2v1g

When LS was first designed, chief engineer Ichiro Suzuki sought to develop an all-new design, aiming to surpass rival American and European flagship sedans in specific target areas, including aerodynamics, cabin quietness, overall top speed, and fuel efficiency. After it launched, Compared to the rival target BMW 735i (E32) and Mercedes-Benz 420 SE (W126), the LS 400 had a quieter cabin, with 58 dB at 100 kilometres per hour (62 mph); a higher top speed; a lower drag coefficient and curb weight; and it avoided the U.S. Gas Guzzler Tax.

I see lots of talks about G90 lately, but no mention of Tesla. LS is losing almost all the advantages comparing to Tesla. Now with the improved self-driving, Is Tesla a threat to potential Lexus LS buyers? I heard interior in Tesla looks cheap.

iJDMTOY

iTrader: (5)

You should go check out a Tesla it's completely different than the LS. To me, Tesla will not be an LS killer due to the fact that they're not even in the same class. There are amazing features in the Tesla such as the autopilot, but the LS and it's competitors are much more luxurious and hold a higher pedigree than Tesla. Thats my opinion on the subject though.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

Tesla is a threat to all automotive brands , electric is the future whether we like it or not

Have you seen the power the new teslas are making? That's just the beginning, wait a few more years

Scrutator

Range and recharging issues are going to remain for some time. I can't drive a Tesla from Los Angeles to San Francisco without some logistics planning.

roadfrog

Having sat in a Tesla at the auto show, I agree that the luxury in a Tesla is lacking. Yeah it's cool as Hell, and lots of "gee-wizardy", but materials and levels of luxury? Nope. No idea how it drives, other than it goes like stink.

jainla

I would say yes and no.

I've driven the P85 and 85D (my boss has one) and ride in them often. The acceleration is insanely quick, like my hybrid on crack, and the instant torque is completely addictive. The handling, steering and braking are all first class. The Autopilot is crazy cool and somewhat creepy. The Autopark is also awesome. I visited the factory when a friend of mine took delivery and it's pretty cool; but not that different honestly from any other car factory in many respects.

I don't think the Model S is a strict competitor for the LS, 7 etc except for price. The drive is much sportier. It's a small car inside; especially considering how big it is outside; even the LS430 rear seat feels cavernous compared to the Model S rear seat. It's more of a Panamera / Quattroporte / Rapide competitor in many ways.

The interior has gotten better over the last couple years; but the design is still pretty avant garde. The switchgear and materials look and feel like a Mercedes from 10 years ago (which isn't to say they are bad but just not as uber-plush the new S class).

Many in the industry feel that Tesla has set up a wave that may ultimately crush it. While there are real innovations in their product and business model (Super chargers, over the air software and feature updates); they have proven that people will pay for premium electric sports cars. Porsche is already working on a competitor; and I'm sure other manufacturers are going to follow. The question becomes if you had 2 electric cars that were very similar in performance and price, does the Tesla brand by itself command loyalty or not?

Tesla's biggest competitor may be itself. While the current supercharger network is pretty convenient for Model S owners; the hundred thousand Model 3 owners will quickly overrun one of it's main selling points; the ease of recharging. Also the question of if the company can become profitable at those volumes hasn't been answered yet (it's currently burning cash right now).

Also most of the innovations come from the software; not the hardware (the Autopilot itself uses much of the same hardware as the auto drive in the S Class). Some aspects are becoming more common in other cars (my friend's Prius updated it's entertainment unit over the air). Software is easier to update than hardware; and while Tesla has a big lead it's not insurmountable.

I think like the original LS the Tesla has shaken everybody up a bit. It was unexpected, broke new ground in many ways, and pushed the whole industry forward. But manufacturers are already catching up, and soon the market will have many more options. So I don't think the 7 or S class have that much to worry about; as outside of certain markets (LA) the Tesla is still mostly a niche car. Tesla sold about 50,000 cars worldwide last year. Toyota sold that many ES350s in the United States last year.

So they are still a bit of a niche player at this point. They have definitely moved the needle forward; but everybody else is working hard too. 6 years ago there were only 3 hydrogen charging stations in LA, by next year there will be 100; which is far more than the number of superchargers. Refilling a hydrogen car takes 5 minutes vs 30 min for a supercharger. I never thought I would say this but hydrogen may be a player, at least here in SoCal within a couple years. I'm seeing more than a few Mirai's already on the road; and I drove the new Clarity and was impressed by it.

So they are a threat, at least from a technical if not a business standpoint, but everybody else is coming for them.

SW17LS

Certainly any car that sells in the same price bracket to relatively the same demographic is a "threat". However, I personally don't feel Teslas are luxurious enough for me. I appreciate the technology, they're great looking I think, but inside the modern chic thing just leaves me cold.

A Tesla would work for me too the way I use a car nowadays, but I like a really nice luxurious interior and they lack that IMHO.

2v1g

So tesla is luxury in technology but not in interior?

bostonsnow

I would agree that this is a good summary statement.

I think The Teslas and the Lexus LS and other Lexuses are quite different on multiple levels. Technology versus comfort /luxury is one thing

No one has yet commented on reliability. If one looks at consumer reports reliability assessment, Tesla are not doing so well. The Model S was in bad repute, but has just been raised to "average". The new SUV, Model X, is getting way below average reliability assessment from Consumer reports. The early cars are having issues at a relatively high rate......, the fancy bat car doors don't always work etc.

I think that there are probably different buyer groups between Lexus LS and Tesla. Lexus LS buyers often are going with LS as the reliability factor of Lexus is a strong selling point to them. To me, buying a Tesla is sort of, opposite mind set, a risk-taker personality even!
TO get into a Tesla Model X - what are they - well over $100K? And then, if you are buying rather than leasing - you have to deal with the risky reliability. To me, you have to be a real wealthy person for that! Even with a lease , its a hassle to take a new car back in all the time for problems. Sure, Tesla will give you a loaner, but hassle none the less. I can live without that .
The third issue - its so hard to actually get hold of a Tesla, even in California!! I briefly looked into it a year or so ago. The waitlist for a new Model S is still there. You have to wait some. Can't negotiate price down. To get a pre owned one - if you do find one, asking prices are very close to those as a new car.
I think Tesla still has a lot to prove and a lot to change before they can be a threat to Lexus....

SW17LS

To be fair, I do know several people who have gone from flagship luxury sedans, the LS, 7, S Class etc to the Tesla Model S. All are thrilled.

jainla

Me too. My old boss traded a BMW 750i for one. It's nice inside but not as plush as the S class or LS. It's also a lot smaller; especially for how large a car it is outside.

Reliability is still an issue; my (current) boss had his in the shop 7 times (I'm not making this up) until they diagnosed a faulty wiring harness that required a replacement of the headliner.

But then again people by Maseratis and the are also not reknowned for their reliability either.

AL13NV8D3R

I feel electric vehicles are the future but not the near future. We humans are addicted to oil and other fossil fuels, myself included. The governmant "CAFE" wants us to burn less of it over the course of 7 years from now to a ridiculously fleet average of 70 mpg by 2025? Thats insane. Car makers must start building more electric vehicles, hybrids and fuel cells in order to reach that target. When more electric vehicles are being built by other manufactuers this willl drive MSRP price down at Tesla and put electric vehicles within reach of mainstream buyers.

Tesla will only be competitive if prices are at least on par to lexus levels. Right now they just simply cost too much. The have a long way to go if they want more luxury buyers go their way. Teslas interior is well......bland and plastiky which most luxury buyers will consider it low quality.

I personally want to buy one but the only thing holding me back is range anxiety. I drive more than 300 miles a day sometimes and there is not enough charging stations around to alleviate that problem. Most charging stations o
Are half full to completly full at times and when model 3 starts rolling out.... I can see those stations being overrun with them.

Nospinzone

Everybody brought a lot of good points and analysis. Here is another viewpoint. For people who make extended driving trips this car could be problematic. You need to go to a charging station and spend at least a half hour there. I say at least because what if 3 other Teslas are in line ahead of you? Then you're there for 2 hours. I couldn't deal with that inconvenience. And today Tesla formally announced their plans for charging for the charging stations.

My wife loves the look of the car, so much so that we took a test drive in one. However, she just couldn't get one and her reason is she would be scared to death of the battery running out on her and not being able to get to a charging station. Now I will say my wife has never let her fuel needle go below 1/2 in her life. Below 3/4 she starts to get antsy to find a gas station. As much as she loves the car, she just couldn't bear to own one.

BTW, when we took the test drive I asked the salesperson if there were snow tires on the car. The reason I asked is it was very noisy in the cabin. He didn't know but when we ended the drive I checked the tires and they were regular all season ones.

I guess these electric cars are the future, but I'm not looking forward to it. They just don't have the visceral feel of an ICE.

tofu

My friend got rid of her Benz and bought one of the P90D's. It's been a year now and every time I see her, she will not quit bragging about her car, how she never had to pay for gas, oil change, charging whenever she goes out of town because most of the hotels now they give her free charging station.
But let me tell you, that thing can fly. She let me test drive it and it could go from 0-60 less then 3 seconds :-)

roadfrog

I don't think electric is the future as much as others think. I believe the future will follow Europe's pattern of mostly diesel vehicles. Literally 80-90% of vehicles over there are diesel powered. I've driven about 6k miles in France, Belgium, Portugal and Spain, Most of the vehicles are also manual 6 speeds. They're pretty quiet, have enough power to merge onto freeways (even with less than 70-100 hp on tap), and plug along at 80 mpg. I drove a Ford Focus and a Ford Mondeo (Fusion). Both were 4 cylinder engines well under 2 liters. These same vehicles are consistently seen pulling "caravans" (rv's) all over. They think we're crazy at the vehicles we drive and the excess. My cousin who visited from France, think's it's awesome and loves the muscle cars and trucks, but also recognizes is it as gluttony.....much like American diets. LOL

Word is over there, that "super eco diesels" are coming very soon and will easily push the 100 mpg barrier.