Gunnin4Em

Hey Club Lexus Fam

I'm in the market for a used 460. I currently drive a 430. After doing some research on the 460, I've come to the conclusion that I want to purchase the 2010 model and up because that's when the mid-model changes occurred. In the mid-model change, I learned that the navigation is a lot better than previous years, music can be streamed via bluetooth, turn signals are added to the side mirrors, the front grill changed, and most importantly the problems with the ball joints/suspension/control arms were addressed by Toyota and those owning a 2010 and up don't have any further problems.

I currently have the 430 with the Ultra Luxury Package and those models came equipped with air suspension. It was common for the air suspension to experience problems on the UL, so many 430 owners decided to get the non-UL to avoid the air suspension issue.

I'm interested in purchasing the 460 with the comfort package (adjustable air suspension). My question to you is 1.) Has anyone had any problems with the 460 air suspension like us UL owners had? and 2.) Has anyone had any significant issues with their 2010 and up 460?

kclark2

[QUOTE

I'm interested in purchasing the 460 with the comfort package (adjustable air suspension). My question to you is 1.) Has anyone had any problems with the 460 air suspension like us UL owners had? and 2.) Has anyone had any significant issues with their 2010 and up 460?[/QUOTE]


I have a 2010 LS 460 purchased CPO at 35,000 miles. I'm now at 70,000. Had control arms replaced under warranty after I complained about noise and roughness going over bumps. No other problems except a faulty cam position sensor that left me stranded. It's now at the dealer for an overheating which I expect will require a new water pump. All in all, it's a pretty solid, reliable car and I'd recommend it. Is it from a private owner? You may need to go newer than 2010 if you want a CPO. Others can comment on their experiences with the air suspension.

roadfrog

I don't own an air equipped LS, but there have been issues with them and CL members here have documented it. The only other significant issues with ANY 460 have been as follows:

1. Control arms
2. Brake Actuator
3. Water pump
4 ML amp

Keep in mind that these problem areas are easily corrected and can be done for cheap. For example, the water pump can be had for less than a hundred bucks and easily installed by a DIY. SAme with the control arms...for about 600 bucks . The amp can be sent away for repair for about 800. The brake actuator is covered by extended warranty by Lexus.

Gunnin4Em

Thanks for your responses.

I'm purchasing it from a dealership. There seems to be no private sellers in the area willing to give up their 460. I'm seeing different prices for them in my area. Anywhere from as low as 17K to 23K at the max.

I paid around $600 dollars for a couple of repairs on my 430 and the price for repairs never went over that amount. That's good news that I won't have to spend a pretty penny on a repair.

It pains me that the ML audio system is still having issues. I've got a blown subwoofer in my UL that by ML. I never bothered to get it repaired because I figured $300 for a new subwoofer (that could potentially go out again) was pointless. I'm starting to side with the Lexus Premium Audio instead of the ML.

shinbob

I believe that not all 2010s have the modified control arms, just the ones produced after a certain date. The TSB has the VIN numbers of the cars that are affected:

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/...dPdf?id=173798

I have a 2010 LS460, and just had the control arms replaced under my CPO warranty. Rides a lot smoother than with the old arms! Other than that, I had a coolant leak (also fixed under warranty), and one strut was leaking (warranty).

Gunnin4Em

I understand. Hopefully the one I'm purchasing has had it's control arms replaced. I will definitely look for extended warranty coverage just in case.

Junglequac

$17000-$23000 seems really low for a 2010 LS460. When looking in Atlanta, the 2007-2008's that were under 100,000 miles with a good service history and no accident history were mostly around $20,000 and sometimes higher. There was a Hyundai dealer that had one with around 75,000 miles and a perfect service history that was blowing out around $18,000.

It might have to do with cars in the South not having issues with corrosion. All I know is that if I could get a sub 100,000 mile 2010 for $17,000, I would have flown to Maryland.
Hopefully the "dealers fees" were not too unctuous as some are as high as $799 and I bet there are places even higher....

roadfrog

It's your choice obviously, but there is NO way I'd get a non-ML system....that would be a deal breaker for me. It's THAT good.My 08 with 125k miles has had no problems with the ML and I abuse the heck out of that system - frequently playing it at 50+ volume with the bass on quite high. But hey....that's me. LOL. Even if it does crap the bed, I know I can repair it for relatively cheap (certainly cheaper than an aftermarket system).

Wandl

I had the same consideration last Jan when I bought my 2010 LS460. The most expensive repairs on the LS pales in comparison with what a repair cost on a BMW or MB would be. I liked the slightly revised styling and the minor changes to the interior, however it isn't very noticeable to be honest.

You could look at a 11 or 12 LS460 that had the redesigned control arms to avoid this issue, you can find those under $25k. I've seen 2010's in my area (dallas) in the low $20s though you'd have to look. AND I would very much get the ML....the issues are so rare and sporadic, the ML makes a noticeable difference. IMHO not the best system in the market but pretty darn good.

roadfrog

Many publications and articles that compared factory sound systems in Rolls, Bentley, Jag, etc, found that the ML in the LS460 was the best sound system (or close to it). Beating out HK, B&O, Bowser & Wilkins,etc. Some audiophiles went so far as to say that it rivaled high end home systems. Tied for first place, the review stated, "It was difficult to find things not to like about this system. It was largely distortion-free. Tonal balance was silky smooth. Timbre and tonal accuracy were palpably lifelike. The sound stage was immense and imaging exact. Dynamics were crisp and well-controlled. Our listening notes revealed very few nits to pick, and they all were in relation to where it fell short of our top choice.

The optional $2,530 system in the 2009 Lexus LS 460 L we tested is a prime example of why it now makes perfect sense to purchase an automaker's premium stereo at this level instead of going with an aftermarket system. And even if you're an avid audiophile seeking the nth degree of performance, you'd be hard-pressed to piece together your own system that performs this well at a similar price."

Now that I've posted this I realize I may be derailing the thread. LOL

Oliver Enterprises

100% agreement!

Gunnin4Em

The ML system in my 01 LS was a turn off to me, although I have to remember that the car is 16 years old and probably wouldn't pump the same audio like it once did when the car was fairly new. Also, I believe that ML system was the first of it's kind, so of course it'll have a few kinks here and there. I will have to test drive a newer LS with the ML system and see the sound quality for myself. I'm not refuting what you guys are saying about the ML system being extraordinarily nice, but I'd love to hear that new ML system.

The bad news is I settled on a 09 LS being sold at a Lexus dealership instead of a 10 and up. The 09 had decent miles at 110K, decent price, was equipped with the comfort package, and the service record shown in the Carfax report was impeccable. That was the real deal breaker for me. Whoever had the car previously took it back to the Lexus dealership religiously for ALL of the scheduled maintenance. It was at least 6 or 7 pages of records from the Carfax.

I'm 30 and as I get a little older, I'm learning to accept that I can't always get what I want. I would have wanted those new upgrades if I could have found an 10 LS from a reputable dealer. All the other dealers had some bad reviews and I didn't get stuck with a lemon, so I thought that was the best deal, especially with that service record.

Wandl

Congrats - that's not bad news! The 09 is a good car still and I think you'll still be really happy with it! You'd rather get a great car and a good price then a good car at a great price, right?

Junglequac

The biggest turnoff for me at least was how underwhelming the ML system sounded in my 2005 Ultra Luxury 430. Was kinda used to it from my stepmother's myriad RX's with ML and my stepfather's GX's.

The 460 system is simply in another category than the prior LS Mark Levinson system and for an OEM is shockingly good. While it might sound humblebragish (so be it), my home theater is worth far more and insured for more than my 460 and with the proper source material, the ML Reference System is shockingly good for an OEM.

It is a shame that .0000000000075436% of you guys probably own DVD-Audio discs as they sound phenomenal on the system. SACD's will not play on the system, but the many SACD/CD hybrids will at least play the CD layer of the disc in the car.

About 10 years ago (more sadly; just old at 40) DVD-A and SACD waged a format war to be the replacement for the CD offering vastly higher sampling rates, dedicated surround channels and most important to the record companies, robust copyright protection.

Needless to say, MP3 and the like one. It is crazy to me as a long time audiophile that LP's have made a huge comeback. Still has the same signal to noise issues, the records will eventually wear out due to a needle digging into vinyl, etc. While I have a very healthy SACD/DVD-A collection, I do not own a single record. I do listen to Spotify Premium all the time through AirPlay and as long as you change the SQ settings in the setup, it sounds decent on my home setup.

The amplifier's reliability is cause for concern. What is interesting is the 460 uses what ML calls GreenEdge amplification. AKA Class D amplification. (Stuff from the dawn of the era to the late 90's and now is either Class A or Class AB with AB being vastly more common with only a handful of hideously expensive amplifiers running Class A (early Krell stuff and others). Better AB amplifiers can run up to the first 27 (Aragon 8008bb) in Class A before switching to AB,

Class D Runs much cooler, draws less power, etc. The best known example of this kind of amplification is ICE amplification.

Gunnin4Em

That was some very interesting knowledge right there. Thanks for the input. I was completely unaware of that war against CDs.

I'm happy to hear that the new ML system is far superior now than before. I will definitely find a 460 with a ML system and try to test out the audio.

Thanks everyone for the help. I really appreciate it.