My 94 LS could never make it thru the cobblestone streets & alleys where my sister resides in Italy due to both length & width.
If it did make it I would never be able to park! Even if I could get it there it would have to stay put because I could never find a spot around town large enough to park & the fuel cost due to taxes would break you!!
First I bought this (still own it):
The Mercedes W116 450SEL is a great car. I think it is the last of the true heritage DNA Mercedes, and can state that the W123 and beyond were characterized by a loss of the deep Mercedes philosophy, which was, "We Know Cars, this is what you need to get to where you are going when you are in a hurry, and yes, we designed it to last." Mine still has an untouched engine and driveline and everything else actually, It has never broken down, and everything works. Hell breaks loose when you hit the gas and it still has a chassis that talks to me seamlessly and brakes that get the job done with world-class performance to this day. You can throw a 450SEL into a corner and it will tell you exactly what you just did, right or wrong, the intuition of the driving experience is second to none. I had to laugh about a comment further up where a poster was dissing the recirculating ball steering box as "sloppy" or "cheap". I am sorry. The rack and pinion showed up on econoboxes because it is the cheaper by far, and it limits the design of the tierods to *not bump steer*. Mercedes has a beautiful feel throughout the suspension travel, and that gorgeous ZF steering box has a perfectly natural resistance to steering kickback which no rack and pinion can match. The leather, the carpet, the climate control system, interior fitments, the car is still perfect, save for discoloration of the dashboard dyes and a little delmination on the wood. The SOHC V-8 is a Teutonic bruiser bult like a brick and it gets 13-15 mpg, that's it. I love it. Doors close solidly. This car, a footnote in history, still reeks of serious engineering authority.
Then I bought this:
Modern it was. Quiet. Technologically advanced. 25 mpg. A fabulously smooth engine. Loved the moonroof. Adored the sound system. Handled like an uncertain Ford station wagon. Just could not cool its brakes adequately. Engineering message was indisputably "we are interpreting the work of others". I sold it after 100,000 miles of good hard driving, kept the TRAC off all winter so I could have some fun? please? I respected it, but I never got to know it. It never broke down, but I did have to do the timing belt one cold January weekend in upstate New York. It was a reliable luxury automotive appliance.
Then I bought this:
Brilliant fleet-of-foot reflexes, an intelligent driver's car, extremely attractive, and the-most-reliable-BMW-I-have-ever-owned, period. Engine adored 5,000 rpm and beyond, the clutch was perfectly happy at 126,000 miles and it was perfectly happy at 228,000 miles, lovely 5-speed Getrag and yes! ZF recirculating ball steering. . .
Never had to touch the engine save for plugs and I did a preemptive water pump. There were some cheap stabilizer bar links that failed twice. But the differential took ten (!) years of my abuse in the snow, fun fun fun! I loved that car, and sold it for a totally stupid reason (somebody wanted it). It did have a niggly cheapishness creeping in, delaminated door panels, wearing carpet at the foot rest, sagging headliner at the back, but BMW knows what they are doing, with a properly maintained and set up car, driving is an extension of your own body. Can't touch that.
. . . and now this:
I bought this '92 spur of the moment off of a used lot over the internet. I walked into it eyes wide open after pining for the loss of the BMW to its happy new owner for a total of four days. Gone are the chassis reflexes and driver ergonomics. No Authority As Directed To You By Mercedes Heritage.
But this '92 LS400 is now talking its own place in the automotive lexicon, and I did not know these things with my first one. The 1UZFE V8 has stepped in to the ring as one of the great engines. I love it. The 1st Generation LS has proved its bona fides as a reliable well-built car (even if my door hinges are crap compared to the 14 years older Mercedes). And this brown one I think is more attractive than my old appliance white one. Seeing its place in the Lexus line-up, as history inexorably swallows it up too, I respect the effort and execution of the early LS like none of the succeeding cars. Its design statement is far more pure.
All of the above cars, I respect. They all have their specific strengths and weaknesses, and you merely need to select the constellation that most matches your own. I revisited Lexus, not because I missed my old one, but because hushed quiet quality and good sound and a serious thrifty V8 are exactly what I want right now. Even if the brakes can't keep up with me in the twisties. I do not want the bells and whistles of the newer ones. I do not do well with gadgetry that does not relate specifically to driving. This Lexus has the perfect simplicity of environment I want. . . even as the technical complexity underneath has met my acquaintance. I do not mind. It is now my opportunity to get to know these cars.
Colin
First I bought this (still own it):
The Mercedes W116 450SEL is a great car. I think it is the last of the true heritage DNA Mercedes, and can state that the W123 and beyond were characterized by a loss of the deep Mercedes philosophy, which was, "We Know Cars, this is what you need to get to where you are going when you are in a hurry, and yes, we designed it to last." Mine still has an untouched engine and driveline and everything else actually, It has never broken down, and everything works. Hell breaks loose when you hit the gas and it still has a chassis that talks to me seamlessly and brakes that get the job done with world-class performance to this day. You can throw a 450SEL into a corner and it will tell you exactly what you just did, right or wrong, the intuition of the driving experience is second to none. I had to laugh about a comment further up where a poster was dissing the recirculating ball steering box as "sloppy" or "cheap". I am sorry. The rack and pinion showed up on econoboxes because it is the cheaper by far, and it limits the design of the tierods to *not bump steer*. Mercedes has a beautiful feel throughout the suspension travel, and that gorgeous ZF steering box has a perfectly natural resistance to steering kickback which no rack and pinion can match. The leather, the carpet, the climate control system, interior fitments, the car is still perfect, save for discoloration of the dashboard dyes and a little delmination on the wood. The SOHC V-8 is a Teutonic bruiser bult like a brick and it gets 13-15 mpg, that's it. I love it. Doors close solidly. This car, a footnote in history, still reeks of serious engineering authority.
Then I bought this:
Modern it was. Quiet. Technologically advanced. 25 mpg. A fabulously smooth engine. Loved the moonroof. Adored the sound system. Handled like an uncertain Ford station wagon. Just could not cool its brakes adequately. Engineering message was indisputably "we are interpreting the work of others". I sold it after 100,000 miles of good hard driving, kept the TRAC off all winter so I could have some fun? please? I respected it, but I never got to know it. It never broke down, but I did have to do the timing belt one cold January weekend in upstate New York. It was a reliable luxury automotive appliance.
. . . and now this:
I bought this '92 spur of the moment off of a used lot over the internet. I walked into it eyes wide open after pining for the loss of the BMW to its happy new owner for a total of four days. Gone are the chassis reflexes and driver ergonomics. No Authority As Directed To You By Mercedes Heritage.
But this '92 LS400 is now talking its own place in the automotive lexicon, and I did not know these things with my first one. The 1UZFE V8 has stepped in to the ring as one of the great engines. I love it. The 1st Generation LS has proved its bona fides as a reliable well-built car (even if my door hinges are crap compared to the 14 years older Mercedes). And this brown one I think is more attractive than my old appliance white one. Seeing its place in the Lexus line-up, as history inexorably swallows it up too, I respect the effort and execution of the early LS like none of the succeeding cars. Its design statement is far more pure.
All of the above cars, I respect. They all have their specific strengths and weaknesses, and you merely need to select the constellation that most matches your own. I revisited Lexus, not because I missed my old one, but because hushed quiet quality and good sound and a serious thrifty V8 are exactly what I want right now. Even if the brakes can't keep up with me in the twisties. I do not want the bells and whistles of the newer ones. I do not do well with gadgetry that does not relate specifically to driving. This Lexus has the perfect simplicity of environment I want. . . even as the technical complexity underneath has met my acquaintance. I do not mind. It is now my opportunity to get to know these cars.
Colin
First of all, let me say that W116/W126 was a great car that was built like a tank, theres no question about it. There are virtually no cars today that have such heavy sheet metal and such solid doors as the W116 and some older Mercs. I've recently sat in a 1960's Merc, I believe it was the 250, and I just couldn't believe how solid the doors close, the only thing that comes close is a bank vault.
With that being said, the problem with W116/W126 is that it stayed virtually unchanged for two decades, and when the first LS400 launched, the S class was too antiquated and stagnant in comparison. Comparing W116/W126 to LS400 is like comparing LS400 to LS460.
As far as your driving experience, it is subjective. I can tell you that I can throw my LS400 into a corner and it will tell me exactly what I just did. And quite frankly, these old model Lexus (I owned a 1GS, now own 1LS, 2GS and 3GS) had much better steering feedback and feel than new models. Of course steering feedback aside the suspension of the LS is very soft and wobbly, but if you like spirited driving, this can be easily improved with some aftermarket shocks/springs. The rest of its suspension of formula is great even in these days. Which I cannot say for the W116/126. You do seem like a guy that likes older cars and older tech over new stuff, and some of older tech is indeed superior to the new stuff, but I cannot say that about recirculating ball steering. You can laugh all you want, but if any premium car manufacturer these days built a car without rack and pinion and fully independent rear suspension, they would get laughed off the face of the earth.
Now it is important to remember that 89-94 LS400 was the first attempt from Lexus, so it did have its share of problems. Still, for their first attempt it is pretty damn good, and with all future generations Lexus only made it better. Just a decade after the LS400, Lexus has launched the LS430 which, IMO, is as close to automotive perfection as it gets. Which cannot necessarily be said for Merc - they sat on the W116/W126 for two decades, and when they launched W140 in 1992, as magnificent as it was (I think it is the best looking luxury sedan, ever) it was plagued with built quality issues and reliability problems. And while it did have some nifty features and choice of engines that were not available on LS400, it lost Mercs solid granite built quality, the bank vault like doors, and its interior fell apart. And W220 that followed after W140 continued in the same fashion.
With all of this being said, it is important to remember that we are all automotive heads, and we are passionate about our cars. Some of us can be Lexus enthusiasts, some can be MB enthusiasts, some can be VW beetle enthusiasts. While we can all have some heated arguments about one car brand/model vs another, its nice to see when we can admit to respect the other car, and in your case respect it enough to own one. As a Lexus enthusiast, I can respect and appreciated that, as apposed to people who discredit and bash Lexus for "lack of heritage" or because its "boring".
First I bought this (still own it):
The Mercedes W116 450SEL is a great car. I think it is the last of the true heritage DNA Mercedes, and can state that the W123 and beyond were characterized by a loss of the deep Mercedes philosophy, which was, "We Know Cars, this is what you need to get to where you are going when you are in a hurry, and yes, we designed it to last." Mine still has an untouched engine and driveline and everything else actually, It has never broken down, and everything works. Hell breaks loose when you hit the gas and it still has a chassis that talks to me seamlessly and brakes that get the job done with world-class performance to this day. You can throw a 450SEL into a corner and it will tell you exactly what you just did, right or wrong, the intuition of the driving experience is second to none. I had to laugh about a comment further up where a poster was dissing the recirculating ball steering box as "sloppy" or "cheap". I am sorry. The rack and pinion showed up on econoboxes because it is the cheaper by far, and it limits the design of the tierods to *not bump steer*. Mercedes has a beautiful feel throughout the suspension travel, and that gorgeous ZF steering box has a perfectly natural resistance to steering kickback which no rack and pinion can match. The leather, the carpet, the climate control system, interior fitments, the car is still perfect, save for discoloration of the dashboard dyes and a little delmination on the wood. The SOHC V-8 is a Teutonic bruiser bult like a brick and it gets 13-15 mpg, that's it. I love it. Doors close solidly. This car, a footnote in history, still reeks of serious engineering authority.
Then I bought this:
Modern it was. Quiet. Technologically advanced. 25 mpg. A fabulously smooth engine. Loved the moonroof. Adored the sound system. Handled like an uncertain Ford station wagon. Just could not cool its brakes adequately. Engineering message was indisputably "we are interpreting the work of others". I sold it after 100,000 miles of good hard driving, kept the TRAC off all winter so I could have some fun? please? I respected it, but I never got to know it. It never broke down, but I did have to do the timing belt one cold January weekend in upstate New York. It was a reliable luxury automotive appliance.
Then I bought this:
Brilliant fleet-of-foot reflexes, an intelligent driver's car, extremely attractive, and the-most-reliable-BMW-I-have-ever-owned, period. Engine adored 5,000 rpm and beyond, the clutch was perfectly happy at 126,000 miles and it was perfectly happy at 228,000 miles, lovely 5-speed Getrag and yes! ZF recirculating ball steering. . .
Never had to touch the engine save for plugs and I did a preemptive water pump. There were some cheap stabilizer bar links that failed twice. But the differential took ten (!) years of my abuse in the snow, fun fun fun! I loved that car, and sold it for a totally stupid reason (somebody wanted it). It did have a niggly cheapishness creeping in, delaminated door panels, wearing carpet at the foot rest, sagging headliner at the back, but BMW knows what they are doing, with a properly maintained and set up car, driving is an extension of your own body. Can't touch that.
. . . and now this:
I bought this '92 spur of the moment off of a used lot over the internet. I walked into it eyes wide open after pining for the loss of the BMW to its happy new owner for a total of four days. Gone are the chassis reflexes and driver ergonomics. No Authority As Directed To You By Mercedes Heritage.
But this '92 LS400 is now talking its own place in the automotive lexicon, and I did not know these things with my first one. The 1UZFE V8 has stepped in to the ring as one of the great engines. I love it. The 1st Generation LS has proved its bona fides as a reliable well-built car (even if my door hinges are crap compared to the 14 years older Mercedes). And this brown one I think is more attractive than my old appliance white one. Seeing its place in the Lexus line-up, as history inexorably swallows it up too, I respect the effort and execution of the early LS like none of the succeeding cars. Its design statement is far more pure.
All of the above cars, I respect. They all have their specific strengths and weaknesses, and you merely need to select the constellation that most matches your own. I revisited Lexus, not because I missed my old one, but because hushed quiet quality and good sound and a serious thrifty V8 are exactly what I want right now. Even if the brakes can't keep up with me in the twisties. I do not want the bells and whistles of the newer ones. I do not do well with gadgetry that does not relate specifically to driving. This Lexus has the perfect simplicity of environment I want. . . even as the technical complexity underneath has met my acquaintance. I do not mind. It is now my opportunity to get to know these cars.
Colin
i remember when we had a 1980 450sel....that car was so comfortable...and it felt safe....it was like driving a mini tank dwn the street...to bad we sold it, it onle had 70k original miles when we got rid of it!!!
__________________
88 CRX HF full suspension SOHC POWAH!!!SAY NO TO VTAK
93 Diamond white Pearl sc3 5SPEED
Some ppl need to read the forum rules on callouts in signatures on CL!!
You guys are really biased towards Lexus. Which doenst speak much about your open mind.
Anyone who ever driven the MB or BMW for that matter, knows that those cars are a lot more interesting to be in and to drive, if you have a pulse and a heart.
The only thing Lexus is good at is not breaking down, THATS IT.
Stop clowning around and sucking on Lexus tit.
This is similar to defending your fat wife, saying she is a great cook.
I used to work at wash tub, detailing these various cars. I liked to compare the materials used in the vehicles, lexus and toyotas were always much easier to clean. vinyl in BMW's and some Mercedes of older models usually fade and look dirty even when they are cleaned, people put too much armor all throughout their cars years and the interiors just don't keep that fresh look like the ls does. I can't speak for all of the other lexus's but i just know that whenever i cleaned a car like mine (ls400) as opposed to European luxury cars in the same age range, they just don't seem to stay as clean as long as the LS.
Could be the owner, or the cars interior materials. thats just another thing to keep in mind my brother
I used to work at wash tub, detailing these various cars. I liked to compare the materials used in the vehicles, lexus and toyotas were always much easier to clean. vinyl in BMW's and some Mercedes of older models usually fade and look dirty even when they are cleaned, people put too much armor all throughout their cars years and the interiors just don't keep that fresh look like the ls does. I can't speak for all of the other lexus's but i just know that whenever i cleaned a car like mine (ls400) as opposed to European luxury cars in the same age range, they just don't seem to stay as clean as long as the LS.
Could be the owner, or the cars interior materials. thats just another thing to keep in mind my brother
That is very true. Lexus uses the smoothest leather/vinyl that doesn't attract dirt and cleans very easily. Other manufacturers, BMW especially, use grainy, almost industrial quality leather, that gets dirty right away and almost impossible to clean out.
Dont Watch This Club Lexus
Sorry for the Above Video Link
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