ls400geek

I have a little comment, after reading years & hundreds of posts to this thread over the past hour, no one mentioned that the crush washer should be replaced each time you drain your fluid--as I understand it.

The Lexus dealership gave me a free crush washer when I bought the Type IV fluid from them ($6 a quart). I will make sure they give me a free one every time I buy fluid from them (every 5000 miles).

admire

Thanks a lot guys, i have been using bad transmission fluid on my LS400, SO BAD REALLY!

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

I just did my second drain and refill. Well, I had the Toyota dealer do it. I plan on doing this once a year. Shifting smooth as ever.

BobN54

I just finished a transmission pan cleaning and flush on my 1997, at 115K. I did not know the history of the transmission service. When I got the pan off and saw the perfect application of Toyota FIPG, it was a clue that this was the first time the pan had been off. The fluid had that worn brownish coloration and smell, though not burnt. I am glad I removed and cleaned the pan; they need it every 15 years or so. A few thoughts from my experience:

I made a gasket cutter from a 1" putty knife in about 10 minutes. I cold-bent the blade 3/4" from the end using a vise. I learned that the cheap ones from Dollar Tree break at 45 degrees, but a better quality one bent to about 85 degrees before being on the cusp of breaking - that angle is good enough. One could anneal the blade to make it more bendable, if desired. I sharpened the bottom edge of the bent blade section; the side facing the pan. Starting at the rear of the pan, I worked forward on each side, pushing the knife using hand pressure and light taps with a small hammer. Once about 2/3 was cut on each side the pan pulled loose easily. No sweat.

On my 1997, I do not see how the pan can come free with the exhaust brace in place. Not mentioned in the Gen 1 transmission filter change tutorial, I removed the brace. The nuts on the exhaust pipe flanges are a PPITA - not enough room for a 14 mm box end wrench. A line wrench fit on the right side, but only an open end would fit on the left. Thus the bolts must be turned from the head end, and they are tight; not to mention possibly rusted. The good news is new bolts are readily available and cheap from Toyota; PN 91512-81035 bolt, flange. They are used on Highlanders as well as LS400's. I found new flange nuts at True Value.

Also not mentioned in the tutorial, I found it made maneuvering the pan easier, especially going back in, to get the dipstick tube out of the way. It's only one bolt, beneath the master cylinder, and a 12mm speed wrench will take care of it.

I did choose to replace the strainer/filter. The original had been on there for 15 years, after all. It was not clogged, but the cork and rubber gaskets on it were rock hard.

I used the Fram FT1191A kit. The filter is made in China; but after careful comparison with the OEM Toyota part I feel it is a well made part. The seaming was, in fact, better that that on the OEM part. The fit was perfect. The "A" suffix indicated this kit comes with an "ultra cork" gasket, which appears to be a sort of synthetic cork and rubber composition. It is suppose to be better than the typical black rubber gaskets that come in the standard FT1191 kit and the Wix 58603 kit.

I was on the fence - to FIPG or use a gasket. I decided to use the gasket just because - well mainly because I just did our 1997 Camry and the gasket on that works fine. If it doesn't work out, I'll do it over with FIPG. Because I was using a gasket and not FIPG, I chose to use a pan bolt torque value of 43 in-lbs that is specified for the gasket'ed Camry instead of the 65 in-lb specified for the FIPG'ed LS400. 65 in-lb is a bit tight on a gasket.

To clarify the flushing connections, you disconnect the rubber transmission cooling line on the lower left side of the radiator. Run a hose from the nipple on the radiator to a bucket. This will flush the transmission and the cooler in the radiator. I was careful to measure how much fluid was drained and flushed out, and put the same amount of Type-IV back. Type IV is definitely not the same as Dexron; distinctly different odor. I paid $7.75 / qt. at my local dealer, FWIW. If Toyota ever discontinues Type IV, I'll switch to Valvoline synthetic, which is listed as Type IV compatible.

Jspec603

I've got some positive input to add to this thread as well. After reading this when I picked up my 95 late last summer, I've been doing the 2qt drain and fill with each oil change (I do these myself). It truly does bring the transmission back to life with the new fluid. Sadly, I can really feel it go south as I get toward the next oil change. However, I'm only on my 3rd change as I don't have a very long commute. Perhaps as I get to the 5th or 6th change the fluid will be mostly new and I will no longer get that slow shift feeling as I get toward the next change.

I also am paying about $7.75ish a qt at my local Toyota dealer for the Type IV as well. I have not purchased a new drain bolt as someone had said in this thread at one point or another. A good washer/gasket and proper torque should do it just fine.

xhifer

My 98 ls400 currently has dexron iii. Is it okay to do drain and fills every 100 miles with t-iv until all old dexron iii is out? Ive been told yes but want to confirm that it is okay to mix.

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

a full fluid replacement would be recco'd. The clutch packs will wear incorrectly in the wrong fluid so there's no benefit to changing it slowly.

LScowboyLS

According to 20 year Aisin transmission engineer Paul Diegelmann I just got off the telephone with, as well as my own 15 years of experience with the AW35-50LS (A650E) transmission, this entire statement is grossly incorrect.

The clutch packs on this wet-clutch Aisin transmission are a completely non-wear design, even after 300k miles! Unless the transmission has serious internal issues, the clutch packs will mic out to their original thickness, even at the end of the transmission service life!

Except for shift comfort (how soft the shift is) there are many lubricants that will function just fine and are completely safe in this most bulletproof transmission design of all time, including T-II, T-IV, Dexron II, Dexron III, the Valvoline mentioned and many others - high quality OEM transmission fluids vary mainly in small viscosity differences and amount of friction modifiers employed. - So overall performance will vary a bit, but all are safe. Taken to the extreme, if you accidentally put a good quality 5W-30 motor oil in this transmission , at the right level, you wouldn't actually do any damage! (I am not recommending this long term, however it would work fine in an emergency.)

If it has been a long time since the transmission was serviced (i.e. many years or 100k miles, for example) there are very real dangers of shocking the new transmission with all new fluid. (you have probably had a friend or acquaintance who had their transmission "flushed", only to have the transmission fail within the next year - this is why this happens - please don't worry about some Dexron III in there and change it a little at a time via drain and fill, no more often than every 6 months. This will "flush" the transmission over the course of a couple of years, in a very safe manner. - pulling the pan and changing the filter screen is not a bad idea, and the debris you find in the pan will tell you a lot about overall transmission condition. - Just skip the FIPG on reassembly, unless you are a Tahara robot!

You need to have successfully rebuilt a few of these and understand the underlying engineering of how the Aisin A-series transmission actually works, before doling out transmission advice here on Club Lexus - same reason you don't see me giving advice on how to slam a car or recommending the offset for a 22 inch wheel!



TSB from Toyota recommending Dexron III for many Aisin transmissions of this identical design, such as 97 LS400 which is this same transmission less one forward gear.

here is a look at your clutch packs:

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

Now let me break this down for you bill:

1. Paul Diegelmann (and/or Diegelman) comes up with exactly 0 (zero) results when googled for anything relating to a transmission. For someone who was a designer, or so involved, this is unusual but not extremely. However to use him as a cited source without any reference is pointless to the extreme. This is not the first time you've mentioned this person, nor is this the first time I've asked for some kind of actual reference that you have not come up with.
2. The purpose of a clutch pack in a transmission requires it to be a wearable component. Yes, even in a "wet-pack" clutch. Minimal wear is actually the correct term, in most modern applications.
3. Wear does not mean purely the removal of friction compound from the face of the clutch, but also refers to the degradation of the friction compound's effectiveness due to fluid oxidation/viscosity change, surface glazing, and several other factors. Again, in a properly working trans with the correct fluid and loaded properly, the wear over 100-200k miles should be minimal (though will still be present).
4. This claim supported by what? There are multiple people here who believe otherwise, and hundreds of posts since the forum started documenting the minor and major issues with the trans using any other fluid than T-IV.
5. Those "very real dangers" are true when referencing a power flush (ie-fluid pumped through the system under pressure). A fluid exchange however, is generally quite safe, as the pressure levels are within normal limits, solenoids and valves are operating, and etc.
   
   If it was just a drain and fill that repalced his fluid with 2QTs of Dexron, then a flush is likely not needed, a couple of drain and fills and the percentage of D3 remaining in the mix will be minimal, and unlikely to have long term effect. However if it was flushed with Dexron, or if OP just wants to be thorough, a full fluid exchange (non-powered flush) is perfectly safe to recommend (I would).
6. Toyota, in their infinite wisdom, felt that FIPG would make a better, more reliable trans pan gasket over cork gaskets. They likely took into consideration the aptitude of the average worker when they made this decision, as evidenced by the fact that they STILL do not make cork trans pan gaskets for the LS400, and indeed continue to use FIPG in place of preformed gaskets on current vehicles (as do many other manufacturers). If you think that you know better than what Lexus/Toyota has been doing for the past 2+ decades then feel free. In my opinion FIPG is completely safe and perfectly reasonable to work with if you take your time, properly prep the surface, and let it cure properly.
7. This is personal and a petty insult. You know nothing of me nor my experiences, do not pretend to.
8. Are you the one who spent so many years working on/tearing apart these transmissions? If so I strongly urge you to write an article or a book (be sure to cite your sources/shops you worked at/impetus for tearing apart so many transmissions) and get published, or provide some convincing source other than a phone call to someone and perhaps I will believe you at your word. Until then, data is key.
9. That's not a Toyota TSB (note the inconsistent formatting and the fact it looks nothing like a Toyota TSB. also no TSB number.). This is nothing more than a reference document a dealership or some other third party created, and is incorrect.
   
   
   The '95-00 FSMs (I have 3, '95, '99, and '00) and the owner's manuals NEVER specify Dexron fluids for the transmission. Ever. Since I like sources so much, here's a copy of the relevant section of the '95 Owners Manual, (P208 section 1 "Type T-II") http://drivers.lexus.com/t3Portal/do...df/6-3_218.pdf

Works Cited:

• Lingesten, Niklas. "Wear Behavior of Wet Clutches." Thesis. Lulea University of Technology, n.d. Print.
• 1995 Lexus LS400 Owner's Manual. N.p.: Toyota U.S.A., 1995. Print.
• Anderson, A. E. "Friction and Wear of Paper Type Wet Friction Materials." SAE Technical Paper 720521 (1972): n. pag. Print.
• 1999 Lexus LS400 Factory Repair Manual.N.p.: Toyota U.S.A., 1999. Print.

xhifer

How do you drain all the fluid without a flush?

python

iTrader: (4)

repeat as necessary until its nice and clean

Yamae

The slip-controlled lock-up clutch system used for the AT A650E needs special additives that are different from D-III ATF. The basic fluid is mostly the same but additives are totally different.

Toyota T-IV ATF contains additives such as Ca-sulfonate and special friction modifiers that are usually not contained in the D-III. Some D-III contains some of those additives but the amount is not enough. Without those or limited amount, the AT does not last long enough as is designed.

When the AT is quite new, it works mostly OK with D-III. But this damages the slip-controlled lock-up clutch system quickly and the AT behaves as is not expected soon.

So stick to the T-IV ATF if you want keep your LS400 or Celsior longer.

LScowboyLS

To clarify, I was not meaning to advocate that anyone use D-III in their transmission, however I think that folks should not panic and flush a system that has had D-III or even T-IV in it for a long time, - Just work it out slowly via drain & fill, as I have seen many cases where a complete fluid change on a transmission that hasn't had regular fluid changing will loosen damaging particles and can result in premature failure. I am not referring just to a "power flush", but to any complete fluid replacement in a transmission that has not been serviced in a long time.

If your transmission has been maintained with regular fluid changes all along, then completely changing the fluid to the optimal T-IV should be done immediately if a less than optimal type is put in, but in the case of someone who had for example, D-III installed for a long time (many years or 100K for example), the new T-IV needs to be introduced over a period of time, to avoid this "shocking" and the common premature transmission failure associated with it, which is well known among folks in the transmission repair field.

xhifer

I just did a drain and fill. Drained the fluid and then put 2 qts back in. Went for a 5 mile drive and the transmission slipped and jerked starting from a stop. I drove it back and checked the fluid level. It was below the hot mark so i added another 3/4 quarts. Went for another drive and all was fine.

Did the slip and jerk plus low fluid level cause any damage? During the whole drive, the car felt like it had no power.

How the hell do you check the transmission fluid correctly? Its so hard to pinpoint!!!

LScowboyLS

No, short term low fluid will cause slipping/jerking, but does not do permanent damage just on a test drive

the fluid level you described is low, but not critically low

you fill it using the cold mark on the dipstick, then you take it on a test drive for say 20 minutes or so, enough to get the transmission fully hot, then you slowly add fluid up to the hot mark with car on extremely level ground, after stopping and shifting through the various gears, ending up in Park

I would then check it again in a similar fashion the following day, once again with it fully hot after an extended drive

try and not overfill it, though slightly overfilled will not hurt anything, and is preferable to underfilled