Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Yup they are -- but they are similar as well. If you ever get around to doing a DIY on the cluster,.. be nice to somehow include the differences on the clusters.. so people wouldn't be limited to two yeares of tutorial. I believe you have an older model? IE: the first production design,.. a 92 right?

Anyhow -- Yup, we need to get a DIY. If my cluster was having problems I would do it on the caps for sure -- Someone has to to do it eventually. Why not the OP here -- Grab a camera, go buy/order the capacitors -- Do a DIY on the cap replacements with tons of pictures. See what results you get from replacing them.

Then work from there, and do more DIY's on anything else you do, ie: Needle paint.

Just basically, if you end up doing any of this yourself, take a bunch of pictures of what you do and write up a tutorial. Or send them to me and a basic overview of what you did and I'll make one for you

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

All of it.

Think you could pull your cluster and get out a digital camera? Take close up pictures of the capacitors and say replace this one, this one this one, etc .. Circle them in photoshop or MSpaint (mspaint is on every windows machine).. Take close ups of the Caps used, and yes, tell us where to buy them.

People get confused on some of the electronic sites -- Be nice to list the caps like:

25v UV (blah blah capacitor) -- Click this link .

15uV Capacitor for (fuel gauge) -- Click this link to buy/locate.

Links directly to the capcitors.. cause even searching for the caps isn't easy on the site I went to.

Then maybe a tip on how to snip the old 'bad' one, and solder in the new one. What to avoid on snipping, what to avoid/do on soldering in the area. (I know how to solder,.. but you know just little tips).

If that is too much..

Give us the capacitor list, with ratings, and where to buy. (The links to each capacitor would be exceptionally fantastic though).

LILEVO

iTrader: (1)

newark.com did not have the caps for the fuel gauge or the dark cluster. I got both of those off of ebay.

The remaining caps I got from newark and replaced to be on the safe side (6-12 capacitors)

I bought my 4.7 uf 25v cap off of ebay since newark.com did not have those in stock. I may have a few extra of these if anyone is interested. This is for C142 which has to do with the slow moving fuel gauge.

http://cgi.ebay.com/electrolytic-rad...QQcmdZViewItem

As for the flickering and dark cluster due to cold temperature, located on the top board, C212 10uf 16v is the specification. I may have a few of these as well, otherwise ebay is a cheap source.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Electrolytic-Cap...QQcmdZViewItem

These are the exact ones I bought when I replaced my C212 cap last fall.

drewkaree

What I'd like to see is something along these lines:

1. Cap # relates to/solves/partially solves (issue)
2. Cap # is (insert cap specs)
3. Cap # can be found (insert vendor)
4. If one cap partially solves an issue, what are/is the other cap(s) needed to fully solve it
5. Location of the caps on a pic

Replacing EVERY cap might not be necessary, although I agree with the theory of "since you've got it out and are already working on it", so it'd be nice to see what deals with what in case someone doesn't want to do more repairs than are necessary in their case.

Since I've got two posts I wanted to address, I'm attaching a pic of something I noticed today in each one.

drewkaree

I can't recall how to "read" capacitors, but each of those colored bands on the cap relate to some spec for the cap itself. On the cap work I've done in the past, they were MUCH larger, and for very specific purposes so that I only had to call up the supplier (really, just a guy who supplied us with them for the hobby) and tell him the color of the cap and which of 4 markings the cap was.

These were "D" cell battery-sized caps and were much easier to work with, but in that instance, you'd desolder each of the legs, pull it out of the board, and solder the new one back in. I'm fairly confident it's at least a similar process, but with far less "wiggle room" since these are so much smaller.

Whatever I do to my vehicles, I always take at least a handful of pics. It helps me in case I have to stop what I'm doing right in the middle, or perhaps if I can't remember how something came apart. If/when I address my needles, seeing as how I've got a 2nd gen, I promise a pic breakdown of how the instrument panel comes apart.

======================


Here's the second pic I took this morning while on my way to work. I noticed the actual split in the paint/coating/whatever on the needle. You can see it clearly inside the "O" in this pic, and if you look at the other pic, you can see that that's almost the exact spot where the needle goes dark.

LILEVO

iTrader: (1)

I think you are thinking of resistors. Capacitors don't have any colored bands. The only two issues that I know of that are fixed with capacitors are the two that I listed above. Fuel gauge and the flickering/dark cluster.

The needles are a different issue.

5ofakind

Please dont get me wrong here.....but this thread is starting to go in the same direction as the "13" page thread.....

Lets stick to straight questions here.....

Where can the paint be procured ????

Next step...a tutorial to accomplish the fix........

sonyman

Not true. They don't usually, but they can. Speaking of which, don't cheap out on capacitors. Try to at least match the tolerance values of the original capacitors with any replacement capacitors. It's all for the sake of longevity.

drewkaree

Agreed. Seems to happen in every single thread on this topic.

Am I understanding this correctly that the needle itself is a cold cathode tube (albeit smaller than any cold cathode I've ever seen)?

As far as the paint, I have found several sources and several different kinds. I've only read one success story from a thread LexLS posted in a while back where a guy used the defogger fix kit "paint" to get his needles working again.

Given that he never posted before/after pics, I don't want to say that he was lying, but like the old saying "I'm from Missouri....."

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Yup the cluster is so 'complicated' seemingly it creates sub topics within a topic.

So once we do get the answers we are seeking, we will create another topic a 'DIY' (infosource) topic with the first few posts being pictures of all things involved, cap lists, vendors, how to do it from A to Z.. and so on.

So far we don't have the information, so everyone is just talking like they did/do in the other long **** thread. can't stop it -- Because no one has the information (and those who might aren't sharing or aren't visiting this forum).

So we have to experiment and find it out on our own.

The paint, no one knows yet.. Someone does though -- It isn't rocket science so it will be found out eventually.

The caps, are known,.. no one has taken the time to put together an organized listing of what we need. Again: Cap stats, for what issue(s), where to buy. It is really simple.

It needs to be made simple, and it will be done!

I, for example, have two caps on the way for the backlighting and fuel gauge. I will take pics of the cluster removal and actually taking the old caps off, and soldering the new caps on. Close ups (if the camera will do it) of cap ratings and looks.. so people can get a good idea of what is going on.

We all know pictures are worth a thousand words (more like 100,000) --

If I had more information, I would do all the caps, and make a DIY with them all .. But I don't. So maybe we can piece together everyone's individual efforts. Say, get someone on trying to find the conducive paint and then applying it (taking pictures) - it works, post the DIY. Combine my cap DIY, someone else does other caps, takes pictures -- Combine that one. Then maybe redo one comprehensive DIY and sticky the thing.

Would take the existing thread(s) and allow them to float off into oblivion, with just a mention of the Jim walkers for those who aren't inclined electronically (mechanically) to do the fix(es).

Take care,

LexLS

Yes they are very tiny cold cathodes, I've said this many times.

So you've found more sources for paint, excellent. What are they, where do I buy them and how much? Links?

When it warms up more here I'll be able to use my workshop again comfortably. I'll break out my test cluster and do a tut for 90-92. Then someone with a 93-94 cluster can take pics of theirs and note the different values. In another thread I had a guy confirm what caps to replace on 90-92 clusters to solve the slow moving fuel gauge. We're getting close to having a very nice solution for all these cluster issues

jlp93

Good stuff!

Really looking forward to your writeup and pics!

drewkaree

http://www.stewmac.com

http://www.action-electronics.com

http://www.semicro.org

http://lessemf.com

I don't know if these will work or not, but at least there's more than one to investigate, and perhaps one will end up being better/cheaper than picking up the defroster kit

There's more that I found, but they cost even MORE than what's in those links, so I think it'd be cost prohibitive to even look at 'em unless a person is looking to join Jim in doing this as a side business.

I'm thinking the 3rd link is the least expensive possiblity, as well as having an already-black option, and the 4th link being the 2nd-best (but far more expensive) possibility.

If none of those seem like they'd work, what're some characteristics/specs I should be looking for in conductive paint?

RickyGee

I have a 94 LS400 and have been through the gage background lights issue some years ago and had to replace the C212 capacitor on the power supply board. There's a very good description of how to do the work with pictures on a UK site at http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/for...hp/t26776.html
Now, the needle in my speedo went dark. I have pulled the gage cluster apart and discovered that the little fluorescent bulb (the cold cathode as Toyota calls it) was cracked, and it broke in two when touched gently. Drat.
I really dont think any paint will fix those tubes, but I will await the findings from the pioneers who will try this, but I think it is about the same as trying to fix one of those 4' fluorescent tubes that has reached the end of its service life; your just stuck having to replace it.

I hope to find someplace that will sell just the needle, as the gage works fine, but I had a devil of a time finding the LCD panels years ago, so I think this will be a real challenge. But when I do, I'll post the info and the how-to with a couple of pics.

Also, I've noticed that the needle sticks ever so gently in the ZERO position, as though there is a slight magnetic attraction in the workings at that point, and I intend to investigate that while I'm at it. I'll let you know what I find, but it may relate to the sticking problem noted by others. -Rick

RickyGee

The UK site info is quite specific as to capacitor and cause. I found the issue with cold sensitivity with C212 and actually made a heater out of an incandescent light to warm the little bugger through a winter until I could figure our what it was and what value it was. I actually replced it with a 47uf 25v capacitor and it works fine.

The info on the other site is:
C142 (big Board) was 4.7 UF, 25V
C147 (Also on the big board) was 10 UF, 50V
C212 (Small Board) 10 UF, 16 V

C212 cures the backgroud lights problem, and C147 and C142 cures the fuel gage problem.

Picture: http://apaqdigital.com/ls400/instrument_circuit.jpg

Now, to find a source for tiny flourescent bulbs... -Rick