Shibumi1

for the last an final time. deep cycle batteries yellow tops included.. cannot be rapid charged (buy an alternator or charger) without shortening it's life.. yes the starting battery isn't designed to be drained to near zero voltage (neither is the oem fluid filled batt). is it your intent to completely drain your battery? to what end? I've never had a dead Red so it's a ridiculous discussion to say that "when" my batt dies I can recharge it HUNDREDS OF TIMES!!!! only to now wait +6hrs (at minimum) to trickle charge it back to full? So.. if u already have a trickle charger (or maintainer) at the ready (because you've no doubt done this ).. why not just put it on your battery b4 the damn thing dies in the 1st place?

fyi Optima suggests buying the Yellow over Red.. because the yellow is the most expensive batt they sell (D34).. I wonder why they would recommend that 1... When in doubt buy the expensive one!!!!

with the $40 u save buying a Red. Buy a Battery Tender Waterproof.. an dont have a dead batt in the 1st place.. (if I drive my Ls once a month it's a miracle an the red hasn't failed yet)

but never mind what my almost 30 yrs of knowledge an experience exclusively in car audio an electronics has taught me. listen to the guy that made a YouTube vid... because he must be giving you the truth.

proximity to the oem starting battery is not a necessity as long as the gauge wire is large enough to handle the current load.. (mercs,bmw,audi, etc) have their starting batts in the trunk!!! my aux batt is to handle the load of my extreme audio system.. it's only tied into my charging system once the engines already on & charging.. by the way U MUST HAVE THE EXACT SAME SIZE AN MODEL BATTS IN THE CAR IF U PLAN ON ADDING MORE THAN THE 1 STARTING BATTERY.. if u have different batts they'll recharge at different rates causing over/under charging issues (but I'm sure u knew that someone must have made a video about it)

we can debate this indefinitely u have your views as I have mine.. each battery has its benefits an draw backs.. as I said b4 buy the batt that suits your needs... u know u better than anyone else.. if u plan on parking your car (without a charger or maintainer connected) until the battery dies.. then by all means buy a yellow.. if u use your car as a daily driver the buy the red.. (or yellow if u feel it's better) if this thread has proven anything its that the Optima's are better than the fluid filled batts that came stock in our cars.. (& that I may need to start making YouTube videos)

superdenso

Dude if you make a Youtube video with two Reds in it I will watch it 10x myself (I'll support you). The Reds and the Yellows are priced identically in the market at $190. Go on down to Advance Auto and get your self a set...you deserve em'. After 30yrs it's only right. An LS uses a Denso Starter Part #280-0370 that requires 116 amps so figure out how the 1kca Red fits in here. Red Tops are very strong, but I learned there limits when I had some friendly standby computers smite two of them. Keep them charged and they're fine, but too many discharges and they're out of business

Shibumi1

I just reread the entire thread a few corrections. 1st the alternator isn't an unlimited "current" source.. most oem car alternators are limited to 80 or 90 amps.. anything higher would most likely be aftermarket. so if your cars electrical draw is 60amps continuous while running that leaves 20 amps to charge the batt.. now factor in phone chargers, high audio volume levels u can easily reach the alternators limits . at that point the battery lends itself to the charging system to cover the overages.

2nd the car designers don't design a car around the battery. if anything its the exact opposite.. they build a car then source out a batt that will fit the needs of the system they've designed (at the lowest possible price)

3rd after about 10mins of sitting unused & or locked 90% of the vehicles systems shut down to save battery power. yes some systems remain active buts at the absolute minimum of current draw.. an the keyless fob detection system cycles on an off (every few secs or even minutes depending on how long youve been gone the longer youre away the longer the cycle) to save power its not "always on" this is why sometimes when walk up to the car it doesn't immediately open or unlock requiring you to either touch the door handle or press the fob.

4th the red are not exclusively for "hard starting" cars.. they're designed for cars all cars.. yes if u have a hard starting car an optima is awesome because it's a strong battery even under heavy loads..

lastly the yellows can be put on an alternator (any amperage) BUT once the temp reaches 125°F it will only take a low amperage charge (in a cars engine compartment it will reach that temp quickly) if read the specs the Reds operate similarly .. the difference being by the time the red reaches the same125°F it's more than 90% charged.. so the lower amperage serves to top off its voltage.

in conclusion it stands to reason if u plan on letting your car sit for long periods of time undriven.. buy a Battery Tender an never have a dead batt to begin with.. for those so concerned about the environment your driving hybrids anyway an this thread isn't for you, those that are concerned about random idling I'm SURE you turn your cars off at EVERY red light to save us your noxious emissions. But for the rest of us... $2 a gallon an a battery tender in case u take a long vacation to a rain forest will keep u from having a dead batt..

(optima's are on Amazon Prime $145 free shipping with the same warranty but no core charge)

like a fat kid in dodgeball.... I'm out!

superdenso

It is a poor decision to idle a car for more than for innumerable reasons. Not going back into that. If you're not driving, shut it down. Each driver can decide for his/herself. One thing is certain, your car may have 10,000 miles on it but idling will accelerate wear on components

When you start a red yellow or blue they regain their capacity at the same rate when connected to an alternator. If there is a difference it is moot. Confirmed

You can play kids games but that RedTop is a starting unit bested in every way by Yellow

Let it go

Shibumi1

as I've already showed from optima's own website.. the Red stronger by at least 50CCA.. but the yellow has a longer reserve time from anywhere from 5 to 20mins..
(the only proof u have is a video that doesn't give an specifications just opinion) I've shown printed facts from the manufacturers own website.

again the only advantage to a yellow is "if" it dies it can be recharged more times than a Red... which poses the question how many times do u intended to deplete your battery...

I've proven my point multiple times multiple ways.. but 1 last time won't hurt.. the Red weighs less,costs less,has only 5 minutes less reserve time than the yellow but has 50CCA more power an is RECOMMENDED BY OPTIMA'S OWN WEBSITE for our cars. now I did say the SC34U =Red(34/78) is my personal choice as it's the strongest batt available (but due to the post locations the connectors need to be slightly bent to fit.. the Red 25 is a direct replacement with zero mods needed).. I've only ever had to repeat myself so many times to my 3yr old niece. so this is how childish I must now get.... Say it with me slowly Superdenso...."I was wrong....& You were right"

but seeing as it's all personal preference anyway. Optima is not the only batt company out there.. many other options at many price points are available. only the person purchasing the battery knows their driving habits, budget, an needs out of a battery. this thread originally asked Die Hard or Optima Red... I answered based on my 28 yrs of 1st hand knowledge an personal experience in the car audio industry(working on hundreds of cars) by doing the research an sometimes trial an error (because I've tried the yellows MANY TIMES) but due to the very specific nature of their charging requirements an multiple failures I found the Reds outperform them for the averge user.. No hard feelings... it's nothing personal, good is good but better is better..

Shibumi1

it just dawned on me... there was a statement made about doing damage to the environment due to idling in order to prolong battery life. the same person then stated that after a specific time 5 or 6 yrs (that's unclear) that regardless of condition they get rid of their batt to buy a new 1... doesn't that add to landfills, cost of materials & manufacture to replace the batt damage our environment??? wouldn't keeping the battery that's already taxed our planet once, be better still in the car (properly maintained) for as long,as it lasts.. rather than casually tossing it away an purchasing an unnecessary new 1???

I now return u to your regularly scheduled thread.....

superdenso

Shibumi you've been doin this 25yrs and it's still amateur nite. Maybe you oughta' let your neice run the shop! At least you gave up on fallacy of the "alternator charge times." You're just not ready to learn. Keep your Reds this way the Yellows are always in stock at the same $$ for me.

Today, car batteries are recycled, so waiting to be stranded with an aging battery is not wise.

Now for the specs...25 Red (720cca) is weaker than Yellow 34/78 (750cca). The Yellow leaves more room for error. For example: Your battery is still good even it takes you 2 months and 10 discharges to figure out the culprit...red goes to recycling.

This is a comedy routine, but hopefully someone learned 1 more thing about cars. If so it was well worth the effort.

superdenso

Excessive idling can actually damage your engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems. An idling engine is not operating at its peak temperature, which means that fuel does not undergo complete combustion. This leaves fuel residue that can condense on cylinder walls, where they can contaminate the oil and damage parts of the engine. For example, fuel residues are often deposited on spark plugs. As you spend more time idling, the average temperature of the spark plug drops. This makes the plug get dirty more quickly, which increases fuel consumption by four to five percent. Excessive Idling also lets water condense in the vehicle's exhaust, leading to corrosion and can reduce the life of the exhaust system.


http://www.scdhec.gov/HomeandEnvironment/docs/ModelOrdinances/EngineIdlingControl.pdf

jmcraney

This thread seems to have turned into an Optima Battery commercial.

Please be aware that Optima is not the only manufacturer of AGM automotive batteries. There are lots of AGM batteries available from other major manufacturers.

superdenso and Shibumi1, you each get one more salvo, and that's it - please make it respectful.

roadfrog

You know arguments are getting weak when one has to resort to environmental concerns while we're driving behemoths that are bigger and more powerful than we truly need. LOL.

Besides...don't you Americans have recycling? Even our local dump accepts used car batteries for recycling. I never have to bother though, since I need to return my old battery back to the store I bought the replacement in order to get my core charge refunded.

My wet cell battery has served me very well for about a hundred bucks.

Shibumi1

Optima recommends the Red 25 (720cca)(not me), You recommend the Yellow 34/78 (750cca) I recommended the Red 34/78 (800cca). So based on your logic if the Yellow 34/78 leaves more room for error than the Red 25.. then the Red 34/78 must be the way to go as it's stronger by 50cca (whIle only having 5 mins less reserve time) than the Yellow 34/78 because theres even more room for error. by more than twice the margin of the yellow over the Red 25..

Also current draw issus can be solved in an afternoon (with $10 in parts an some patience) not 2 months (a simple test light an a fuse puller is all that's usually needed to locate current draw) Remove all fuses that have 12v while the key is off... (it's easier if u place them in the order u remove them so you'll know where the go back in) Remove the negative terminal an place the test light in between the negative terminal an the negative battery post. (all a fuses that have power are out the test light should not be illuminated) if it is.. continue to remove fuses til it goes out. when it does chances are that's the circuit that needs attention...

Dead batteries are more likely to be from human error (leaving in phone chargers, dome lights on or a door open , improper batt maintenance,etc) than a flaw in the vehicle. random failures aren't impossible but unlikely. if the drain started after work was done to the car START THERE 1ST..

Dr. Jekyll

iTrader: (1)

All I can say is I finally learned the difference between a yellow and red top! Still don't know what's prudent as my friends in the electronics biz swear by yellow tops as primaries and my personal experience with red tops was replacing them annually in my LX450.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

part of thermodynamics principals......... Even though not related to battery discussion, just wanted to give credit superdenso for highlighted comment.

GenXY

Lexus/Interstate 00544-MF240-575

Comes with a 6 year warranty good at any Lexus dealer. Today I experienced a dead battery and they replaced it no charge (old battery was dated 7/15). They did say I get a fresh 6-year warranty on it.

Kennyr44

I enjoyed reading about the Optima batteries, but yesterday I just went to WalMart and bought a MAXX. My car almost didn't start for a couple days. I charged the battery and one of my testers said it was good and one said bad. The drop test, under 10 volts with a load on it is the final say. $99, 3 year no questions and 5 years pro rated. These are the batteries I've been using for my cars for over 10 years. They rarely need to be warranted. Worse part was resetting 18 XM stations and dealing with those engine cover clips.