ravi11

i've scoured this board and found lots of valuable information on the vanishing power steering fluid problem. eventhough i'm convinced that mine too is the same problem, the following list of symptoms on this 1991 LS400 might indicate a different problem:

# in the beggining loud grinding noises from under the hood indicated that p/s fluid was low. adding fluid would immediately silence the puppy.

# of late, me (and my wife ) regularly refill it sometimes as frequently as twice a day. even then the noise persists and never completely dissapears.

# i'm having a hard time finding the recommended Dexron II atf to replace the p/s fluid. instead i started using the one i find at every gas station http://www.stp.com/images/func_pow_ste.jpg. however i prefer the dexron for it's red color that helps detect any leaks on the floor

# the ubiquitous plume of whilte smoke at ignition is quite prominent. so i'm convinced that p/s fluid it being dumped into the air intake. now wouldn't this happen constantly even while driving?

# i've added several bottles of the colorless STP p/s fluid over the past couple of weeks but when i peeked into the reservoir today i could see red fluid (remnant of the OLD dexron??)

# i spread out some newspaper in my garage to find any leaks from the car. i observed a bit of fluid right underneath the battery area. i'm quite sure this is p/s fluid. this is where the story diverges from those who did not detect any leak whatsover but saw p/s fluid vanishing

can any sleuth put these facts together and tell me what additional problems my ls4 might have besides the usual busted ACV

thanks
ravi11

CUMan

Several observations for your consideration:

1. You mention a "grinding" noise. I have always felt a better description for the usual power
steering problems is a whining noise. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing.

2. Just adding fluid will not likely stop the noise immediately. Air remains entrapped in the
system. The system should be bled by turning the steering wheel lock to lock a few times.

3. Dexron II is no longer being manufactured (to my knowledge). It has been replaced by
Dexron III. This is readily available everywhere. I would not recommend adding any fluid
labeled "power steering fluid" to the system. It is designed for Dexron automatic trans-
mission fluid, not power steering fluid.

4. I would guess that the engine is burning fluid from the power steering all the time. But the amount is so small that it does not show up in the exhaust. When the engine is shut down, the vacuum in these lines draws a considerable amount of the fluid into the intake manifold. This all burns immediately when the car is cranked. Thus, the big puff of white smoke.

5. When the red Dexron mixed with the colorless fluid, the combination would still look red.

6. You probably have a leak in the power steering rack in addition to the air control valve.

ravi11

great diagnosis cuman,

a few things i forgot to mention were

# i took out the intake pipe and did see some red fluid (no surprise there)

# whenever the car is running and i get ready to add more ps fluid, i always see froth on the surface of the liquid. this is usually pinkish due to the red fluid

# if i continue driving with the whining does it destroy the pump or anything in the lineup?

as far as the redness of the fluid is concerned the only thing that surprises me is that how can the fluid i added two months ago still persist in the pump while the transparent ps fluid i've been adding every day has dissapeared maybe 20 times over.

thanks very much
ravi11

mouser991

I had almost the same problem with my 91 LS. I didn't have any leaks that i could find, but I had the whining sound, frothing or bubbling in the ps reservoir and the white smoke at start up all the time. Like you I was adding ps fluid every day and the whine would go away mostly during the day. I searched the internet, found this forum and found out about the ACV and all the problems I had were almost exactly what I read about here. I bought the ACV at the Toyota parts department, replaced it myself ( by the way cover your alternator if you dont remove it when you take the valve off, found that out the hard way ). 3 weeks and no whining, no smoke. I did what CUman said about getting the air out of the system and no more bubbles in the reservoir and I have not had to add a drop of ps fluid. This forum has saved me several hundred dollars with the excellent advice offered herein and these folks here have a sincere desire to help others by sharing their experiences. Good luck!

Jim

CUMan

When you mention "intake pipe," I assume that you are referring to one of the two hoses that run from the power steering pump to the air intake system. Yes, there would be fluid in one or both of these if your ACV fails. This would be the same fluid causing the white smoke on startup.

There would be froth in the reservoir because of the air in the system. When you replace the ACV (and fix any other leaks that may be present) and bleed the system a few times, the air should be removed. When the air is gone, the noise will stop. The fluid would still look pinkish because you have never flushed the system. You have merely added colorless fluid to it. Some of the original red fluid would remain, and it would colorize the new fluid. The red would probably get lighter, but it would not likely go away for a long time.

The noise would probably not cause any damage. My 93 whined for about a month before I figured out that the ACV had failed. After replacing it, I had to bleed the system every day for about a week before the noise finally stopped.