Lexus 600hl Hybrid System Failure
06-18-16, 07:32 AM
#1
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Lexus 600hl Hybrid System Failure
I have a 2008 600hl. It showed Hybrid system failure and I took it to the dealer last week. They said that the hybrid system charges well but the issue seems to be 12V battery. They replaced that for $550. I got the car back and drove for 1 day, it stopped again at a major red light. This was a dead stop on Friday 5 pm peak hour traffic. My little daughter was sitting behind and so many cars came close to hitting us which made me mad at Lexus. Luckily I called cops and then they gave protection till it was towed.
All dashboard lights got on and it would show the following:
- Check Hybrid System
- Check Brake System
- Check VSC
My questions are as follows:
- Did the dealer do the proper repair when they changed 12v battery since the same issue happened last week?
- If I understand correctly from the blogs, Check Hybrid System is mainly a cell or module failure. If they at the dealership were able to charge the Hybrid System, does it mean it was working? Their health check showed 75%
- Since the car stopped abruptly at a stop light, if we were hit from behind, does Lexus/dealership have any liability? My major issue was that my daughter sitting behind does not get hurt.
- If I am forced to buy a battery pack, should we but it aftermarket or from the dealer?
Appreciate your help/response.
Regards
RN
All dashboard lights got on and it would show the following:
- Check Hybrid System
- Check Brake System
- Check VSC
My questions are as follows:
- Did the dealer do the proper repair when they changed 12v battery since the same issue happened last week?
- If I understand correctly from the blogs, Check Hybrid System is mainly a cell or module failure. If they at the dealership were able to charge the Hybrid System, does it mean it was working? Their health check showed 75%
- Since the car stopped abruptly at a stop light, if we were hit from behind, does Lexus/dealership have any liability? My major issue was that my daughter sitting behind does not get hurt.
- If I am forced to buy a battery pack, should we but it aftermarket or from the dealer?
Appreciate your help/response.
Regards
RN
06-18-16, 08:02 AM
#2
Pole Position
I really don't know what would cause a vehicle to just stop working abruptly like that, but from I've been reading lately, you're heading for some major repairs with the LS600. You're not going to get anything out of Lexus, seeing how no one was hurt. My advice to you is sell the car, sell it now, sell it fast. Don't be stuck paying $6,000 because something broke in the hybrid system. And that's coming.
I don't understand why Lexus made a LS460 that I AVERAGE 27 mpg in, and then make a complicated LS600 that people average 24 mpg in. And one is a pretty reliable, trouble free vehicle, while the other is retuning repair bills that you'd expect out of a Ferrari. You paid $550 for a 12v car battery replacement? $550?! You can buy these batteries at your average parts store for $110 bucks...and you can install it in five minutes. And even if the dealer wanted to say...well we had to test the battery, starting and charging system...know how long that takes? One minute and twenty seconds, that's how long that takes. And to "test" the hybrid system took them even less.
I don't understand why Lexus made a LS460 that I AVERAGE 27 mpg in, and then make a complicated LS600 that people average 24 mpg in. And one is a pretty reliable, trouble free vehicle, while the other is retuning repair bills that you'd expect out of a Ferrari. You paid $550 for a 12v car battery replacement? $550?! You can buy these batteries at your average parts store for $110 bucks...and you can install it in five minutes. And even if the dealer wanted to say...well we had to test the battery, starting and charging system...know how long that takes? One minute and twenty seconds, that's how long that takes. And to "test" the hybrid system took them even less.
06-18-16, 08:28 AM
#3
Moderator
The 12v battery is in trunk..had to replace mine because it starts car and just lost charge. About $375 through an indy mechanic. As far as the 600..I enjoyed my time with mine but the hybrid battery pack failed on the day of warranty experation and Lexus fought me in covering it. Needless to say I sold my 600 and couldn't be happier. Enjoying my 2012 460L with no hybrid concerns...good luck
06-18-16, 09:11 AM
#4
Instructor
I really don't know what would cause a vehicle to just stop working abruptly like that, but from I've been reading lately, you're heading for some major repairs with the LS600. You're not going to get anything out of Lexus, seeing how no one was hurt. My advice to you is sell the car, sell it now, sell it fast. Don't be stuck paying $6,000 because something broke in the hybrid system. And that's coming.
I don't understand why Lexus made a LS460 that I AVERAGE 27 mpg in, and then make a complicated LS600 that people average 24 mpg in. And one is a pretty reliable, trouble free vehicle, while the other is retuning repair bills that you'd expect out of a Ferrari. You paid $550 for a 12v car battery replacement? $550?! You can buy these batteries at your average parts store for $110 bucks...and you can install it in five minutes. And even if the dealer wanted to say...well we had to test the battery, starting and charging system...know how long that takes? One minute and twenty seconds, that's how long that takes. And to "test" the hybrid system took them even less.
I don't understand why Lexus made a LS460 that I AVERAGE 27 mpg in, and then make a complicated LS600 that people average 24 mpg in. And one is a pretty reliable, trouble free vehicle, while the other is retuning repair bills that you'd expect out of a Ferrari. You paid $550 for a 12v car battery replacement? $550?! You can buy these batteries at your average parts store for $110 bucks...and you can install it in five minutes. And even if the dealer wanted to say...well we had to test the battery, starting and charging system...know how long that takes? One minute and twenty seconds, that's how long that takes. And to "test" the hybrid system took them even less.
06-18-16, 10:32 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
All dashboard lights got on and it would show the following:
- Check Hybrid System
- Check Brake System
- Check VSC
- Check Hybrid System
- Check Brake System
- Check VSC
As for the 550 dollar bill? Highway robbery. As my friend stated, a 100 battery from your local auto parts shop would have achieved the same goal. But that's dealers for ya.
Good luck. Let us know what transpires.
06-18-16, 10:52 AM
#6
Due respect to all here, but a few of these posts don't really get at the OP's questions or help...
The 600, much like the original luxury hybrid (RX400h) and the GS450h, was designed with performance in mind much more so than fuel economy, so let's give that one a rest. On the highway, my 460 was better with mpg; on average, my 600 is actually better, especially considering how I push it in the city.
Along these lines, the hybrid battery pack concerns are no small thing (as CJITTY's unfortunate experience and response from Lexus evidenced). However, let's stop pretending that the 460 is bulletproof and the 600 is an unreliable piece of junk, as that is just simply false. Yes, if the big ticket items fail on a 600 (a few of them), you can be in for a rude awakening. Otherwise, mostly everything else is shared with the 460, and the one-sided and at-times uninformed posts (e.g., regarding the 12V battery - which is not your typical kind) do, quite frankly, get old. My '08 460 ran like a top once all the issues were addressed, and I loved it, but it was hardly the poster child for reliability when I first bought it (religiously maintained and kept, too).
This is crazy, and I also don't understand why the car would shut down like that. I am glad you and your daughter were safe, in the end.
Evidently, the dealer did not fix your problem (unless there was more than one issue to begin with). Indeed, the 12V battery is a more complicated and pricier animal in the 600. You arguably paid a bit too much for it (CJITTY's number is a helpful reference), and it's not clear that it was bad, but on to the bigger question...
What is the dealer telling you at this point? The 75% result gives me pause that it is the battery pack (even though that would have been my initial guess, like others'). If you do need a battery pack, to this day there is no aftermarket option that we know of (and separately, I am not sure if there are indy shops in your area that would tackle the job). Also, even though you may find some videos out there of folks fixing individual cells on a Prius' battery pack, my understanding is that the 600's cells are attached differently (riveted), so "servicing" the pack is not an option either. I would cross that bridge when I get to it.
I don't know your mileage or other particulars on your vehicle, but if you got to that point, I would certainly get in touch with Lexus, and they may or may not help - fully or partially. The battery pack costs what it costs (and I ***think*** I may have seen it online as "low" as a hair below $4k - will share if I find again), and then there's labor.
My 2 cents, FWIW... Please do update us on what the dealer says.
The 600, much like the original luxury hybrid (RX400h) and the GS450h, was designed with performance in mind much more so than fuel economy, so let's give that one a rest. On the highway, my 460 was better with mpg; on average, my 600 is actually better, especially considering how I push it in the city.
Along these lines, the hybrid battery pack concerns are no small thing (as CJITTY's unfortunate experience and response from Lexus evidenced). However, let's stop pretending that the 460 is bulletproof and the 600 is an unreliable piece of junk, as that is just simply false. Yes, if the big ticket items fail on a 600 (a few of them), you can be in for a rude awakening. Otherwise, mostly everything else is shared with the 460, and the one-sided and at-times uninformed posts (e.g., regarding the 12V battery - which is not your typical kind) do, quite frankly, get old. My '08 460 ran like a top once all the issues were addressed, and I loved it, but it was hardly the poster child for reliability when I first bought it (religiously maintained and kept, too).
I have a 2008 600hl. It showed Hybrid system failure and I took it to the dealer last week. They said that the hybrid system charges well but the issue seems to be 12V battery. They replaced that for $550. I got the car back and drove for 1 day, it stopped again at a major red light. This was a dead stop on Friday 5 pm peak hour traffic. My little daughter was sitting behind and so many cars came close to hitting us which made me mad at Lexus. Luckily I called cops and then they gave protection till it was towed.
All dashboard lights got on and it would show the following:
- Check Hybrid System
- Check Brake System
- Check VSC
My questions are as follows:
- Did the dealer do the proper repair when they changed 12v battery since the same issue happened last week?
- If I understand correctly from the blogs, Check Hybrid System is mainly a cell or module failure. If they at the dealership were able to charge the Hybrid System, does it mean it was working? Their health check showed 75%
- Since the car stopped abruptly at a stop light, if we were hit from behind, does Lexus/dealership have any liability? My major issue was that my daughter sitting behind does not get hurt.
- If I am forced to buy a battery pack, should we but it aftermarket or from the dealer?
Appreciate your help/response.
Regards
RN
All dashboard lights got on and it would show the following:
- Check Hybrid System
- Check Brake System
- Check VSC
My questions are as follows:
- Did the dealer do the proper repair when they changed 12v battery since the same issue happened last week?
- If I understand correctly from the blogs, Check Hybrid System is mainly a cell or module failure. If they at the dealership were able to charge the Hybrid System, does it mean it was working? Their health check showed 75%
- Since the car stopped abruptly at a stop light, if we were hit from behind, does Lexus/dealership have any liability? My major issue was that my daughter sitting behind does not get hurt.
- If I am forced to buy a battery pack, should we but it aftermarket or from the dealer?
Appreciate your help/response.
Regards
RN
Evidently, the dealer did not fix your problem (unless there was more than one issue to begin with). Indeed, the 12V battery is a more complicated and pricier animal in the 600. You arguably paid a bit too much for it (CJITTY's number is a helpful reference), and it's not clear that it was bad, but on to the bigger question...
What is the dealer telling you at this point? The 75% result gives me pause that it is the battery pack (even though that would have been my initial guess, like others'). If you do need a battery pack, to this day there is no aftermarket option that we know of (and separately, I am not sure if there are indy shops in your area that would tackle the job). Also, even though you may find some videos out there of folks fixing individual cells on a Prius' battery pack, my understanding is that the 600's cells are attached differently (riveted), so "servicing" the pack is not an option either. I would cross that bridge when I get to it.
I don't know your mileage or other particulars on your vehicle, but if you got to that point, I would certainly get in touch with Lexus, and they may or may not help - fully or partially. The battery pack costs what it costs (and I ***think*** I may have seen it online as "low" as a hair below $4k - will share if I find again), and then there's labor.
My 2 cents, FWIW... Please do update us on what the dealer says.
Last edited by caha14; 06-18-16 at 11:02 AM.
06-18-16, 12:35 PM
#7
Just to add another post not helping with OP's problem. I always thought that the hybrid was created more to appear "green" while avoiding congestion taxes and added sales taxes that hybrid vehicles could take advantage of in London, Europe, and the US. That along with the added power of the electric motor.
Trending Topics
06-18-16, 12:45 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
06-18-16, 12:53 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
06-18-16, 12:56 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
I don't drive 100 kph though. 120-140 is more my pace and I get 26-28.
To the OP, Figure out what it'd cost you to get out of this vehicle and compare it to what the repair will cost. Take into account that buying another vehicle will likely have it's own set of issues to hammer out as well.
To the OP, Figure out what it'd cost you to get out of this vehicle and compare it to what the repair will cost. Take into account that buying another vehicle will likely have it's own set of issues to hammer out as well.
06-18-16, 01:50 PM
#11
Pole Position
Due respect to all here, but a few of these posts don't really get at the OP's questions or help...
The 600, much like the original luxury hybrid (RX400h) and the GS450h, was designed with performance in mind much more so than fuel economy, so let's give that one a rest. On the highway, my 460 was better with mpg; on average, my 600 is actually better, especially considering how I push it in the city.
Along these lines, the hybrid battery pack concerns are no small thing (as CJITTY's unfortunate experience and response from Lexus evidenced). However, let's stop pretending that the 460 is bulletproof and the 600 is an unreliable piece of junk, as that is just simply false. Yes, if the big ticket items fail on a 600 (a few of them), you can be in for a rude awakening. Otherwise, mostly everything else is shared with the 460, and the one-sided and at-times uninformed posts (e.g., regarding the 12V battery - which is not your typical kind) do, quite frankly, get old. My '08 460 ran like a top once all the issues were addressed, and I loved it, but it was hardly the poster child for reliability when I first bought it (religiously maintained and kept, too).
This is crazy, and I also don't understand why the car would shut down like that. I am glad you and your daughter were safe, in the end.
Evidently, the dealer did not fix your problem (unless there was more than one issue to begin with). Indeed, the 12V battery is a more complicated and pricier animal in the 600. You arguably paid a bit too much for it (CJITTY's number is a helpful reference), and it's not clear that it was bad, but on to the bigger question...
What is the dealer telling you at this point? The 75% result gives me pause that it is the battery pack (even though that would have been my initial guess, like others'). If you do need a battery pack, to this day there is no aftermarket option that we know of (and separately, I am not sure if there are indy shops in your area that would tackle the job). Also, even though you may find some videos out there of folks fixing individual cells on a Prius' battery pack, my understanding is that the 600's cells are attached differently (riveted), so "servicing" the pack is not an option either. I would cross that bridge when I get to it.
I don't know your mileage or other particulars on your vehicle, but if you got to that point, I would certainly get in touch with Lexus, and they may or may not help - fully or partially. The battery pack costs what it costs (and I ***think*** I may have seen it online as "low" as a hair below $4k - will share if I find again), and then there's labor.
My 2 cents, FWIW... Please do update us on what the dealer says.
The 600, much like the original luxury hybrid (RX400h) and the GS450h, was designed with performance in mind much more so than fuel economy, so let's give that one a rest. On the highway, my 460 was better with mpg; on average, my 600 is actually better, especially considering how I push it in the city.
Along these lines, the hybrid battery pack concerns are no small thing (as CJITTY's unfortunate experience and response from Lexus evidenced). However, let's stop pretending that the 460 is bulletproof and the 600 is an unreliable piece of junk, as that is just simply false. Yes, if the big ticket items fail on a 600 (a few of them), you can be in for a rude awakening. Otherwise, mostly everything else is shared with the 460, and the one-sided and at-times uninformed posts (e.g., regarding the 12V battery - which is not your typical kind) do, quite frankly, get old. My '08 460 ran like a top once all the issues were addressed, and I loved it, but it was hardly the poster child for reliability when I first bought it (religiously maintained and kept, too).
This is crazy, and I also don't understand why the car would shut down like that. I am glad you and your daughter were safe, in the end.
Evidently, the dealer did not fix your problem (unless there was more than one issue to begin with). Indeed, the 12V battery is a more complicated and pricier animal in the 600. You arguably paid a bit too much for it (CJITTY's number is a helpful reference), and it's not clear that it was bad, but on to the bigger question...
What is the dealer telling you at this point? The 75% result gives me pause that it is the battery pack (even though that would have been my initial guess, like others'). If you do need a battery pack, to this day there is no aftermarket option that we know of (and separately, I am not sure if there are indy shops in your area that would tackle the job). Also, even though you may find some videos out there of folks fixing individual cells on a Prius' battery pack, my understanding is that the 600's cells are attached differently (riveted), so "servicing" the pack is not an option either. I would cross that bridge when I get to it.
I don't know your mileage or other particulars on your vehicle, but if you got to that point, I would certainly get in touch with Lexus, and they may or may not help - fully or partially. The battery pack costs what it costs (and I ***think*** I may have seen it online as "low" as a hair below $4k - will share if I find again), and then there's labor.
My 2 cents, FWIW... Please do update us on what the dealer says.
It's a 12V lead acid battery. It is in the trunk. You open the trunk and remove a cover. It's actually easier than replacing the one under the hood. The battery has a vent tube (like any battery not found under the hood), this is so when the battery vents, the fumes don't go inside the interior. When it's in the engine compartment there is no need for that "feature". And it has a thermistor wedged onto the top of the battery to read temp, that's it. It's a Panasonic S75D31L. You can buy replacement batteries online for a little over $110 bucks. It's not magic, it's not more complicated...it's like any other 12v battery mounted in an interior or trunk.
And sadly I can guarantee that probably 50% of interior and trunk batteries that are replaced are driving around without their vent tubes even hooked up (many of which are under people's rear seats). And the world keeps humming along just fine.
06-18-16, 02:21 PM
#12
So in your 8 paragraphs could you share how your post was more informative or helped the OP better than everyone else, with all due respect. Aside from you saying the 12V battery was not typical and "more complicated"...and that's the reason why it's A OK to be charged over $500 dollars to replace it.
I shall also keep this to fewer paragraphs...
I never said it was A-ok to pay over $500 - just re-read my post. My only point is that given the thermistor, which had been discussed elsewhere at some point (when Jitty was replacing his, I believe), a dealer-purchased battery (at the time) seemed like the easier choice: pricier than a $100ish battery but again, not $500, and also saving unnecessary future "potential issues" (specifically, dealer absurdly blaming other problems on non-OE battery, etc., "because it's a 600")...
Separately, I did attempt to address his questions about aftermarket replacement vs. dealers, cost and some of the other more obvious ones. Point is that telling someone who's concerned that (1) he was taken to the cleaners and (2) that he should dump the car immediately (when he doesn't even know what is wrong) isn't what any of us would want for advice at this specific stage.
Last edited by caha14; 06-18-16 at 02:30 PM.
06-18-16, 04:00 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
It's a 12V lead acid battery. It is in the trunk. You open the trunk and remove a cover. It's actually easier than replacing the one under the hood. The battery has a vent tube (like any battery not found under the hood), this is so when the battery vents, the fumes don't go inside the interior. When it's in the engine compartment there is no need for that "feature". And it has a thermistor wedged onto the top of the battery to read temp, that's it. It's a Panasonic S75D31L. You can buy replacement batteries online for a little over $110 bucks. It's not magic, it's not more complicated...it's like any other 12v battery mounted in an interior or trunk. .
Thanks
06-18-16, 05:40 PM
#14
http://www.partswebsite.com/oemlexus...32594&fl_id=41
06-18-16, 05:59 PM
#15
Pole Position
Doublebase, I normally find your posts very helpful and informative (e.g., control arms), and so, I am not going to get into a pi**ing contest with you on here. That was never my intention.
I shall also keep this to fewer paragraphs...
I never said it was A-ok to pay over $500 - just re-read my post. My only point is that given the thermistor, which had been discussed elsewhere at some point (when Jitty was replacing his, I believe), a dealer-purchased battery (at the time) seemed like the easier choice: pricier than a $100ish battery but again, not $500, and also saving unnecessary future "potential issues" (specifically, dealer absurdly blaming other problems on non-OE battery, etc., "because it's a 600")...
Separately, I did attempt to address his questions about aftermarket replacement vs. dealers, cost and some of the other more obvious ones. Point is that telling someone who's concerned that (1) he was taken to the cleaners and (2) that he should dump the car immediately (when he doesn't even know what is wrong) isn't what any of us would want for advice at this specific stage.
I shall also keep this to fewer paragraphs...
I never said it was A-ok to pay over $500 - just re-read my post. My only point is that given the thermistor, which had been discussed elsewhere at some point (when Jitty was replacing his, I believe), a dealer-purchased battery (at the time) seemed like the easier choice: pricier than a $100ish battery but again, not $500, and also saving unnecessary future "potential issues" (specifically, dealer absurdly blaming other problems on non-OE battery, etc., "because it's a 600")...
Separately, I did attempt to address his questions about aftermarket replacement vs. dealers, cost and some of the other more obvious ones. Point is that telling someone who's concerned that (1) he was taken to the cleaners and (2) that he should dump the car immediately (when he doesn't even know what is wrong) isn't what any of us would want for advice at this specific stage.
I do like the way those LS600's look...had one pass me the other day on rt 93. The thing was huge...looked like a monster. Very nice. But my initial thought with the OP is to quit while you're ahead, I certainly could be wrong. These things may be as reliable as a Prius, but that's not what's being reported.
And I never meant to put the car down, perhaps I did...and I also didn't mean to compare it to the LS460 (but I did). Sorry. As for the base model 460, mine has been more reliable than my Honda Accord and I've gotten better gas mileage as well. Kind of crazy (knock on wood).
