The good news is that our radiator is very, very, very easy to remove.

Regarding the thread, I dunno... I've done a '95 AND a '96 timing belt, and.. well, I just lined up the timing marks. It took a while for me to do it with the cheap AutoZone belts because neither L-CAM, R-CAM nor the crank markings were there. Took a bit of trial and error but definitely no collision of piston and valve!

deanbrown

Sounds like a lexus TB would be worth the extra $.

btw is the thermostat behind that black pipe there in the middle?

Thermactor

iTrader: (1)

1) I was not prepared to spend $80, plus lead time, for the Lexus timing belt. My timing belt job cost $32 for the made in Italy AutoZone belt and $10 for the Tundra crank seal I put in. Good enough for me.

2) Yes, the thermostat is behind the black plastic (ugh) coolant elbow.

deanbrown

Did you put in a new water pump at the same time? OEM?

Mine is original at 225K.

Thermactor

iTrader: (1)

I bought my car with about 240,000 miles. The timing belt had been done at 120,000 by a Lexus dealer. They changed the water pump, cam seals, and idler roller. I saw the bill - it came to a cool $2,000.
I figured that I'd push the water pump and idler rollers another 30-40,000 miles, and see if I could get away with not changing them. It only takes an afternoon to tear it all down anyhow.
But in your case, with an original water pump, I think you really ought to change it when you do your timing belt. It's done more than it's fair share for the car by now.

tomeyeman

Awesome picture. Could you do me a HUGE favor and put an arrow on the left camshaft at where the timing mark is. This one looks just like mine (96 LS) but I'm having a damn of a time finding the mark. There is one on the back rim but I didn't see any mark on the INSIDE "center ridge".

An arrow will make my day Thanks.

bmoore

I put a box around the three ridges that make the left timing mark. If you look at the inside of the cam pulley, there are single ridges all they way around, EXCEPT here. The center of the middle ridge in this group of 3 is where you should line up the mark on the belt. Hope this helps.

tomeyeman

Okay, thank's. Awesome. I just got back from taking a look. Your right. There are 3 ridges there. But I also have a notch on the back rim that lines up right with that center ridge. That's what I have been using.

Sooooooo I have it lined up correct after all. So now I'm at a loss. Everything is lined up correct. It's been checked 4 times. But I still have a very rough running engine.

I'm this close (holding fingers 1 mm apart) to giving up and towing it in. Putting this timing belt on has been the most frustrating thing I think I've ever done on a car......(No I take that back--- it was getting a rear brake drum off of a 1955 Desoto--that was a PAIN!).....but this is close.

I just have no more ideas.

Hey, BMoore, one more question. One other thing I noticed is that my crankcase gear does not have a 'dot' to line up the timing belt line like I see in all the tutorials. Mine simple has a very distinct notch line but no dot. Does this sound right?

Thanks for your help.

bmoore

Getting the crank lined up is probably the most critical part. I first had an aftermarket timing belt, but its marks were off by 1 tooth from a Toyota original part, so I paid the extra for the factory part. The factory timing belt had more marks on it -- including 2 "slashes" next to the mark to line up with the crankshaft mark.

These two slashes ended up going on either side of the "dot" that you're talking about. As far as I know, that dot SHOULD be there. Also, keep in mind that you can have everything lined up perfectly, but if you've been rotating things, the crankshaft can be 180* out of sync.

When I did mine, I made a mistake and turned the engine (by hand) without the tensioner pulled. This caused the cam gears to jump a ton and I panicked. However, I paid attention to the number of revolutions I made with the crank, got the crank back to where it should be and then got the cam gears in place and it worked, but I agree -- it can be a stressful and pain in the *** operation.

One other thing -- did you / are you doing this with the crank rotated 50* past the timing marks? This is required on the '95-97 cars (probably more, but I know these cars for sure).

billydpowe

iTrader: (1)

I just done one of my 97's a couple of months ago, and YES you will want to do it all at the same time, if you pay someone or do it yourself, lot of work and lot of time.
my parts came from:
http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page247.html
everything fit perfect, and the car runs fantastic.
cost about 170. for everything. we lined it all up and marked the gears before removing the belt and we just R&R'ed the belt, didnt move the crank... no problem.

tomeyeman

Hmmm......okay. The first time I did not rotate 50 degrees. The second time, I did. So I thought for sure I was 100% on. But it ran exactly the same with or without the 50 degree rotation. Is it 180% off??? Damn, I didn't think of that. Can I simply rotate 180 and try it again? I did make sure the # 1 piston was TDC by inserting a long screwdriver in the plug hole and watching it rise (and then lower a bit after going 50 degrees past). Does that ensure I'm in the right place or could it still be 180 off?

I DO have an aftermarket belt with just 3 marks. Maybe THAT is my problem. I've got an official one one order. I might give it one more try with a good belt. Then the "dot" on the crank has me worried. I sure didn't see one. Just a nice pretty dash indentation. So maybe THAT is my problem. Maybe there is a dot hiding somewhere.

So I'll try a good belt and quadruptle check my crank mark. Hey, what else do I have to do in my free time? Seriously I work with the public all day. It's nice and relaxing to have my head in an engine......even when I have no idea what I'm doing

Thanks again. I'll let you know (along with the other lurkers reading) how it goes