Muffler delete: makes the cabin too loud too talk in?
06-05-07, 06:11 AM
#61
Lexus Test Driver
I will try to find everything out and get things posted during my lunch break. However, more likely than not, it will have to wait until after work, so around 7:30PM EDT.
06-05-07, 10:48 AM
#66
exhaust grease? what?
06-05-07, 01:19 PM
#67
Lexus Champion
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I look forward to finding out if i am wrong as that means i have learned something. The reason all o2 sensor are before and after is the ones before the cat make sure the engine is running right and the ones after make sure the cat is removing the rich /lean fuel curve the engine produces to test the system and set off the code when it is not running right.
I am not trying to be hostile just trying to open up the possibility that either of us are wrong until proven otherwise. So far everyone who has physically checked inside on the forums have said it is a resonator if your car is different then it begs the question ,why?
I am not trying to be hostile just trying to open up the possibility that either of us are wrong until proven otherwise. So far everyone who has physically checked inside on the forums have said it is a resonator if your car is different then it begs the question ,why?
06-05-07, 04:30 PM
#68
Actually you'd be surprised at how many young kids view automotive forums. Anyway, the censorship of certain words is nothing new. It is explained in your user agreement when you signed up. Also, per your user agreement, don't try and get around the censorship as that could lead to temporary ban. This is the sites Administrative rules.
06-05-07, 04:45 PM
#69
Lexus Test Driver
You moreso than PD are being hostle, sk. You may not see it, but your actions have shown that you feel that the community belongs to you, and not to itself. You disregard those such as myself who make true statements because you're too arrogant to accept that you may be wrong.
Anyway, I am correct. I did as I said I would, and spoke with the senior technician at my local dealership, as well as talking to personnel in the parts department. Here is what they told me.
Technician: "Yes, I have seen many with 3 cats. They have 2 precats, and one cat where the pipes come together."
Parts counter: They found only one part for the 1995-1997 model years. 17410. It is an exhaust with a resonator in place of a 3rd cat. However, they also looked at 1993-1994 model years and found 2 distinct part numbers.:
17410-50021 459.81 PIPE ASSY
17410-50031 1946.13 PIPE ASSY
Can either of you figure out what 50031 is? It's a pipe assembly with a CATALYTIC CONVERTER for California spec cars. My car is so equipped. After talking further and trying to figure out why my 1995 LS400 would have this piping, we reasoned out the following: Certain early production CA spec cars may come equipped with the 1993-1994 CA spec exhaust, at least that particular section. It is also possible that my car has the earlier exhaust for unknown reasons. We did not bother to look at other years; they may or may not be the same. There are no O2 sensor differences between models with, and models without a 3rd cat. Both have 4 total. Going back to my original statement,
I was 100% correct. Following precedent, I have no doubt in my mind that you and PD will still refute these facts in some way, but frankly, I don't care anymore. It has become apparent that you'd rather keep your reputations intact than accept that you aren't omniscient and may be wrong, as you both are in this particular situation. Therefore, after having such a foul taste of what fellowship apparently means in this subforum, I am taking a break of unknown length from posting in the LS400 forum. It is apparent that my insights and knowledge, as little as they may be, are not wanted. Good bye.
Anyway, I am correct. I did as I said I would, and spoke with the senior technician at my local dealership, as well as talking to personnel in the parts department. Here is what they told me.
Technician: "Yes, I have seen many with 3 cats. They have 2 precats, and one cat where the pipes come together."
Parts counter: They found only one part for the 1995-1997 model years. 17410. It is an exhaust with a resonator in place of a 3rd cat. However, they also looked at 1993-1994 model years and found 2 distinct part numbers.:
17410-50021 459.81 PIPE ASSY
17410-50031 1946.13 PIPE ASSY
Can either of you figure out what 50031 is? It's a pipe assembly with a CATALYTIC CONVERTER for California spec cars. My car is so equipped. After talking further and trying to figure out why my 1995 LS400 would have this piping, we reasoned out the following: Certain early production CA spec cars may come equipped with the 1993-1994 CA spec exhaust, at least that particular section. It is also possible that my car has the earlier exhaust for unknown reasons. We did not bother to look at other years; they may or may not be the same. There are no O2 sensor differences between models with, and models without a 3rd cat. Both have 4 total. Going back to my original statement,
I was 100% correct. Following precedent, I have no doubt in my mind that you and PD will still refute these facts in some way, but frankly, I don't care anymore. It has become apparent that you'd rather keep your reputations intact than accept that you aren't omniscient and may be wrong, as you both are in this particular situation. Therefore, after having such a foul taste of what fellowship apparently means in this subforum, I am taking a break of unknown length from posting in the LS400 forum. It is apparent that my insights and knowledge, as little as they may be, are not wanted. Good bye.
Last edited by sonyman; 06-05-07 at 04:57 PM.
06-05-07, 04:53 PM
#70
After all this I forget what the argument was about anyway
Anyway, while it was all just play on words, it seems both parties were correct, but in the end it really doesn't matter if the car had a 3rd cat or a resonator in the middle. It can be deleted since if it is true the 02 sensor locations are all the same, the OBD system wouldn't know if you removed that 3rd car or resonator anyway. And, since it appears the later production year cars may have deleted this 3rd cat anyway, it probably isn't needed. So in the end, it really made no difference if there was a 3rd cat or not
Anyway sonyman. I'm glad your taking a self break from this section. I already asked the parties NOT to make this personal. That was a warning. Anyone can disagree with each other and post their side, but DO NOT turn this into a personal argument.
Anyway, while it was all just play on words, it seems both parties were correct, but in the end it really doesn't matter if the car had a 3rd cat or a resonator in the middle. It can be deleted since if it is true the 02 sensor locations are all the same, the OBD system wouldn't know if you removed that 3rd car or resonator anyway. And, since it appears the later production year cars may have deleted this 3rd cat anyway, it probably isn't needed. So in the end, it really made no difference if there was a 3rd cat or notAnyway sonyman. I'm glad your taking a self break from this section. I already asked the parties NOT to make this personal. That was a warning. Anyone can disagree with each other and post their side, but DO NOT turn this into a personal argument.
Last edited by CK6Speed; 06-05-07 at 04:58 PM.
06-05-07, 04:59 PM
#71
everyone is going to sleep at night whether you're here or not, however taking a "break" because you got your feelings hurt is kind of immature.
it makes no statement. stick around sonyman.
it makes no statement. stick around sonyman.
06-05-07, 05:38 PM
#72
Anyway, I am correct. I did as I said I would, and spoke with the senior technician at my local dealership, as well as talking to personnel in the parts department. Here is what they told me.
Technician: "Yes, I have seen many with 3 cats. They have 2 precats, and one cat where the pipes come together."
Parts counter: They found only one part for the 1995-1997 model years. 17410. It is an exhaust with a resonator in place of a 3rd cat. However, they also looked at 1993-1994 model years and found 2 distinct part numbers.:
17410-50021 459.81 PIPE ASSY
17410-50031 1946.13 PIPE ASSY
Can either of you figure out what 50031 is? It's a pipe assembly with a CATALYTIC CONVERTER for California spec cars. My car is so equipped. After talking further and trying to figure out why my 1995 LS400 would have this piping, we reasoned out the following: Certain early production CA spec cars may come equipped with the 1993-1994 CA spec exhaust, at least that particular section. It is also possible that my car has the earlier exhaust for unknown reasons. We did not bother to look at other years; they may or may not be the same. There are no O2 sensor differences between models with, and models without a 3rd cat. Both have 4 total. Going back to my original statement,
Technician: "Yes, I have seen many with 3 cats. They have 2 precats, and one cat where the pipes come together."
Parts counter: They found only one part for the 1995-1997 model years. 17410. It is an exhaust with a resonator in place of a 3rd cat. However, they also looked at 1993-1994 model years and found 2 distinct part numbers.:
17410-50021 459.81 PIPE ASSY
17410-50031 1946.13 PIPE ASSY
Can either of you figure out what 50031 is? It's a pipe assembly with a CATALYTIC CONVERTER for California spec cars. My car is so equipped. After talking further and trying to figure out why my 1995 LS400 would have this piping, we reasoned out the following: Certain early production CA spec cars may come equipped with the 1993-1994 CA spec exhaust, at least that particular section. It is also possible that my car has the earlier exhaust for unknown reasons. We did not bother to look at other years; they may or may not be the same. There are no O2 sensor differences between models with, and models without a 3rd cat. Both have 4 total. Going back to my original statement,
06-05-07, 05:46 PM
#73
You moreso than PD are being hostle, sk. You may not see it, but your actions have shown that you feel that the community belongs to you, and not to itself. You disregard those such as myself who make true statements because you're too arrogant to accept that you may be wrong.
example 1 (lets go from most recent shall we?):
I was 100% correct. Following precedent, I have no doubt in my mind that you and PD will still refute these facts in some way, but frankly, I don't care anymore. It has become apparent that you'd rather keep your reputations intact than accept that you aren't omniscient and may be wrong, as you both are in this particular situation. Therefore, after having such a foul taste of what fellowship apparently means in this subforum, I am taking a break of unknown length from posting in the LS400 forum. It is apparent that my insights and knowledge, as little as they may be, are not wanted. Good bye.
example 2:
[QUOTE=sonyman;2668162]Obviously you haven't read them all.
that would be YOU getting personal vs. Me.
example 3:
I looked underneath my car to verify that it looked like the diagram. As shown in the picture on the first page, the resonator is shaped like a cylinder, whereas the 3rd cat is not. Go to your dealer and look at the parts diagrams if you wish. I happen to work at Lexus, so I will personally take this pursuit. From my experience, Lexus uses different exhaust configurations on different models to meet the emissions requirements of local governments, i.e., California cars have different emissions controls than Virginia cars. As for my exhaust being modified, that's a no-no. Judging from the diagram, the 3rd cat is different from the front TWC's, and a frontal TWC will not bolt up in the location of the rear TWC. That diagram does indeed mean something, considering it came directly from the horse's mouth. However, I feel no need to prove myself to you, and therefore, honestly don't give a **** if you don't believe me. TWC = three way catalyst/catalytic converter. Have a good day.
honestly, everything in this post was fine and informative until u got to that bit.example 4.
I work at Lexus, not Toyota. I'm not a tech, but I have access to all the computer records, personnel, etc, so it's easy for me verify that diagram. I'm familiar with diagrams having typos, but this is a picture. My car is a California car. It has a different ECM, EGR, etc. The part number that you found in the computer is obviously for cars with a resonator in place of a 3rd cat. Also, I am not being stubborn in light of others having "more" knowledge. I'm not admitting anything because there is nothing to admit. If you return to my OP, I said that it is not a rule of thumb to have 2 cats. You and PD seem to think that I said that all LS400's have 3 cats, which is obviously not the case. I also don't believe it has to look a certain way. I am saying that in exhaust configuration A, with a center resonator, it enters straight and leaves straight. The configuration with a center cat enters and exits with an offset, as shown in the diagram. I honestly don't know why you and PD feel the need to prove that they all have 2 cats, because it isn't the case. And PD, cutting your exhaust proves nothing. It only shows that your car has 2 cats- it says nothing about the thousands of other LS400's on the road that may have 2 OR 3. As to the O2 issue, you and both know well that the front O2 sensors do 90% of the work, and the sub O2's are almost useless. Having another set would be moot. Honestly, you're looking at a circle and calling it a square. I posted an undoctored image of the center TWC and you're saying that an image, not text, is a typo. I'll have part numbers tomorrow for the exhaust section with TWC, so be prepared to eat your words.
Sonyman-Me and SK have no reason to defend our reputations, our actions speak for themselves. We have done nothing to attack you personally, but have questioned (up to this point) the proof you have provided to support your claim. If you mistake this for arrogance than so be it. If you insult us or our "reputations" we have nothing to fear, especially as you were being a good example of the hostility you claimed us to show. SK and I may get riled up a bit, but never about your character or the type of person you are, merely if ur information is correct or not. If you choose to leave the LS forum it is of your own volition, but i strongly urge you to stay hre instead of running away.
06-05-07, 10:15 PM
#74
I got a few PMs about this topic so can you guys just forget about it already? Better yet, the issue is resolved so can you guys edit out the off topic posts yourself so this topic won't have to be locked? As everyone problably already heard many times before, take it to PM if you need to continue the cat no cat debate.
