roadfrog

That would be the best decision you ever made. As a recovering, former 7 Series and X5 owner, I too will NEVER own a German Marque ever again. Throw in the fiasco with VW, and you'd have to be a masochist to own one. Replacing engines on BMW's at 50k miles, is only skimming the surface. It's funny that you picked that number, because that's exactly when my engine began blowing blue smoke and needing a host of other engine work.

AJT123

Sorry to venture OT, but that is just beyond crazy, and "unacceptable" doesn't even begin to describe it. 50k miles??? Seems 50k is the norm for Bimmers in general to start having problems. It's pretty well known that BMW can't build an engine but I couldn't imagine paying 100k for a 7 series to have to repair/replace one after only 50,000 miles.

Sheesh.

Doublebase

I know this is crazy, but has anyone ever considered the Chrysler 300? I test drove one before buying the LS and I must say its a very smooth and quiet vehicle. It's not in the LS class, but those things have come a long way. That Pentastar V6 has decent power and if you decide on the Hemi, that engine has lots of power and long term reliability ratings are solid. Actually I think both engines are pretty solid. I've tried to keep an eye on the long term reliability of the car and it seems like it's holding up pretty well. The V6 has almost 300hp and there's stories of it getting nearly 40mpg on the highway because of the transmission they use. And it takes regular fuel. I talked to a guy who uses them in his fleet for a livery service and he's driven these things well over 100,000 miles with ZERO issues...said he was shocked at how reliable they've been. And his cars basically are running all day long.

Junglequac

That sounds about right as that is about exactly when BMW's "complimentary service" ends. Those 15,000 mile OCI's are gonna catchup sooner or later. While perhaps the oil can take it (maybe back when every engine they made was NOT turbocharged) Funny how before BMW started offering free maintenance, they were not having the cars come in for an oil change at 15,000 miles (sometimes slightly less if the oil quality sensor says so) There is a TSB I believe that recommends 10,000 OCI's. I will only say the handful of friends I have that actually purchased their BMW's don't go over 7500 miles with their OCI.

Don't get me wrong, many apex quality synthetic oils can take those kind of intervals, but there is still the oil filter and all of the particulates that accumulate.

Then again, BMW's are at the apex of cars which are leased which makes them a nightmare for someone wanting to buy preowned. This is especially true of the 3 Series. I loved the way the E90 generation 3 Series drives and spent a fair amount of time looking for an E92 (Coupe) X Drive (AWD) with a 6 Speed Manual and it was not uncommon to see 4-6 owners on a 2008 or 2009 3 Series (or 5 Series) with a service history that made me want to reach for a Xanax. I really wanted what will no doubt be the last naturally aspirated inline 6 that made BMW famous. One major annoying issue with the E90's is the water pump is located in about the most inconvenient place possible to the point that indy shops charge $1000 to replace just the pump.

One of my best friends recently purchased a CPO 2013 328i that I begged him not to as it has the N20 4 cylinder turbo engine. (thanks to the magic of turbocharging he found the inline 6 "slow")
The big problem being that most folks treat leased cars like rental cars aside from telling their friends that they own it. They do the bare minimum as far as maintenance and generally do not care.

With virtually the entire auto industry moving to turbocharging, I weep for those who want to keep their cars a decade or more. While the turbo thing seems to be primarily a way to meet the ever stringent CAFE standards, the cruel irony is that yes in the EPA Cycle where the car is driven it 10 MPH and the acceleration pedal is barely pressed, these cars of course will get great gas mileage. The thing is when these cars are driven like even normal people drive them and the turbo spools up, the fuel economy is quite often worse than a naturally aspirated engine.

The fact that BMW now turbocharges I think everything, (as M enthusiasts weep into their coffee) while keeping 15,000 OCI's makes a bad problem even worse. And we have not even gotten to the electrical issues yet!

Dave144239

My mechanic friend was telling me about BMW water pumps. He said they have one engine where the water pump is mounted to the block and uses a plastic impeller, which usually breaks at some point. Someone decided, quite sensibly, to offer a metal replacement impeller. So now, instead of the plastic impeller breaking, you have the metal impeller eating its way through the engine block. By the time it causes a noticeable problem, you need a new engine block. Awesome design.

BMW aren't the only ones with bad design. He was also telling me about a Cadillac (STS, I think?) where the water pump is mounted to a cross-member at the back of the engine. He said that's a $1200 job because you have to take so much apart just to get the water pump out.

Junglequac

Yep. My brother found my nephew a unicorn of a 2007 328i. It was a one owner, 6 Speed, Sport Package, iDrive where the owner never went over 7500 on his oil changes. Has 85,000 miles and he got the guy all the way down to $8500. Even though they recommend it being done at 100,000 miles, my brother immediately replaced the water pump at an indy to the tune of a grand. Unlike me, he truly is mechanically endowed and could have done it himself, but his job precluded him from being able to do it himself.

To be honest, until I got the 460, I was envious of my nephew even though I realize most would think me crazy as I had a mint 2005 LS430 Ultra Luxury with precollision and radar guided cruise replete with a perfect service history and 94,000 miles. I think it was the gold package and the limo tint. That said, I do think that this particular example would make for a stellar "star car" should they ever decide to make a remake of Superfly. Might have to do something about the grill though...

SW17LS

Not crazy at all, the 300 (and the Charger) are nice cars that ride really well.

CRowe14

So-correct me here, because I was speaking to my neighbor a good few months back, and he was expressing his interest to me regarding the purchase of a '14/'15 300, but his mechanic told him that the resale is absolutely horrible and that they are notorious for front end/suspension issues that are very difficult to remedy.
That and the fact that Chryslers are a pain in the A$$ to work on...
He said resale wasn't a big deal to him, as he'd plan on keeping the car for quite some time, but didn't want to deal with the mechanic issues..
Lastly, when I was getting an oil change at the dealership, I struck up a conversation with one of the techs and I asked him about cars that he would stay away from and/or are difficult to work on, and he said Chryslers were #1 on his list.
Now, perhaps things have changed with some of these newer models, but I was curious to get some feedback from a few of you well-informed gentleman.

Doublebase

Crowe, I'd agree that the resale value is poor on the 300, but that probably has something to do with how many of them are on the road...they are a dime a dozen. And the prices are all over the map on those cars...ranging from $10,000-19,500 in my area. And that's win mileage between 30,000-120,000.

Out of the big three American manufacturers I'd consider Chrylser to be the worst in quality and reliability, but I've heard good things recently. I wouldn't consider them to be a pain to work on, in fact when I was in the market for a car a friend and I had a 300 up in the air for something and we both looked at each other and said....this car's going to be easy to work on...especially the brakes and suspension. I never had a problem working on a Chrysler...an Audi? Totally different story. But I find GM, Ford and Chrysler to be reasonably easy because service information is available and there isn't a lot of speciality tools needed. I swear Audi engineers get together in a room, get totally baked and come up with new and unusual ways to screw with mechanics. I swear they do.

CRowe14

I've never seen the underside of an Audi, much less any other German make, but I promise I fully believe you!

Regarding the Chrysler, I will say that they are very sharp vehicles.

I never knew if it was due to my own ignorance or if what I had always heard was true, but I found it a bit strange hearing that any American make was difficult to work on.
Perhaps more prone to break, but not difficult to work on.

Are you tinkering with possible purchase options for down the road??

Oh! Another thing..this very well could be placed in the Car Chat area, but none the less, it is LS-related..
The same neighbor whom I had this conversation with, was telling me how nice of a car the LS "looked" to be, as he has never ridden in one, but knows that it is the top-tier sedan for Lexus. I was telling him one of the things I enjoy most about the car is how well it drives and how refined it is...

He goes on to tell me that I should drive a Ford Flex, and that he has a family member that has one and he "highly" doubts that any car could drive as quiet and smooth as the Flex.
Now, I laughed inside instead of outright as not to come across pompous in any way, So I just replied "really?" However, I had no other rebuttal for his statement, as I have never driven a Ford Flex.

Any contributions from Ford Flex current/previous owners/test drivers??

roadfrog

My niece has one and LOVES it. I had a chance to drive ot for a few hours through mountain passes between two towns in Washington state. I was very impressed. It's a very nice vehicle. Lots of power. lots of high tech gadgetry, and very roomy.

Doublebase

A friend has the Edge - same thing - he does a 140 mile commute everyday in it and loves it. I've driven it and it's comfortable and smooth, but I wouldn't call it overly quiet...the rear cabin can generate noise as all SUV's can.

The Edge and the Flex have three major problems...

One-- The water pump. It's driven by the timing chain UNDER the timing cover. Itrequires the removal of the engine to replace it - a $1,800 dollar repair. And all water pumps fail. And here's the real kicker...because it's under the timing cover, the coolant leaks down directly into the oil pan and saturates the oil with coolant. This is a HUGE problem because if it's not noticed quick enough the bearings in the engine will fail=total engine failure. Ouch!

Two-- PTU (power transfer unit). Ford made these babies unserviceable and claimed the fluid was lifetime, it's not. You can drill a hole and tap a plug in there...exchange the fluid....or siphon it out through the fill hole (they do have a fill hole), but this has to be done early in its lifetime. A $1,8000 dollar repair.

Three-- Transmission. There's a piece of the transmission that gets destroyed because of lack of fluid changes....can't remember what the part is, but I think it's a valve/switching component. Another $1000 plus job

​​​​​​​But I honestly think maintenance will prevent two of those issues, but the water pump? Can't do anything to stop that.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

Tell me about it man, the A8L with a W12 with 500hp+.....what a machine

But its like dating a beautiful stripper with a major coke habit...... you know that its going to end very badly, you just don't know when or how

Il save myself the hassle and not even bother

I do like to take risks from time to time, but I don't find the risk to reward ratio works in my favor with these german cars

Id love to own an S63 amg, but when you end up paying $5k a year in repairs , or more...is it really even worth it?

superdenso

If you came this far, it's best to wait for that Lexus LF-FC Concept before you make a decision.