Thouroghly disgusted with intake mod! :(
03-20-08, 11:35 AM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thouroghly disgusted with intake mod! :(
Sooooooooooo..........
I was wanting to do the "JBrady" type intake mod to get a little sound and maybe some performance out of my cute lil LS. I didn't want to just cut things up right away, just incase some fowl consequences arose, so I decided to buy some door trim, and try the "Lexkost" type mod first.
THANK GOD I DIDN'T CUT ANYTHING UP!
First off, I have to admit I LOVED the sound of the mod. Totally silent then when I punch it, it would just SCREAM!
But one thing that profusely grinded my gears was the fact that I LOST 2 MPG!!!! That's right folks, yes I boosted here and there, but no more than normal, but I just decided to give my car the benefit of the doubt and fill up again, and go VERY easy on it. SAME MILEAGE
I went from averaging about 21-22mpg highway/city mix. To about 18.3 with the same driving...
I did nothing else to the vehicle, just this intake mod, then my mileage went to crap.
Has anyone else experienced a LOSS in mileage from doing some type of intake mod???
If anybody has any thoughts or ideas as to why that would be cool!
I was wanting to do the "JBrady" type intake mod to get a little sound and maybe some performance out of my cute lil LS. I didn't want to just cut things up right away, just incase some fowl consequences arose, so I decided to buy some door trim, and try the "Lexkost" type mod first.
THANK GOD I DIDN'T CUT ANYTHING UP!
First off, I have to admit I LOVED the sound of the mod. Totally silent then when I punch it, it would just SCREAM!
But one thing that profusely grinded my gears was the fact that I LOST 2 MPG!!!! That's right folks, yes I boosted here and there, but no more than normal, but I just decided to give my car the benefit of the doubt and fill up again, and go VERY easy on it. SAME MILEAGE
I went from averaging about 21-22mpg highway/city mix. To about 18.3 with the same driving...
I did nothing else to the vehicle, just this intake mod, then my mileage went to crap.
Has anyone else experienced a LOSS in mileage from doing some type of intake mod???
If anybody has any thoughts or ideas as to why that would be cool!
03-20-08, 11:42 AM
#2
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I have done the same type of mod and still get great mileage. From what I have read on here over time regarding people doing this and getting lower mileage or just people getting low mileage without doing htis type of mod seems to related to the pre 1998 non VVTI engine. I get 25-27 on the highway and 18-20 in the city on repeated vacations and extended day trips.
I'd say switch back if it bothers you that much.
I'd say switch back if it bothers you that much.
03-20-08, 11:46 AM
#3
Lexus Champion
I have the Lexkost mod and trans reprogram and the muffler delete and 20" wheels and I get 20mpg highway/city mix.
The problem is the intake mod causes you to put your foot in it more and causes the loss.
The problem is the intake mod causes you to put your foot in it more and causes the loss.
03-20-08, 11:55 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Yeah I already went back to stock. 2mpg is a lot when you're talking about a +20gal tank.
I wasn't hitting the gas anymore than before specifically to see if that was the problem. I don't understand why that caused me to lose over 2mpg. Isn't it supposed to increase efficiency??
I wasn't hitting the gas anymore than before specifically to see if that was the problem. I don't understand why that caused me to lose over 2mpg. Isn't it supposed to increase efficiency??
03-20-08, 12:03 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
I did this mod for more power and higher shifting points...Plus so I can walk away from the guys with the VVTI engines on the freeways.
Gas milage was not the intent.
Good thing you did not cut the air box like someother people do , that is the reason I did it my way.
If you want to increase mileage , you have to go a different route.
Gas milage was not the intent.
Good thing you did not cut the air box like someother people do , that is the reason I did it my way.
If you want to increase mileage , you have to go a different route.
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03-20-08, 02:23 PM
#11
I'll have to agree with avalon, I havent sen a loss in MPG
...I get about 17MPG in the city where my campus is since the traffic is similar to NY, but back home I get about 19.5-20 MPG City/Highway mix...and I can average as much as 28.6 MPG on a 400 mile trip at 75MPH.
...I get about 17MPG in the city where my campus is since the traffic is similar to NY, but back home I get about 19.5-20 MPG City/Highway mix...and I can average as much as 28.6 MPG on a 400 mile trip at 75MPH.
03-20-08, 09:24 PM
#12
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Looses in mileage is also losses in performance.
The base for any performance gain is to re-appropriate the energy being used inefficiently to turn gears or losses through heat friction , vacuum and so on to then be for turning the wheels instead.
That is the reason why a short arm of any sort is garbage because any engine temperature air is a loss of power and mileage as it is basic physics.
If it is not a cold air set up with a filter or inlet outside of the engine bay such as behind the bumper it is a waste of time. You might as well be putting blue washer nozzles on your hood (i.e. rice , in the tuner world). It makes a very nice sound and causes increased throttle response from the reduction in restrictions . So while your cfm is increased the potential by ingesting warm to hot air reduces the power and increases carbon to more than it was with the stock intake.
Any good part will increase power and mileage at the same time. Unless it is a diff or other ratio changer which is not adding just moving baskets.
The base for any performance gain is to re-appropriate the energy being used inefficiently to turn gears or losses through heat friction , vacuum and so on to then be for turning the wheels instead.
That is the reason why a short arm of any sort is garbage because any engine temperature air is a loss of power and mileage as it is basic physics.
If it is not a cold air set up with a filter or inlet outside of the engine bay such as behind the bumper it is a waste of time. You might as well be putting blue washer nozzles on your hood (i.e. rice , in the tuner world). It makes a very nice sound and causes increased throttle response from the reduction in restrictions . So while your cfm is increased the potential by ingesting warm to hot air reduces the power and increases carbon to more than it was with the stock intake.
Any good part will increase power and mileage at the same time. Unless it is a diff or other ratio changer which is not adding just moving baskets.
03-20-08, 10:23 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Yes I still used the cold air diverter. And intake are suppoesed to improve mileage by improving "efficiency". My buddy put an intake on his 06 VW GLI and went from averaging 34 to 38 highway.
Skp you hit the nail on the head, yeah I got some sound and yes inproved throttle response, but obviously something was being hindered. Thanks a lot heat! lol
So I put my intake back together the way the good Lord had intended, and it runs GREAT. It feels a lot smoother and quicker than it did with the "Lexkost" mod. It seems a lot more torquey when I punch it.
Oh yeah and by the way, I ordered some mufflers, these things are beautiful! I'll post pics when I get them in a few days
Skp you hit the nail on the head, yeah I got some sound and yes inproved throttle response, but obviously something was being hindered. Thanks a lot heat! lol
So I put my intake back together the way the good Lord had intended, and it runs GREAT. It feels a lot smoother and quicker than it did with the "Lexkost" mod. It seems a lot more torquey when I punch it.
Oh yeah and by the way, I ordered some mufflers, these things are beautiful! I'll post pics when I get them in a few days
03-20-08, 11:29 PM
#14
Putting on an intake doesn't automatically improve efficiency. If the intake is already well designed, slapping a non-OEM unit may hinder performance/fuel economy. A well designed setup will consist of maximum ratio of air volume and velocity. Lexus vehicles for the most part have pretty darn good intake system already. Also note that the ECU may take notice that you have more air coming in the engine, so it'll add more fuel to keep the air/fuel ratio consistent. Otherwise you'll be running too lean.
RMM use to make the same kind of intake for the GS400. It's basically the OEM setup, except it has a cone filter attached to it. The car dyno'ed 5whp less across the bandwidth.
RMM use to make the same kind of intake for the GS400. It's basically the OEM setup, except it has a cone filter attached to it. The car dyno'ed 5whp less across the bandwidth.
03-21-08, 11:50 AM
#15
From my Mustang days intake mods were something you did on the way home from the car purchase.. --
Saw alot of variations, and the general consensus is the modifying the efficiency of the engine gave potential to better, yes BETTER, fuel economy.
I will admit the Mustangs factory intake setup was just screaming for a modification, so that has alot to do with such drastic increases in fuel economy, but it goes much the same for any car.
The LS's intake is actually setup fairly well. With the intake ported around to the grill, air directed from outside through filter, into engine.
Common fault with this setup, is the length and curves the air must overcome, and the somewhat restrictive factory intake filter.
I would say a custom mod that has proper puping down through a cut out hole or foglight hole in aftermarket bumper would be the best location for intake. Have the filter either fairly close to entry port, or close to intake manifold where it currently sits.. Does do alot of good in the middle of a design.
My bottom line here, is generally if you properly increase airflow, of an equal or cooler temperature air than it previously got.. Fuel economy WILL go up. (**With normal driving**)
If you open up the exhaust, -- Fuel economy will go up **With normal driving** -- (Taking into account backpressure needs, and providing proper mufflers and pipe size).
Actally increasing the fuel pump and injector size slightly has made fuel economy go up on some engines I've seen. (not an LS) -- Sounds counterintuitive..
but I have seen some stock 225hp engines, modified with bolton's to say, 345hp or so,.. Before any major HP adders were put on -- And we had a good net increase of 6.5 - 7.5 mpg in fuel economy with a light foot , one tank, test. (Of course after that the purpose was not fuel economy, and the mods shifted into less fuel friendly variety.)
And the pedal was always being smashed for the strip,.. depending on if it was a daily driver/track mix,.. Or a daily driver with no track... or a track car only.
With the daily drivers of any kind we would take a little more reserved approach in how to gain the HP that also left fuel economy slightly above factory specs. Sometimes when they wanted to push 400hp out of a stock block with say a Vortech A-Trim, we got it back to about equal with stock mpg.
As it does take more fuel to produce more power 'eventually'.. You can only go so far without pushing in a bigger fuel pump, injectors, and dialing things up. But 50-100hp is easily done without going that far.
All that is out of the scope of an air intake mod,.. but the principle is the same imo --
With gas prices these days,.. it isn't worth a hack type of mod -- (No offense to anyone) -- But allowing warmer air in, and possibly restricting it a low speeds.. causing a 2mpg loss.. is 50miles or so off your tank,.. nearly 10$. It adds up, but if you aren't just hurting for money then no big deal,.. you have to weigh is this worth it? Or is it not?
Go back to the drawing board and try to pull air from a different source. I bet you can come up with a performance increase with economy increase as well, if not keeping it the same at minimum.
--Saw alot of variations, and the general consensus is the modifying the efficiency of the engine gave potential to better, yes BETTER, fuel economy.
I will admit the Mustangs factory intake setup was just screaming for a modification, so that has alot to do with such drastic increases in fuel economy, but it goes much the same for any car.
The LS's intake is actually setup fairly well. With the intake ported around to the grill, air directed from outside through filter, into engine.
Common fault with this setup, is the length and curves the air must overcome, and the somewhat restrictive factory intake filter.
I would say a custom mod that has proper puping down through a cut out hole or foglight hole in aftermarket bumper would be the best location for intake. Have the filter either fairly close to entry port, or close to intake manifold where it currently sits.. Does do alot of good in the middle of a design.
My bottom line here, is generally if you properly increase airflow, of an equal or cooler temperature air than it previously got.. Fuel economy WILL go up. (**With normal driving**)
If you open up the exhaust, -- Fuel economy will go up **With normal driving** -- (Taking into account backpressure needs, and providing proper mufflers and pipe size).
Actally increasing the fuel pump and injector size slightly has made fuel economy go up on some engines I've seen. (not an LS) -- Sounds counterintuitive..
but I have seen some stock 225hp engines, modified with bolton's to say, 345hp or so,.. Before any major HP adders were put on -- And we had a good net increase of 6.5 - 7.5 mpg in fuel economy with a light foot , one tank, test. (Of course after that the purpose was not fuel economy, and the mods shifted into less fuel friendly variety.)
And the pedal was always being smashed for the strip,.. depending on if it was a daily driver/track mix,.. Or a daily driver with no track... or a track car only.
With the daily drivers of any kind we would take a little more reserved approach in how to gain the HP that also left fuel economy slightly above factory specs. Sometimes when they wanted to push 400hp out of a stock block with say a Vortech A-Trim, we got it back to about equal with stock mpg.
As it does take more fuel to produce more power 'eventually'.. You can only go so far without pushing in a bigger fuel pump, injectors, and dialing things up. But 50-100hp is easily done without going that far.
All that is out of the scope of an air intake mod,.. but the principle is the same imo --
With gas prices these days,.. it isn't worth a hack type of mod -- (No offense to anyone) -- But allowing warmer air in, and possibly restricting it a low speeds.. causing a 2mpg loss.. is 50miles or so off your tank,.. nearly 10$. It adds up, but if you aren't just hurting for money then no big deal,.. you have to weigh is this worth it? Or is it not?
Go back to the drawing board and try to pull air from a different source. I bet you can come up with a performance increase with economy increase as well, if not keeping it the same at minimum.