superdenso

That was a big movie! Maybe that's why they chose it Nothing can be done about it now, unless you choose an LFA. Toyota and Acura must have the same artist drawing front ends/theirs is just as bad

dlbuckls10

The current LS sales have been declining and the G90 costs less, impressive, elegant and getting good reviews. People will be buying the G90 for those reasons. I still love my LS and I'm waiting to see what the next generation LS will look like and have to offer. I never was a fan of the spindle grill but I have grown to like it.

sloanbj

If they lease for under $200/month like the current Genesis then they are quite the bargain.

​​​​​​​https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2016-...do-better/1391

greg3852

The current Genesis is the equivalent of the G80. Completely different vehicle.

comotiger

Surely, you are joking! You compared apples to oranges. The link is for the 2016 Hyundai Genesis (which will be rebadged as the Genesis G80). We are discussing the G90 which will retail for 65-70K. While Genesis will want to attract a large clientele, I am sure they are trying to siphon away some of the LS/CT6/Jag drivers, not the Camry and Accord folks.

2v1g

I don’t like the Lexus spindle grill when it first came out. After a while, I start to like it more than my 2011 front grills especially when you see the Sports version grill in person. When I want the spindle grill, I want it be bigger and more aggressive like the one on IS & LF-CC

2v1g

Oliver Enterprises

Having worked as a design engineer for both Toyota & Hyundai-Kia, my opinion is biased. I worked for Toyota for 5 years. Loved it, bought a few Toyota vehicles, still own one that I bought while there. Would still be there but the wife didn't like living in Michigan. Then I worked for Hyundai-Kia for 7 years. I never purchased one of their vehicles in 7 years. I don't think the Hyundai-Kia vehicles are the worst vehicles though. Not by far actually. There are certain European vehicles that I would probably apply that to. It's just ... how to say ... compared to Toyota, Hyundai-Kia still have a long way to go. Sure, they're making great strides, but Toyota continues to stride ahead as well. Even if I thought a G90 or whatever would be as good as a Toyota, there's more loss when it comes to resell than compared to the equivalent Toyota vehicle.

So, good looking car or not, I'm not at a point where I would buy a Hyundai-Kia over a Toyota ... unless my decision was totally driven by the difference in cost. Yet if it were totally driven by cost, I would just wait a year to buy a Hyundai-Kia, after it's value has dropped 70 or 80%! (Exaggeration for effect. )

2v1g

Those Hyundai genesis has pretty bad re-sell values.

Nex

horrible resale value. i had a client once who tried to trade in his 14 genesis after owning it for a year and 12k miles and the resale value was less than half of MSRP.

SW17LS

I too like the spindle on the LS, especially the F Sport. I think the LS is probably its best application, some of the newer cars are too over the top IMHO.

Just as a comparison, I've owned 7 Toyota/Lexus vehicles over the past 18 years, and having now owned a Kia/Hyundai product, I don't think I will ever purchase another Toyota. Only Lexus I think I would choose again potentially is another LS, none of the other models do anything for me anymore vs the competition, including that competition from Hyundai/Kia. I really enjoyed my GS also, but the refresh GS is too over the top for me. Certainly every model Toyota I would easily choose the comparable Hyundai/Kia and thats the truth.

My Kia Sedona is one of the most solid vehicles I've ever had, and I've had a lot of nice vehicles.

Resale is poor, but leases are very good. Since I lease, doesn't bother me. My Kia lease is almost no interest, lowest MF I have ever seen, .000001. Better resale will come in time.

2v1g

Haven't driven the LX and GX. LS is the only Toyota I liked. Don't know why Camry is the best selling full size sedan in US.

To me, Mercedes, maybe some Audi too, get the looks

Oliver Enterprises

SW15LS - More power to ya. I hope whatever you buy will always serve you well. I just saw the internal workings and resultant outcome that goes to their customers, of both companies. So I have a different perspective.

Oliver Enterprises

There is a large distribution of buyers who can afford a lower cost vehicle such as a Camry. The Camry is such a great size, it easily easily driven and parked by a much larger distribution of people versus an LS. It fits into just about any garage that is out there. And a Camry does everything well that it is tasked to do. It is a tank, very tough and durable. Sure there are bad ones, just like every other vehicle model out there. But fewer of them are bad. It is an exceptional value, and that is why it is such a good seller. The Camry is Toyota's bread & butter. They knock themselves silly to get it right ... and they are successful. I would own a Camry any day (and I do too ... a 2003 model that's such an incredibly usable vehicle).

I'll be honest, I'm spoiled rotten with what I can afford compared to most. Even if I had a fraction of the resources available to me, I could still afford payments on a brand new Camry, and it would serve me well for years. Sorry, let me step down off my Toyota podium now. I just preach it because I didn't realize how hard I, and all the other engineers worked, on the Camry (while I was there) to get it right, because it was just the norm there. I didn't see that, until I went to Hyundai-Kia and witnessed the difference first-hand in attitude, prowess, pride, ethic, intensity, direction, etc when developing their vehicles.

SW17LS

How long ago was it you worked for Hyundai? I would go so far as to consider myself an expert at assessing the quality of a car, I've done it with passion for so long, and you can see and feel the quality of a vehicle when you sit in it and drive it. You could feel those shortcomings in say a 90s or 80s Ford or GM or Chrysler...or an old Hyundai or Kia, but I feel none of that in my Sedona, or any other modern Hyundai/Kia products I have tried out. The quality is everywhere, from under the hood to the undercarriage, door jambs, firewall, beneath the dash...everything is high quality and well built. There are no rattles or looseness with use, materials stand up to abuse, paint and trim quality is excellent. I just see no evidence of any of what you have described here in the end product...nothing at all.

I have found Hyundai/Kia very accommodating also. For instance, I had warped rotors on both the Sedona and the LS460 about the same mileage in, Lexus told me to pound sand and offered to machine my rotors for $400, Kia replaced my rotors and pads for free and gave me a free tank of gas. Lexus would have done that 30, 20, 15, 10 years ago, not today. And thats Kia, not even the level of service they're going to provide for Genesis.

IMHO Toyota/Lexus are a little overrated nowadays when it comes to "quality" and "service". They rest too much on their name and have let the actual quality and service slip. Hyundai/Kia are on the way up and are working harder to build a better product and provide better service...and its working. Neighbor of mine just traded her Corolla on an Elantra, she's overjoyed and "would never buy another Toyota" because she loves her Sonata so much and liked it so much better than a new Corolla. Give it a few generations here and the landscape will be very different.

I don't think he's comparing the Camry to the LS. You don't need to, the Camry is completely unappealing compared to almost every competitor at its own price point IMHO. The Camry sells because its a "Toyota Camry", not because its the best product in its class because it isn't, not by a WIDE margin. Over time you'll see that wear on their market share, it already has.

Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Mazda 6, Honda Accord, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu...all of these vehicles are substantially better than a Camry in every way except perceived quality and reliability.

How long ago were you at Toyota?

Because if thats really the case that amount of effort was put in, and this Camry is what they came out with vs the competition with them "half assing it"...then Toyota truly has a problem on their hands because in my opinions and the opinions of a lot of others the end product is really mediocre.