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The "diesel clatter"he's talking about is not an issue with the car, its a characteristic of the direct injection system. Its just how the engine sounds.
Nobody is saying the car is perfect, no car is perfect...of course repairs are going to be required from time to time. Its a question of how often do you have reliability failures with this car vs other cars. Your "seat of the pants" analysis isn't of any value, you can sit here and cherry pick threads in this one forum all day, but this is not a relative sample of these vehicles as a whole. There are entities that track this data, Consumer Reports, JD Power, so on and so forth, and if you look at the data provided by those entities you will see that the LS is in fact a very reliable car. Nobody would objectively look at that information and come to any other conclusion.
Something can be "very reliable" and not "perfect". The only person who uses the word "perfect" is you.
The "diesel clatter"he's talking about is not an issue with the car, its a characteristic of the direct injection system. Its just how the engine sounds.
Nobody is saying the car is perfect, no car is perfect...of course repairs are going to be required from time to time. Its a question of how often do you have reliability failures with this car vs other cars. Your "seat of the pants" analysis isn't of any value, you can sit here and cherry pick threads in this one forum all day, but this is not a relative sample of these vehicles as a whole. There are entities that track this data, Consumer Reports, JD Power, so on and so forth, and if you look at the data provided by those entities you will see that the LS is in fact a very reliable car. Nobody would objectively look at that information and come to any other conclusion.
Something can be "very reliable" and not "perfect". The only person who uses the word "perfect" is you.
When you respond in the "negative tone" it makes me think you intend to mislead. Which means 99% of your angry post responses to me are fallacious. Let's not have an online argument today. Please keep it about the cars minus the heartfelt tension
I keep reading these are few and infrequent, or it's not everybody, or it's blown out of proportion. Give me a break. The 13's+ are no better than the first LS. It's a beautiful and reliable car, but it is not perfect and repairs are required.
Mr. Denso:
May I ask, who and in what thread has anyone referred to this car as being "perfect"?
I guess one who provides severe objective view(s) provides a certain level of entertainment, however you actually seem to strongly dislike this car. You've had some favorable dialogue regarding the LS, but for the most part, its nearly all not only negative, but more importantly, its misinforming.
Regarding Steve and his "fallacious" ways, though I may not agree with everything he types, I will say he is very data/fact driven, and makes efforts to support statements on both sides of many subject matters.
I'd go as far to say that many of us are honest with sharing our experiences with this car, older to newer, and try our best to provide value-add feedback.
The LS is by no means a perfect car, but what other luxury brand in this segment, over a prolonged period of time, has performed better across the automotive spectrum?
No cynicism here, as I am posing an honest question...
Trucks are a different matter. Both GM and Ford have always done a very good job on their full sized trucks. They have to, enterprise users who buy a ton of them, farmers, construction folks, etc won't put up with poor reliability.
Agreed.
Be that as it may, I always found/find it disturbing that there are essentially 2 practices in place when it comes to manufacturing a vehicle.
Originally Posted by Doublebase
I agree the Tahoe with the 5.3 LS engines were/are excellent. Their cars in those years...the Malibu and Impala were pretty bad. Both had numerous problems that could nickel and dime you to death...steering racks went on those cars all the time, control arms too, wheel bearings were a regular occurrence, struts had big problems at the upper bearing mount, water pumps, starters, alternators, and the check engine lights??? My lord!! Misfire heaven! Egr problems, 02 sensors, evap leaks, air pumps, mass air flow. And if you had the 3.3 liter?!?! Intake gaskets every 35,000 miles.
Great trucks! Powerful, snow beasts in 4x4, comfortable, roomy with very little blind spot areas.
I keep reading these are few and infrequent, or it's not everybody, or it's blown out of proportion. Give me a break. The 13's+ are no better than the first LS. It's a beautiful and reliable car, but it is not perfect and repairs are required.
I checked that thread out and I see and hear only crickets chirping. No responses (so far). The "clatter" is not unique to the 13's or any newer vehicles of any make. It's symptomatic of direct injection. As for transmission whine, I have no idea, but I haven't seen any posts about that one.
You're right though, any vehicle will require repairs. After 120k miles on my LS, I've replaced a water pump and mufflers for a grand sum of about 500 bucks. This isn't unique either. Other than a few CA's, most member here have had very few issues, if any.
The LS is a small volume product@10k or less per yr. The CTS is 5x the LS sales. Unless we know more about the stats/they are dots on a paper. The only caddy product I'm closely associated with is a v-series. Please don't ask me to compare it to an F-sport
The LS is a small volume product now, but it wasn't always, CR has tons of data about LS reliability compiled over many years, and they project reliability for a given model based on data they have for that brand as a whole too. For instance your year they sold 40,000 LSs. If CR feels they don't have enough data to issue a projection, they don't. Look at their figures on the S Class and 7 Series...they're blank.
The fact that there are more CTS' on the road statistically doesn't matter. They compare issues per 100 cars which accounts for differences in volume.
Sounds to me like a trip to the Caddy dealer is in order for you.
Bottom line is this is how Consumer Reports sees it:
I don't typically jump into threads when the most remote hints of a pi**ing context begin to emerge (i.e., I am a Lexus/car enthusiast with no interest or time to engage in anything other than rational discussion on CL, a forum that I thoroughly enjoy), but I have to ask, what point are you ultimately trying to make? Honestly, it's like you're trying to be a contrarian just for the fun of it, but please do correct me if I am mistaken.
Yes, there have been plenty of LS460 bugs for the factory to work out, and as the model years went by problems did diminish (as they do for most cars). More specifically, my '08 LS, which was running phenomenally by the time Lexus was done with it, did undergo north of $20k in warranty repairs, as it had its share of unusual problems. At the time, it certainly did not feel like a "highly reliable" vehicle, and I was ticked off plenty at the situation. However, Lexus stepped up to the plate like no other manufacturer I've ever dealt with, foreign or domestic (with the latter being notorious for being particularly nonchalant about difficult-to-troubleshoot problems), and the car drove like a dream after, smoother and more solid than any other vehicle I have owned. The only reason I got rid of it was to kill that annoying 600 itch for my "milestone" birthday...
While it's a tough pill to swallow when you are the one with the issues (and I fully empathize with such people), reliability statistics are - for good reason - based on a substantial sample size. On that basis, as evidenced by the data above, the LS has been and continues to be at the top in terms of reliability on an aggregate basis and relative to other vehicles (which is key here). Thus, as frustrating as it is to deal with certain problems, I cannot, for the life of me, understand what the point of this discussion (culminating with your statement about not wanting a sedan) is.
Regarding Cadillac, I have always been a fan of the brand, albeit from a safe distance (i.e., rentals only)... They have come a long way, but the quality just is not the same as Lexus, and neither is the service (again, in aggregate; I do expect there to be some genuinely good Cadillac service departments just as there are some bad apples in the Lexus dealer arena). Last year, I rented a brand new Escalade, and while at the time, it felt light years ahead in terms of technology (relative to our LX - no longer an issue for 2016+ LX), ride and build quality did leave much to be desired, especially for a vehicle with 7k miles only. A popping/ticking clock spring on the steering was just the tip of the iceberg.
I don't typically jump into threads when the most remote hints of a pi**ing context begin to emerge (i.e., I am a Lexus/car enthusiast with no interest or time to engage in anything other than rational discussion on CL, a forum that I thoroughly enjoy), but I have to ask, what point are you ultimately trying to make? Honestly, it's like you're trying to be a contrarian just for the fun of it, but please do correct me if I am mistaken.
Yes, there have been plenty of LS460 bugs for the factory to work out, and as the model years went by problems did diminish (as they do for most cars). More specifically, my '08 LS, which was running phenomenally by the time Lexus was done with it, did undergo north of $20k in warranty repairs, as it had its share of unusual problems. At the time, it certainly did not feel like a "highly reliable" vehicle, and I was ticked off plenty at the situation. However, Lexus stepped up to the plate like no other manufacturer I've ever dealt with, foreign or domestic (with the latter being notorious for being particularly nonchalant about difficult-to-troubleshoot problems), and the car drove like a dream after, smoother and more solid than any other vehicle I have owned. The only reason I got rid of it was to kill that annoying 600 itch for my "milestone" birthday...
While it's a tough pill to swallow when you are the one with the issues (and I fully empathize with such people), reliability statistics are - for good reason - based on a substantial sample size. On that basis, as evidenced by the data above, the LS has been and continues to be at the top in terms of reliability on an aggregate basis and relative to other vehicles (which is key here). Thus, as frustrating as it is to deal with certain problems, I cannot, for the life of me, understand what the point of this discussion (culminating with your statement about not wanting a sedan) is.
Regarding Cadillac, I have always been a fan of the brand, albeit from a safe distance (i.e., rentals only)... They have come a long way, but the quality just is not the same as Lexus, and neither is the service (again, in aggregate; I do expect there to be some genuinely good Cadillac service departments just as there are some bad apples in the Lexus dealer arena). Last year, I rented a brand new Escalade, and while at the time, it felt light years ahead in terms of technology (relative to our LX - no longer an issue for 2016+ LX), ride and build quality did leave much to be desired, especially for a vehicle with 7k miles only. A popping/ticking clock spring on the steering was just the tip of the iceberg.
I appreciate your interest in the thread, but perhaps you should jump in a debate when you know the "shoot". The poster SW alluded to me running down to the GM dealer and purchasing a CT6: "Sounds to me like a trip to the Caddy dealer is in order for you". Again, it's better to know what's goin' before you get out there like you know the "shoot".
Now, about your LS, "20K" in repairs is a car I don't want to own/I get that "repaired" car back from the dealer and I sell that car. Few owners can say they only changed the water pump, but it leads me to believe they are the "slum-lord" of car owners and latent repairs are on the list of things to do. Kinda stinks that you had the 20k in repairs, but did you contact JD Power or CR and tell them? Then my point is their numbers are not the numbers. You have purchasing decisions being made based on green and red dots on webpage. This LS venture has taught me to join a forum before the purchase. The LS is a good car but only the seatbelt pretensioner is more reliable than my Benz.
Honestly, it's like you're trying to be a contrarian just for the fun of it, but please do correct me if I am mistaken.
It's why certain members end up on so many ignore lists. I haven't because sometimes it's amusing enough to warrant a read. Unfortunately, it can also cause some members to move on. I miss a few members who chose to leave this forum of late. They actually had productive input and weren't trolling. It's unfortunate, but I guess its unavoidable. When the moderators do make a move, it's often overzealous and censoring the wrong party. But your right, so much contradiction and it's frustrating. Alas, I'll stick around for now as I truly enjoy the more positive interactions.
I miss a few members who chose to leave this forum of late. They actually had productive input and weren't trolling. It's unfortunate, but I guess its unavoidable.
10-27-16, 06:56 AM
