mmccutchin

My recently purchased 1993 LS400 (163K) has a less than firm Driver's Seat. . .what could be wrong with it. . .or am I just learning a different feel from my 1992 ES300?

The 8(?)-way power adjustments seem fine. . .as does lumbar support and the memory two button settings.

It feels like someone jumped on the seat and busted a spring or something. . .and driving down the road it feels a bit like sitting on jello. . .BTW, I'm only 170 lb. . .never felt anything less than firm in my ES300.

I'm planning on taking the car to a Lexus dealership at 165-166K, perhaps sooner. . .would like to receive some guidance from fellow LS400 owners that may have had a similar problem with their driver's seat.

Thank you in advance!

scbysnx

Well one thing you have to think about is there's a lot more cushion in an ls400 then in an es300. now if you are actually BOUNCING then you may want to have it looked at but if its just some spring for cushioning I wouldn't think much of it

mmccutchin

Definitely more of a BOUNCE. . .has anyone else had a similar problem with the driver's seat. . .what you did about it, options, pricing, etc.

Thank you!

Leatherseats.com

It sounds like you might just be feeling the difference between the ES and LS seats. Most seats dont have springs any more. Just foam although there are a few that still have a small spring system built in, but it more or less is just a metal cage with a few springs under the seat. You can check this out pretty easily by unbolting the 4 bolts that hold the seat in place and then leaning it backwards. You should be able to see the whole seat construction once you lean it back, and hopefully will be able to tell if something is out of place. If you dont see anything out of place then its probably just a combination of you just experiencing a different seat and MAYBE the foam is beat down so you are feeling like you are relying more on support mechanisms underneath then the cushion itself cushioning any bumps. Hope the info is helpful...

Jeremy

damon

Jeremy,

Where is a good source for new foam?

Leatherseats.com

To be honest, the only place I know of to get foam for Lexus vehicles is going to be from Lexus themselves. I dont know of any aftermarket sources yet.

LILEVO

iTrader: (1)

Go sit in the back seat then pop out the back seat and look under it. Looks like the box spring part of a bed.

Leatherseats.com

Here is a picture of what the underside of "most" front buckets look like. I am not sure about the LS specifically.



This happens to be the bottom of an NSX seat, but it might be hard to tell to some so I will explain a bit. The seat is flipped over with the front of the seat cushion (where your legs hang over) is face down in the table and the headrest is also face down in the table. So the curved silver part you are looking at is actually the seat pan that holds the foam. No springs involved with this seat as you can see. This is what about 80% of the seats from the 90's look like. The other 20% are the few cars that were carried over from the 80s, and they didnt have an interior redesign until the mid 90s.

Jeremy

mmccutchin

So mostly foam in the front seats of an early-mid 1990's LS sedan!

What does this sound like:

*170 lb. person seats down in the front passenger seat. . .seated properly and looking ahead.
*The "buttock" experience is very uneven and a bit annoying. . .left side seems fine and firm. . .the right side is noticeably depressed so that you are sinking lower than the left side. . .you (almost) feel like your leaning down and to the right side!

(Sorry to get personal here. . .my rear is small and evenly distributed here. . .I believe someone like myself would be an "ideal" candidate for judging the feel of a car seat!)

Question: Given the above description, does it sound like worn out foam (it is a 1993 LS after all), or, problems with the 20% spring action or framing, etc?

(According to my Lexus mechanic, this has NEVER been a problem on ES, even the early/mid 1990's, which is what I had before. Hmm. . .I guess six years and $1billion+ in developing the LS400 still wasn't enough to get the front seats just right! My interior cabin features, especially the electrical areas, are and remain flawless. )

Thank you in advance!

Leatherseats.com

mmccutchin: The experience you are talking about seems only odd in one respect and that is because the passenger seats on cars normally see very little wear, but if the previous owner always drove with a friend then its possible. The experience could be caused by foam wear or something under the seat being the problem. The easiest way to find that out is to just unbolt the seat and flip it backwards and look to see if you have any mechanical problem.

My educated guess would be that your are feeling outside bolster edge that has been beaten down. It is very common for the outside bolster of the seat to go first because that is what always sees the most wear and tear. Everyone always slides in and out over the outside bolster before settling into the seat so thats probably what it is though.

As far as the ES never having this problem and the LS having this problem, can be a combination of several things. The main thing is that if you bought the LS from a large man or woman then its naturally going to have more breakdown in the cushion than a vehicle from that didnt have a large person driving or riding in it regularly. So each vehicle is different, and on top of that, Lexus most likely used different foam between the ES and LS models. There is a trade off when choosing foam. Firmer foam will last longer, but its not as comfortable. So if Lexus used a little firmer foam in the ES than in the LS then that would probably account for ES's having less problems at high mileage. It doesnt nessecarily indicate lower quality materials as much as it would indicate that they are just different types of foam.

Long-winded Jeremy, the leather guy

mmccutchin

Great advice and counsel contained in this thread. . .thank you, Jeremy!

Just got my car back today. . .feels great. . and very much like my ES. . .$400 (labor/parts/tax). . .both front seats had new seat foam installed + 3" repair/reinforcement to the outside bolster edges.

Thank you again!

damon

On an LS would it not be possible to switch the relatively unused seat bottom from the Passenger side over to the drivers side?

Aren't all the adjustment portions of both seats contained in the plastic shell of the seats? Have I lost my mind?

Leatherseats.com

mmccutchin: No problem glad I could help, and I am glad it is fixed.

damon: Not 100% sure if you could on the LS wthout looking it, but normally the factory leather covers are trimmed and cut to fit behind the plastic control panel on the side and around the back of the switches. Since the inside part of the seat doesnt have plastics, if you switched passenger and driver you might have a fitment issue there because the attachment points would be different. This is generally the case with most seats, but there are some cars that have seats that are exact duplicates from side to side.

mmccutchin

Over the holidays I bit the bullet and spent about $800 (parts/tax/labor) replacing both front seat cushions.

For whatever reason, both seats in my 1993 LS400 had been worn/beaten down over the years more than usual. . .imagine being that school bus driver in the 1960's and 1970's riding down the highway bouncing wildly up and down. . .yes, I'm exaggerating a bit. . .but that was somewhat the feel in these seats before the repair work was done.

So how does it feel now?

The foam cushion replacement (from Lexus) is much better.

But I ran into a problem that Forum readers need to be careful about should they ever run into the same problem I did:

With worn cushions can be overly bent and constantly moving "listing wire" and torn "listing socks".

(Underneath the leather "skin" of your bottom seat cushion are outlines of the seat with pieces of wire reinforcement held in place by stiched in place markers . .the wires normally disappear deep into the cushion to be unfelt or undetected by one's rear side, while providing necessary definition or outline to the car seat's dimensions. . .but if these wires are bent or somehow moving. . .it will feel like intruding wire. . .uncomfortable as heck and very annoying and distracting while driving, etc.)

My car had this problem. Solution: the upholstery shop used "hog rings" basically to staple or hold down the wires so that there would be minimal movement or slippage. . .now the seat feels great and like brand new. . .parts costs were virtually nil. . .just a bit more time on the foam installation time!

(BTW. . .the 'clicking' sound I had heard at starts/stops was eliminated in the process. . .over the years the seat had gotten loose. . .so a good solid tightening did the trick. . .thank goodness it wasn't a damaged seat frame or lumb. support problem!)

Hope this helps on those rare situations where Forum members run into the same problem as I did!

DallasLex

iTrader: (1)

Great info! I'm glad you had yours fixed(well worth it). I had begun to have the same problem with my LS400 before I sold it. I guess they wear out over time or the guy who owned it before me was kind of heavy set.