Hummel

Gentlemen,

I intend to purchase a certified vehicle within a year. I am retired and consider myself a car guy. I have narrowed my market to Audi or Lexus. A7/A8 or GS/LS and not more than two years old with less than 20,000 miles. I will be purchasing. I have owned a Lexus SUV but have no experience with Audi. Does anyone have personal experience with both brands? I know that Audi is considered more of a drivers car, but at my age that is not really a deal breaker. Reliability and fit and finish are important to me. I know Audi has increased their product reliability in the last few years. Audi service would be considerably closer to me. I am interested in your opinions.....biased or not. While my son, who works for Daimler Trucks NA, is out here over Christmas, we will be driving both brands. For me MBZ is out of the question, much to my son's chagrin. Thanks for your help.

SW17LS

Reliability wise Lexus will always be a safer bet than Audi. Yes Audi has done better, and I know lots of people with modern Audis and all are very satisfied, but if you are going to keep it for a long time there is no doubt that an Audi is much more expensive to repair than a Lexus. They have expensive diagnostic equipment which makes service costly, parts are costlier, etc. The nice thing about the Lexus is that anybody can diagnose it and service it. I've had a couple Lexus up close to 200,000 miles including an LS, and really you can have it repaired at a gas station if you want to. Audi isn't going to be this way.

First choice is whether you want a sportier or more luxury minded car. I've had both the GS and the LS, and I've driven several A7s and A8s. The A7 is a beautiful car, but inside its basically identical to the A6, and isn't to the level of the LS, A8, or even arguably the GS. The GS is a great car, great chassis, if you find one with the luxury package it can be better equipped than even the LS. Obviously, not going to be as refined, smooth and silent as the LS and isn't meant to be.

Personally, I would (and did) choose a luxury package GS over an A7. F Sport or base trim GS I would take the A7.

As for the A8 vs the LS. The LS isn't a sporty car, its a great riding, super refined silent cruiser. The A8 is a little sportier, while still being a very quiet great riding car, but not as smooth and quiet as the LS. The A8's interior is a little better in places IMHO, they have great ambient lighting which is very dramatic, material quality may be a little better, tech is a little better. Styling wise I think the LS is a better looking car, IMHO the A6 is actually a better looking car than the A8 with better lines...clearly so is the A7.

If reliability and fit and finish are tops on your list, the question is which is higher? If reliability is, then the Lexus wins out. Fit and finish are going to be equally good, but the A8 feels a little more "special" inside.

Lexuslsguy

Couple CR image for you to check out. The Audi will cost you more in the long run but it will be more of an engaging drive. Superior AWD system as well. The S7 is pretty bad a$$.

Hummel

A fully optioned luxury GS is the only way I would go, and it would probably be a special order. Luxury packages are not generally available here in the Pacific NW. I would be willing to purchase out of state and either drive it home or ship it. For the same amount of money, I could get a low mileage CPO awd LS and be absolutely happy, even if I could not get the color or all of the options I would like. I am leaning towards an LS but as we all know, "happy wife, happy life". She likes the Audi thus far. Actually she tells me to get what I want. I am anxious to drive both brands. Thanks for your input, SW15LS.

Hummel

As far as the Audi, I would be content with the 3.0T in either the A7 or A8. Of course, my 30 year old son would prefer I get an S7 or A8 4.0T.

SW17LS

Yeah the luxury package has become very rare. When I got my 2013 GS in 2012 they were pretty common, but 2015 and onwards they're pretty rare. I think that package does a lot for the car.

Doublebase

I have a friend who was an Audi factory rep...now he owns his owns an Audi repair facility. His business is doing very well, that should tell you something in terms of reliability. I've asked him about the A8 - because I love those cars - he said when they went to timing chain engines they've had some problems with chain stretch. Other than that he didn't say all that much about them, however I wouldn't put an Audi in the same class, in terms of reliability, as a Lexus. They are more of a "specialized" vehicle, requiring special tools and procedures. They are know for oil consumption, ring problems, carbon buildup, tranny issues...and you want to talk about suspension bushings? Audi invented suspension bushing failure. This may or may not apply to the newer Audi A8, but it certainly does to the brand historically. Drive an A4...you'll have a whole new appreciation for Lexus transmissions and direct engine engines.

Having said that, I'd rather own an A8 than an LS460 (and I would if it wasn't for reliability concerns).

I wouldn't call an Audi as bad as a BMW, but there's enough problems out there that I'd be worried about owning one past the warranty period.

Dave144239

I can tell you that my mechanic swears he never wants to change another timing belt on an A4. I was there the day the parts came in - $4400 in parts alone, at wholesale prices. He also had to buy some special tools to work on the car, including one that prevents the crankshaft moving while reassembling the engine. He said if that tool broke off, it would require an engine teardown just to get the tip of it out of the crankshaft. He told me to stick with Toyota/Honda products.

jrmckinley

I'll chime in with my perspective. Here's my story: I'm 37, have a 2004 LS with 243k miles, a 2010 S5 Prestige with 50k miles, my brother in law has a 2013 A7, my father-in-law has a 2012 LS460 (looked at a '14 and bought the '12). I have driven everything you're looking at with the exception of the A8. I was about to buy a '12 LS but changed my mind at the last minute and decided to add something totally different to my garage which is why I went with the S5- I wanted something fun to drive (and had a sudden itch for a 6 speed manual).

My first questions would be: how long do you intend on owning the car, how much do you drive, and are you familiar with Audi's certified program (how long things are covered at no charge, do they include routine service intervals, etc). I'm actually not familiar with Audi's certified program but it would be a major factor in my decision.

Here's my prediction: I think Audi will win the cosmetic battle for interior and exterior (the interior at night is sick!). I think Audi will likely win the "features" battle, possibly including certain safety features (not sure though). I also think Audi will win the driving experience - unless you are looking for a tomb-like ride (which I actually prefer) - then the LS will win. Audi will absolutely win the technology interface battle of how you interact with the car. Lexus will absolutely win the reliability battle, though it may not matter depending on how much you drive and how long you'll keep the car. I bought my S5 4 months ago, have only driven it 700 miles and every time I get in it I'm paranoid something is going to beep at me. Not ironically, I went to drive it today (been sitting 2 weeks) and it wouldn't start- display said battery was low. I'm praying that's all it is- I was so annoyed that I didn't even call AAA (luckily it was in my garage and didn't leave me stranded somewhere). I have had a few weird things happen with the Bang & Olufsen amp which if it goes bad is about $3k to replace. I honestly never think twice about anything going wrong with my LS. Even with 243k miles, I'd drive it cross-country, through the desert in the middle of the summer with no hesitation. However, when the Audi isn't making me paranoid, it's putting a huge smile on my face. They're great cars to actually drive. And I'm blown away by the interior layout (buttons), the Audi MMI system, and some of the features on a 2010 that didn't show up in LS until 2013.

If it were me and I knew I wasn't going to keep the car outside of the warranty period, I would go Audi, and specifically the A7. I'm pretty confident you'll have some pain through ownership and potentially get stranded somewhere thanks to some electrical glitch, but (assuming) you won't be out of pocket for any repair $$, I think you'll forgive the hiccups due to the ability to truly "drive" the car when you want (especially the A7- that thing handles incredibly well). I'm a different type of buyer- I tend to keep my cars a (very) long time, rack up a ton of miles and depreciate my cars faster than most due to how much I drive. So for me, I would go LS (GS doesn't appeal to me whatsoever and has really bad resale) because I love the ride and I know what I'm getting (have owned 3 LS's). I am definitely a Toyota/Lexus loyalist and have been for the last 13 years- primarily because my #1 priority is reliability. My brother-in-law has had his A7 almost 3 years now and hasn't had any issues. I think he has around 50k miles or so.

One thing that I notice on my Audi is I don't think the AC is very good- it gets ice cold but the positioning of the vents is weird and I don't feel I can ever get enough air flow unless I'm at the max fan speed. I live in FL where it's brutally hot from June-Oct.. I think you live in the pacific NW so it may not be as big of a deal, but just pay attention to small details like that. And as stupid as it sounds, drive the cars at night as well so you can check out visibility, the interior layout, interior lighting, etc.

Keep us posted throughout your journey and test drives..! Not sure if you've done this, but would be interesting to post this same question on the Audi forum. I tried joining one after I bought the S5 but no one ever approved my membership..! Maybe they know my true brand loyalty resides with Lexus..?

1BlinkGone

Overall? If it's a DD that you are counting on? Lexus over Audi. IMO..and hands-down. I have driven a few Audi's including the A8. Nice car. Yawn. IMO, Reliability out in the middle of nowhere eclipses bling and perceived marque cachet every time for me for a DD...ESPECIALLY something my wife may be driving. YMMV.

Another factor- I have an acquaintance that is a service-writer at a metro Audi dealership. I asked him one day about current Audi reliability...first thing out of his mouth was, without hesitation, "you don't want one of the Audi's not built in Germany. Plain and simple, end of story. The German built cars have their issues here and there, but the others are at a completely different level of problems. You don't want one of those." Draw your own conclusions...and some of the other comments about ubiquity vs specialized needs for repairs, svc, etc really should be considered for a DD.

Aron9000

I have a buddy who owned several VW products over the span of model years 1995ish to 2006ish. His general consensus was that all his VW's made in the Puebla Mexico factory were total ****, while all the ones made in Germany were awesome, in terms of reliability and how well they were screwed together. He has since owned all Toyota products, including a 1998 4Runner with 300k miles on it that runs like new.

Hummel

I appreciate everyone's input. I did post the same question on the Audi board and have gotten some interesting replies. I am leaning toward the Lexus as my pain threshold has decreased over the years as I have matured (66) for things not working the way they are supposed to. I really do not want to spend anymore time at the service center than the time it takes to change the oil and rotate the tires. CPO for Audi is 6 years, 100,000 miles, with a $50 co-pay per issue. Thanks everyone.

jrmckinley

Keep us updated after you drive everything. Also, may be worth perusing the GS forum - I read some threads on there over the summer with lots of people complaining about resale values. If I remember correctly, the theory was the "mid-size" luxury market is so insanely crowded that cars in that segment tend to get hammered. That's not bad news though if you're looking to buy something 2-3 years old. Based on your preferences, I think you will be impressed with the LS and likely end up with that.

SW17LS

To be fair, the A8 and the A7 are both made in Germany so that comment isn't really applicable.

Bottom line is all cars are reliable nowadays, and Audi is going very well in all reliability measures. I would buy an Audi and keep it 5-6 years without hesitation. Its when its 10 years old my concern would exist, whether thats an issue or not for a buyer depends on how long they're going to keep it.

Hummel

I would like to say that I would keep it for 10 years but generally I start getting the new car bug about every 5. I have been following the GS forum and am interested in that, as well.
I would probably special order a luxury packaged car to my specs and keep that about 10 years to help with the depreciation aspect.