jrmckinley

I agree with you- I had a '96 LS 400, now have an '04 LS 430, and have been looking at '10-'12 460's for a while and driving them often. In a weird way, things are so similar that it almost "dulls" the excitement I would get of switching to a 460. Buttons are placed in exact same spots, the general feel of the drive is similar, etc. Part of me likes the familiarity, but I drove a 2011 yesterday that was the exact same color combo as my '04 and I didn't leave too motivated to make a change. I love the exterior style change but the experience inside the car feels very similar across generations (until you get to '13 and beyond).

I'm looking to stay in the $30k-$35k range so can't afford a '13 right now. If I keep having the itch to drive something different, I may do something drastic and keep my '04 as my work vehicle and add a "fun" car to the garage (Audi S5 would be top choice).

seanl

which is why I ended up skipping the 430 completely, even thought it's a much better value right now than the 460. I felt that the 430 was too similar to my 400, whereas the 15 years between my 400 and 460 was more significant.

Lynzoid

It being the rock, the foundation, the sentinel...
Although my new 10 awd kicks some serious bottom being a LOVELY BEAST as well.

7milesout

$20 a car is HUGE!!!! During my tenor as a design engineer for Toyota, if I had found a way to save $20 per Camry, I would have been bowed to everywhere I went, and had my name shouted from the highest peaks of Japan. I exaggerate of course. But $20 per Camry, at 350,000 Camrys a year is an additional 7 meeeeellion dollars in the bank. Of course the LS is much lower volume, but still.

So if a belt is $20 less expensive ... it's getting a belt. I'm certain the difference is not that much, not at OEM cost levels. Maybe more like $3 difference (which is still sizable).

I'll tell you this much, when I was working at Hyundai/Kia, one goofball engineer (formerly) from Mercedes proposed a cost up of about $15 per vehicle in noise reduction to the headliner. I told him, "dude, this isn't Mercedes ... even Toyota would reject that. This being Hyundai, don't even propose such a thing." But he did, and the Hyundai engineers looked at him like he was smoking crack. He wasn't in my department, or I would have just shut that down.


7milesout

SW17LS

It's true. I remember when the lease was up on the 98 LS we drove the then all new 01 LS430 and I remember we liked it but my dad felt like it was really just basically the same car. Drove the same, felt the same, and he liked the look of the LS400 more so he just bought it out of the lease. He only got the LS430 in 2004 because his company leased it for him and the 400 was almost 170k miles at that point.

If I had an LS430 the only reason I would upgrade to a 460 is for the better technology. From a ride and drive perspective they're very similar. Of course the youngest 430s are 10 years old now, so age in general is a consideration too.

I think another reason why people aren't bowled over by the upgrade is their first LS is their first experience with a car of this caliber. When they upgrade from a 430 to a 460 the difference isn't huge like it was between whatever they had before and the 430 was.

I know it was that way for us with the 430, and it is with me and the 460. I love the car, but it's not awe inspiring to me at this point just because I am so accustomed to cars of this caliber.

The real issue is going to something lesser. I have a new RX right now as a loaner, it has 1000 miles on it. Well equipped. It's nice, I like it...but it feels very insubstantial to me compared to the LS.

Dr. Jekyll

iTrader: (1)

So does anyone else miss the small compartments like the one in the center console and under the front seats besides me?

SW17LS

I don't carry a lot of stuff in my cars, so I don't, but I can see why you would.

jainla

The quiet, smaller size, ease of parking. And the giant headroom. But then it's not gone so I don't really miss it for long.

I have the fans on my LS430 and I still have the compartments. 9 times out of 10 I forget they are there. I would guess that they deleted them because most owners didn't know they existed.

I agree. When I went to the 430 from my diesel it was a huge upgrade. The 460 feels similar in many ways to the 430 so I was kind of on the fence until I had the perfect hybrid cross my path.

The 400 and the 430 have enough parts commonality that I'm not surprised they feel similar. The 460 is mostly a clean sheet design which explains why they feel so different.

They are both great cars, can't wait to see what the 5LS looks like...

valex

What about power? Does 460 feel a lot more powerful than 430? Or not that much?

SW17LS

Not really, but bear in mind mine is an AWD. With the AWD and the 8 speed transmission, a lot of that additional power feel is lost. In my region the last RWD LS460 I drove was in 2006 and I don't remember that experience really. Since AWD has been available nearly all 460s here are AWD.

I would say they feel very similar again in the power department. Its a little lazy around town, but when you get on it it pulls real hard. Same as my 400 and 430 did.

peteyx

Throttle response

jainla

I drove all 3 back to back a couple years ago when I was shopping; the 460L, a 600h and then my 430 home.

I remember thinking the 430 and 460 feel about the same around town; but when you cane it the 460 has more power up top. The UR engine is a little peaky so you have to wind it out, but once you twist the tach past 3000 rpm there's plenty of go; whereas the UZ will feel less powerful at those revs.

The UZ engine has a fatter powerband, but there was less of it so they feel pretty similar around town. Also there's another ~350lbs (especially in the L) in the 460 so it's not a night and day difference. I don't have the 6sp in the 430 so I'm not sure if that makes a difference. The 8sp in theory should keep the engine at full boil more often when asked for.

The 600h was a completely different beast entirely; seamless smooth power with not much feeling of acceleration. The engine revs for a bit then you're going FAST. It was almost like the speedometer was connected to my right foot.

AJT123

The 460 is faster once you wind it out toward redline and can feel the extra 90 hp, but the 4.6 is a somewhat peaky motor (by comparison) and doesn't feel as torquey as the 430 just puttering around town at 2k RPM. That's not to say it lacks torque or anything, but the 460 isn't as waftable. I also felt the 8spd auto was overkill and hunted too much. I've driven both cars thoroughly and much prefer the 4.3 for the way it sounds (the 4.6 doesn't sound like ripping silk like the UZ motors do), the fact that it's noticeably smoother and quieter, and the more accessible low-end torque.

Still, though, the 460 is, well, an LS. So it's still a great, serene driving experience. But when I drove a 460 I did notice these things about the drivetrain. I think they took a step backwards in refinement with the UR.

And please, guys, don't read into this the wrong way. No offense. I just felt like chiming in bc I was considering trading in my 430 for this stunning '11 LS460 but there was nothing that it did better (some things it didn't do as well) than the 430. I was beyond smitten with the looks (silver with the chrome '19s), but the rest of the car didn't feel like any sort of upgrade, other than newer telematics, Nav, etc., which is stuff I don't care about anyway.

Scrutator

Okay, I'll bite:

Miss the seat-position adjustment for the Martin Logan audio. In my LS 430 I was able to select the driver's seat for the optimum soundstage. I am usually alone when driving.

jainla

The chain changes the character quite a bit. It sounds more like a Mercedes V8 now.