In 1 Sentence: What (if anything) do you miss about your LS 430?
07-15-16, 04:16 AM
#31
Pole Position
The 460 is faster once you wind it out toward redline and can feel the extra 90 hp, but the 4.6 is a somewhat peaky motor (by comparison) and doesn't feel as torquey as the 430 just puttering around town at 2k RPM. That's not to say it lacks torque or anything, but the 460 isn't as waftable. I also felt the 8spd auto was overkill and hunted too much. I've driven both cars thoroughly and much prefer the 4.3 for the way it sounds (the 4.6 doesn't sound like ripping silk like the UZ motors do), the fact that it's noticeably smoother and quieter, and the more accessible low-end torque.
Still, though, the 460 is, well, an LS. So it's still a great, serene driving experience. But when I drove a 460 I did notice these things about the drivetrain. I think they took a step backwards in refinement with the UR.
And please, guys, don't read into this the wrong way. No offense. I just felt like chiming in bc I was considering trading in my 430 for this stunning '11 LS460 but there was nothing that it did better (some things it didn't do as well) than the 430. I was beyond smitten with the looks (silver with the chrome '19s), but the rest of the car didn't feel like any sort of upgrade, other than newer telematics, Nav, etc., which is stuff I don't care about anyway.
Still, though, the 460 is, well, an LS. So it's still a great, serene driving experience. But when I drove a 460 I did notice these things about the drivetrain. I think they took a step backwards in refinement with the UR.
And please, guys, don't read into this the wrong way. No offense. I just felt like chiming in bc I was considering trading in my 430 for this stunning '11 LS460 but there was nothing that it did better (some things it didn't do as well) than the 430. I was beyond smitten with the looks (silver with the chrome '19s), but the rest of the car didn't feel like any sort of upgrade, other than newer telematics, Nav, etc., which is stuff I don't care about anyway.
As for the engine...it idles at 500 rpm, it can rev very quickly (in fact it's probably more snappy than 4's and 6's), yet it is still smooth...not as smooth as a 430, but unlike the 430 it has another side to it that the 430 doesn't have...a energetic side that wants to go. I think it's a versatile achievement.
I do like the LS430's smoothness. I've always found that fascinating from an engine. Toyotas V8s earlier in the century were all very smooth. Ever drive a Tundra or Sequia from say 2002-2007? Smoother than any truck you'll ever drive. Like butter.
07-15-16, 11:58 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Personally, I agree about the transmission. I prefer the 6 speed in the 430, and even the 5 speed in the 400 to the 8 speed in the 460. I've never driven a car with one of these super multi-gear automatics that I liked the shift logic on. Every once and a while it'll get hung in some higher gear and the engine will hang at a high RPM and abruptly snap into the appropriate gear feeling like its a manual being driven by someone who doesn't drive one very well. When you go to try and make it kick down, its got to go 2-3 gears down to get the ratio your throttle input demands, which is why it feels peakier and more sluggish to throttle inputs.
Even modern 5 and 6 speeds though, the ratios are so tall for fuel economy that their shift logic is strange too.
I find that I'm happier with the transmission in eco mode. Its peppier in normal or sport, and in the 430 and 400 I always ran in ECT PWR, but it shifts less in eco and overall I like that better.
So all in all I too would say I prefer the UZ powertrain, but that wouldn't make me go back and buy a 430. The 430s are ancient now IMHO, the styling is dated, technology is archaic. Technology is important to me, I use the nav every day, use the BT audio every day. I use the destination assist through enform nearly every day. I really like the iPhone app for vehicle status, lock/unlock, remote start, etc.
Remember too that when you aren't comparing them directly every day, subtle differences here and there don't jump out at you as much.
Even modern 5 and 6 speeds though, the ratios are so tall for fuel economy that their shift logic is strange too.
I find that I'm happier with the transmission in eco mode. Its peppier in normal or sport, and in the 430 and 400 I always ran in ECT PWR, but it shifts less in eco and overall I like that better.
So all in all I too would say I prefer the UZ powertrain, but that wouldn't make me go back and buy a 430. The 430s are ancient now IMHO, the styling is dated, technology is archaic. Technology is important to me, I use the nav every day, use the BT audio every day. I use the destination assist through enform nearly every day. I really like the iPhone app for vehicle status, lock/unlock, remote start, etc.
Remember too that when you aren't comparing them directly every day, subtle differences here and there don't jump out at you as much.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-15-16 at 12:04 PM.
07-15-16, 12:22 PM
#33
The 430 seats were soft like butter and more comfortable.
07-15-16, 12:24 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
07-15-16, 01:37 PM
#35
[QUOTE=SW15LS;9553838]Personally, I agree about the transmission. I prefer the 6 speed in the 430, and even the 5 speed in the 400 to the 8 speed in the 460. I've never driven a car with one of these super multi-gear automatics that I liked the shift logic on. Every once and a while it'll get hung in some higher gear and the engine will hang at a high RPM and abruptly snap into the appropriate gear feeling like its a manual being driven by someone who doesn't drive one very well. When you go to try and make it kick down, its got to go 2-3 gears down to get the ratio your throttle input demands, which is why it feels peakier and more sluggish to throttle inputs.
I like the 7 speed in my Mercedes. It feels perfect. I think 6 or 7 is the correct number. I skipped the 430 so I'm no help,
I like the 7 speed in my Mercedes. It feels perfect. I think 6 or 7 is the correct number. I skipped the 430 so I'm no help,
07-16-16, 05:15 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
07-16-16, 09:19 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
When I had my '08 repaired after a collision with a deer, the body shop I used was part of a GM/Cadillac dealership that has an excellent reputation. When I picked up my car, the shop manager couldn't stop praising how quiet and smooth my car was and specifically made mention of the transmission. He couldn't believe how smooth the transmission shifted and seamlessly it did so. He compared it to the dealerships Caddys and made a comment, something to the effect of being the smoothest and quietest car he had ever driven. and was shocked at the age of my car and the mileage it had.
07-16-16, 11:46 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
The transmission shifts smoothly, it's just the logic of what gear it's in and when.
I've driven way worse.
I've driven way worse.
07-16-16, 02:16 PM
#41
Pole Position
Yes, I have ML. In my 2006 LS430 one could select the seat position from the display and it would "optimize" the sound for either the driver, driver and front passenger, rear passengers or all four. In the 2013 LS460 one must use the left-right balance and front-rear balance controls to attempt to do something similar.
I believe that the 430's system did more than just change balance. There was a noticeable "shift" in the soundstage, which may have been achieved with additional audio processing. I suspect that the processor changed the timing of one or more of the speakers when optimized for the driver.
I believe that the 430's system did more than just change balance. There was a noticeable "shift" in the soundstage, which may have been achieved with additional audio processing. I suspect that the processor changed the timing of one or more of the speakers when optimized for the driver.
07-16-16, 02:25 PM
#42
Yes, I have ML. In my 2006 LS430 one could select the seat position from the display and it would "optimize" the sound for either the driver, driver and front passenger, rear passengers or all four. In the 2013 LS460 one must use the left-right balance and front-rear balance controls to attempt to do something similar.
I believe that the 430's system did more than just change balance. There was a noticeable "shift" in the soundstage, which may have been achieved with additional audio processing. I suspect that the processor changed the timing of one or more of the speakers when optimized for the driver.
I believe that the 430's system did more than just change balance. There was a noticeable "shift" in the soundstage, which may have been achieved with additional audio processing. I suspect that the processor changed the timing of one or more of the speakers when optimized for the driver.
07-17-16, 12:32 AM
#43
When I had my '08 repaired after a collision with a deer, the body shop I used was part of a GM/Cadillac dealership that has an excellent reputation. When I picked up my car, the shop manager couldn't stop praising how quiet and smooth my car was and specifically made mention of the transmission. He couldn't believe how smooth the transmission shifted and seamlessly it did so. He compared it to the dealerships Caddys and made a comment, something to the effect of being the smoothest and quietest car he had ever driven. and was shocked at the age of my car and the mileage it had.
Interesting that Cadillac is using it; also it will be showing up in the Corvette apparently; at least for next year.
With the new 10sp automatic these seem to be moving in the direction of a CVT... so many ratios. It might make sense for transmissions to 'pick' a shift sequence based on load, driving style, etc so they can only shift through half the gears; but pick the right 5 gears for each situation. if someone makes a 12sp (and you know they will) it would be an interesting idea; 4 shifts for comfort, 6 for sport, etc.
07-17-16, 02:26 PM
#44
Pole Position
There have been a lot of software updates for the 8sp automatic; so if yours isn't behaving you might want to have the dealer check and see what version of the software you are running. Lexus uses it in almost every sedan they offer so it's pretty well sorted by this time.
Interesting that Cadillac is using it; also it will be showing up in the Corvette apparently; at least for next year.
With the new 10sp automatic these seem to be moving in the direction of a CVT... so many ratios. It might make sense for transmissions to 'pick' a shift sequence based on load, driving style, etc so they can only shift through half the gears; but pick the right 5 gears for each situation. if someone makes a 12sp (and you know they will) it would be an interesting idea; 4 shifts for comfort, 6 for sport, etc.
Interesting that Cadillac is using it; also it will be showing up in the Corvette apparently; at least for next year.
With the new 10sp automatic these seem to be moving in the direction of a CVT... so many ratios. It might make sense for transmissions to 'pick' a shift sequence based on load, driving style, etc so they can only shift through half the gears; but pick the right 5 gears for each situation. if someone makes a 12sp (and you know they will) it would be an interesting idea; 4 shifts for comfort, 6 for sport, etc.
07-17-16, 06:02 PM
#45
Having both available it is easy to see why both cars are well regarded.
Which one is better? Seems subjective but they do drive differently. The 430 was the wife's DD before the 460 and she likes the 460 better. The 430 is now my DD and I prefer the 430 mostly for it's smoother handling and acceleration curve (albeit the 460 is of course faster).
As for interior and the like, the 430 is nice but the 460 being 13 years newer wins that battle.
The NAV and entertainment system is subjective as well. I prefer the easy to use and simpler 430 but no argument the 460 has more capabilities.
Nice to have both but I can see why a 430 owner may miss some things being in a 460. Brand new never-had-a-430 460 owners will not miss a thing.... LOL....
(Sorry.... way more than 1 sentence.....)
Which one is better? Seems subjective but they do drive differently. The 430 was the wife's DD before the 460 and she likes the 460 better. The 430 is now my DD and I prefer the 430 mostly for it's smoother handling and acceleration curve (albeit the 460 is of course faster).
As for interior and the like, the 430 is nice but the 460 being 13 years newer wins that battle.
The NAV and entertainment system is subjective as well. I prefer the easy to use and simpler 430 but no argument the 460 has more capabilities.
Nice to have both but I can see why a 430 owner may miss some things being in a 460. Brand new never-had-a-430 460 owners will not miss a thing.... LOL....
(Sorry.... way more than 1 sentence.....)
Last edited by Duck05; 07-18-16 at 07:45 PM.