How many miles is too many for LS600HL
05-27-16, 10:26 AM
#31
To OP...
Beyond what others have already said, besides the hybrid battery pack (no small thing, of course), the much-maligned hydrocarbon bypass valve (which looks like it could be cheaper to fix than the full exhaust replacement that dealers are doing) and possibly the inverter, a 600 is subject to no more "known issues" than an LS460. Air suspension would be the only added item (also present in most fully-loaded LS460L of the 2007-08 vintage). The CVT, the only other majorly different item, is supposed to be built like a workhorse, according to most accounts.
The trunk is indeed much smaller, unless you're looking at a 2010+, in which case the trunk, while still smaller, is not much smaller than the trunk of my 2008 LS460L with Rear AC was. Battery packaging for 2010+ 600s is a bit tighter, resulting in extra trunk space. Also, depending on VIN, control arms and air struts may be the revised kind (where applicable).
Lastly, regarding fuel economy, in the city it is marginally better on the 600. On the highway, the 460 is king. In the end, you don't really want a 600 for mpg; you would arguably want it for all else: the few extra items, the torquey drivetrain and the extra quietness and smoothness (hard to believe - but it takes 460 awesomeness and kicks it up another notch). If you look at 0-60 times, you will see the 600 is comparable to the 460, but that's IMHO the most misleading performance statistic to compare these two specific cars. Take a 460 and open it up on the highway, then do the same with a 600, and you'll see
.
The 600 even smells differently, my guess is that it's the leather dashboard, as the seats are supposed to be the same semi-aniline leather on loaded 460/460L units.
R Z... I hear you on the smile driving the 460. It is a phenomenal vehicle. The smile just gets a few millimeters bigger
I should also comment that the handles that have wood are the "oh $h-t" handles, not the door handles.
Beyond what others have already said, besides the hybrid battery pack (no small thing, of course), the much-maligned hydrocarbon bypass valve (which looks like it could be cheaper to fix than the full exhaust replacement that dealers are doing) and possibly the inverter, a 600 is subject to no more "known issues" than an LS460. Air suspension would be the only added item (also present in most fully-loaded LS460L of the 2007-08 vintage). The CVT, the only other majorly different item, is supposed to be built like a workhorse, according to most accounts.
The trunk is indeed much smaller, unless you're looking at a 2010+, in which case the trunk, while still smaller, is not much smaller than the trunk of my 2008 LS460L with Rear AC was. Battery packaging for 2010+ 600s is a bit tighter, resulting in extra trunk space. Also, depending on VIN, control arms and air struts may be the revised kind (where applicable).
Lastly, regarding fuel economy, in the city it is marginally better on the 600. On the highway, the 460 is king. In the end, you don't really want a 600 for mpg; you would arguably want it for all else: the few extra items, the torquey drivetrain and the extra quietness and smoothness (hard to believe - but it takes 460 awesomeness and kicks it up another notch). If you look at 0-60 times, you will see the 600 is comparable to the 460, but that's IMHO the most misleading performance statistic to compare these two specific cars. Take a 460 and open it up on the highway, then do the same with a 600, and you'll see
.The 600 even smells differently, my guess is that it's the leather dashboard, as the seats are supposed to be the same semi-aniline leather on loaded 460/460L units.
R Z... I hear you on the smile driving the 460. It is a phenomenal vehicle. The smile just gets a few millimeters bigger
I should also comment that the handles that have wood are the "oh $h-t" handles, not the door handles.
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lexus600hl (07-04-17)
05-27-16, 05:42 PM
#32
Driver
Thread Starter
I have been considering this one..
https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/19495375
My worry was with this is two things...there is a gap of service for almost 4 years and then there was a worry of a failing battery but it was okay and then no more service recorded.
I have been looking at warranties, and one said they would cover the inverter assembly...is that the same as the inverter?
05-27-16, 05:44 PM
#33
Driver
Thread Starter
Did you consider a RX450 and an LS460. A high mileage 460 and a RX450 may not be a bad idea. Further, you could lower the price point on a 460 by sourcing one without the nav. It was a necessity for me before I actually got it...now I feel a custom head unit would have been a bit cooler and easier to upgrade if I keep the car. Plus the hvac controls are in the nav display...
05-27-16, 05:47 PM
#34
Driver
Thread Starter
To OP...
Beyond what others have already said, besides the hybrid battery pack (no small thing, of course), the much-maligned hydrocarbon bypass valve (which looks like it could be cheaper to fix than the full exhaust replacement that dealers are doing) and possibly the inverter, a 600 is subject to no more "known issues" than an LS460. Air suspension would be the only added item (also present in most fully-loaded LS460L of the 2007-08 vintage). The CVT, the only other majorly different item, is supposed to be built like a workhorse, according to most accounts.
The trunk is indeed much smaller, unless you're looking at a 2010+, in which case the trunk, while still smaller, is not much smaller than the trunk of my 2008 LS460L with Rear AC was. Battery packaging for 2010+ 600s is a bit tighter, resulting in extra trunk space. Also, depending on VIN, control arms and air struts may be the revised kind (where applicable).
Lastly, regarding fuel economy, in the city it is marginally better on the 600. On the highway, the 460 is king. In the end, you don't really want a 600 for mpg; you would arguably want it for all else: the few extra items, the torquey drivetrain and the extra quietness and smoothness (hard to believe - but it takes 460 awesomeness and kicks it up another notch). If you look at 0-60 times, you will see the 600 is comparable to the 460, but that's IMHO the most misleading performance statistic to compare these two specific cars. Take a 460 and open it up on the highway, then do the same with a 600, and you'll see.
The 600 even smells differently, my guess is that it's the leather dashboard, as the seats are supposed to be the same semi-aniline leather on loaded 460/460L units.
R Z... I hear you on the smile driving the 460. It is a phenomenal vehicle. The smile just gets a few millimeters bigger
I should also comment that the handles that have wood are the "oh $h-t" handles, not the door handles.
Beyond what others have already said, besides the hybrid battery pack (no small thing, of course), the much-maligned hydrocarbon bypass valve (which looks like it could be cheaper to fix than the full exhaust replacement that dealers are doing) and possibly the inverter, a 600 is subject to no more "known issues" than an LS460. Air suspension would be the only added item (also present in most fully-loaded LS460L of the 2007-08 vintage). The CVT, the only other majorly different item, is supposed to be built like a workhorse, according to most accounts.
The trunk is indeed much smaller, unless you're looking at a 2010+, in which case the trunk, while still smaller, is not much smaller than the trunk of my 2008 LS460L with Rear AC was. Battery packaging for 2010+ 600s is a bit tighter, resulting in extra trunk space. Also, depending on VIN, control arms and air struts may be the revised kind (where applicable).
Lastly, regarding fuel economy, in the city it is marginally better on the 600. On the highway, the 460 is king. In the end, you don't really want a 600 for mpg; you would arguably want it for all else: the few extra items, the torquey drivetrain and the extra quietness and smoothness (hard to believe - but it takes 460 awesomeness and kicks it up another notch). If you look at 0-60 times, you will see the 600 is comparable to the 460, but that's IMHO the most misleading performance statistic to compare these two specific cars. Take a 460 and open it up on the highway, then do the same with a 600, and you'll see
.The 600 even smells differently, my guess is that it's the leather dashboard, as the seats are supposed to be the same semi-aniline leather on loaded 460/460L units.
R Z... I hear you on the smile driving the 460. It is a phenomenal vehicle. The smile just gets a few millimeters bigger
I should also comment that the handles that have wood are the "oh $h-t" handles, not the door handles.
05-27-16, 08:10 PM
#35
I was considering a few with 151k or 181k miles but thinking that the sellers still want 17k I was not certain
I have been considering this one..
https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/19495375
My worry was with this is two things...there is a gap of service for almost 4 years and then there was a worry of a failing battery but it was okay and then no more service recorded.
I have been looking at warranties, and one said they would cover the inverter assembly...is that the same as the inverter?
I have been considering this one..
https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/19495375
My worry was with this is two things...there is a gap of service for almost 4 years and then there was a worry of a failing battery but it was okay and then no more service recorded.
I have been looking at warranties, and one said they would cover the inverter assembly...is that the same as the inverter?
Last edited by hfahmy; 05-27-16 at 08:15 PM.
05-29-16, 12:20 PM
#36
Pole Position
I have owned three LS 600 Hls (all 2008 launch editions). I have sold 2 and still have one with about 100,000 miles.
First, the ls 600 is an amazing car.. quite superior to the ls 460 (I had owned a 2007 LS 460L, which I bought new, in 2007 but kept only for about 30k miles)... and I still own a 2011 ls 460l - with about 65k miles on it..
The ls460L is a great car... reasonably trouble free.. except that you should avoid air suspension and know how to have the control arms repaired outside the lexus dealership. The mark levinson amp failed for all of my cars, except the 2011 460l. That is not too bad.. around $900 I think.
I have owned many of the Lexus cars, over the years.. The only car I am afraid of owning, outside the warranty, is the LS 600hl. If it is not a CPO, and if you are budget concious, just stay away from it (as you should from the S550 or the BMW 740i). One problem is its exhaust system.. around $7000 to $9000 if your check engine light comes on. there is a thread on that.. and my current car had that problem. next problem is the hybrid battery.. I believe they have 8 or 10 year warranty.. After that.. what? $7000?
The ls 600 is a great car but I would not own one, if it is not CPO.
In generaly, luxury cars have simply become ridiculously expensive to maintain. A $9000 repair bill for hydrocarbon switch is a simply ridiculous expense! I saw that part.. There is no reason Lexus could not have ensured that it would last a lifetime.. it is simply a vacuum based mechanical baffle! All they had to do, is put two bearings (or better bearings), instead of bushes and no repairs would have been needed!
I have not owned mercedes or bmw for more than 60k miles.. hence I don't know how reliable they are.. But upto 60k, my s class was more reliable than my LS and my current 2013 BMW 535 with 45k miles never needed a repair.. and they even replaced the brakes for free! My 2013 jaguar xjl, with 33k miles, also has never needed a repair, other than oil change and wheel alignment. Lexus is not the only game in town, for reliability..
Within your budget, try buying a CPO car of any of the luxury brands and avoid the ls 600!
As others wrote, mpg, is the wrong reason to buy a 600.. buy it only if you feel that you would appreciate it for the amazing car that it is!
The price for the 113000 mile car that you mentioned is pretty good..
One thing about the hydrocarbon switch problem - you don't need to get it fixed, if you can live with check engine light being on, all the time!
My first LS400 (i bought it in 1989) lasted 245000 miles without engine or transmission trouble.. but it has many other troubles, including suspension!
First, the ls 600 is an amazing car.. quite superior to the ls 460 (I had owned a 2007 LS 460L, which I bought new, in 2007 but kept only for about 30k miles)... and I still own a 2011 ls 460l - with about 65k miles on it..
The ls460L is a great car... reasonably trouble free.. except that you should avoid air suspension and know how to have the control arms repaired outside the lexus dealership. The mark levinson amp failed for all of my cars, except the 2011 460l. That is not too bad.. around $900 I think.
I have owned many of the Lexus cars, over the years.. The only car I am afraid of owning, outside the warranty, is the LS 600hl. If it is not a CPO, and if you are budget concious, just stay away from it (as you should from the S550 or the BMW 740i). One problem is its exhaust system.. around $7000 to $9000 if your check engine light comes on. there is a thread on that.. and my current car had that problem. next problem is the hybrid battery.. I believe they have 8 or 10 year warranty.. After that.. what? $7000?
The ls 600 is a great car but I would not own one, if it is not CPO.
In generaly, luxury cars have simply become ridiculously expensive to maintain. A $9000 repair bill for hydrocarbon switch is a simply ridiculous expense! I saw that part.. There is no reason Lexus could not have ensured that it would last a lifetime.. it is simply a vacuum based mechanical baffle! All they had to do, is put two bearings (or better bearings), instead of bushes and no repairs would have been needed!
I have not owned mercedes or bmw for more than 60k miles.. hence I don't know how reliable they are.. But upto 60k, my s class was more reliable than my LS and my current 2013 BMW 535 with 45k miles never needed a repair.. and they even replaced the brakes for free! My 2013 jaguar xjl, with 33k miles, also has never needed a repair, other than oil change and wheel alignment. Lexus is not the only game in town, for reliability..
Within your budget, try buying a CPO car of any of the luxury brands and avoid the ls 600!
As others wrote, mpg, is the wrong reason to buy a 600.. buy it only if you feel that you would appreciate it for the amazing car that it is!
The price for the 113000 mile car that you mentioned is pretty good..
One thing about the hydrocarbon switch problem - you don't need to get it fixed, if you can live with check engine light being on, all the time!
My first LS400 (i bought it in 1989) lasted 245000 miles without engine or transmission trouble.. but it has many other troubles, including suspension!
Last edited by lexus600hl; 05-29-16 at 12:30 PM.
05-29-16, 04:19 PM
#37
I have owned three LS 600 Hls (all 2008 launch editions). I have sold 2 and still have one with about 100,000 miles.
First, the ls 600 is an amazing car.. quite superior to the ls 460 (I had owned a 2007 LS 460L, which I bought new, in 2007 but kept only for about 30k miles)... and I still own a 2011 ls 460l - with about 65k miles on it..
The ls460L is a great car... reasonably trouble free.. except that you should avoid air suspension and know how to have the control arms repaired outside the lexus dealership. The mark levinson amp failed for all of my cars, except the 2011 460l. That is not too bad.. around $900 I think.
I have owned many of the Lexus cars, over the years.. The only car I am afraid of owning, outside the warranty, is the LS 600hl. If it is not a CPO, and if you are budget concious, just stay away from it (as you should from the S550 or the BMW 740i). One problem is its exhaust system.. around $7000 to $9000 if your check engine light comes on. there is a thread on that.. and my current car had that problem. next problem is the hybrid battery.. I believe they have 8 or 10 year warranty.. After that.. what? $7000?
The ls 600 is a great car but I would not own one, if it is not CPO.
In generaly, luxury cars have simply become ridiculously expensive to maintain. A $9000 repair bill for hydrocarbon switch is a simply ridiculous expense! I saw that part.. There is no reason Lexus could not have ensured that it would last a lifetime.. it is simply a vacuum based mechanical baffle! All they had to do, is put two bearings (or better bearings), instead of bushes and no repairs would have been needed!
I have not owned mercedes or bmw for more than 60k miles.. hence I don't know how reliable they are.. But upto 60k, my s class was more reliable than my LS and my current 2013 BMW 535 with 45k miles never needed a repair.. and they even replaced the brakes for free! My 2013 jaguar xjl, with 33k miles, also has never needed a repair, other than oil change and wheel alignment. Lexus is not the only game in town, for reliability..
Within your budget, try buying a CPO car of any of the luxury brands and avoid the ls 600!
As others wrote, mpg, is the wrong reason to buy a 600.. buy it only if you feel that you would appreciate it for the amazing car that it is!
The price for the 113000 mile car that you mentioned is pretty good..
One thing about the hydrocarbon switch problem - you don't need to get it fixed, if you can live with check engine light being on, all the time!
My first LS400 (i bought it in 1989) lasted 245000 miles without engine or transmission trouble.. but it has many other troubles, including suspension!
First, the ls 600 is an amazing car.. quite superior to the ls 460 (I had owned a 2007 LS 460L, which I bought new, in 2007 but kept only for about 30k miles)... and I still own a 2011 ls 460l - with about 65k miles on it..
The ls460L is a great car... reasonably trouble free.. except that you should avoid air suspension and know how to have the control arms repaired outside the lexus dealership. The mark levinson amp failed for all of my cars, except the 2011 460l. That is not too bad.. around $900 I think.
I have owned many of the Lexus cars, over the years.. The only car I am afraid of owning, outside the warranty, is the LS 600hl. If it is not a CPO, and if you are budget concious, just stay away from it (as you should from the S550 or the BMW 740i). One problem is its exhaust system.. around $7000 to $9000 if your check engine light comes on. there is a thread on that.. and my current car had that problem. next problem is the hybrid battery.. I believe they have 8 or 10 year warranty.. After that.. what? $7000?
The ls 600 is a great car but I would not own one, if it is not CPO.
In generaly, luxury cars have simply become ridiculously expensive to maintain. A $9000 repair bill for hydrocarbon switch is a simply ridiculous expense! I saw that part.. There is no reason Lexus could not have ensured that it would last a lifetime.. it is simply a vacuum based mechanical baffle! All they had to do, is put two bearings (or better bearings), instead of bushes and no repairs would have been needed!
I have not owned mercedes or bmw for more than 60k miles.. hence I don't know how reliable they are.. But upto 60k, my s class was more reliable than my LS and my current 2013 BMW 535 with 45k miles never needed a repair.. and they even replaced the brakes for free! My 2013 jaguar xjl, with 33k miles, also has never needed a repair, other than oil change and wheel alignment. Lexus is not the only game in town, for reliability..
Within your budget, try buying a CPO car of any of the luxury brands and avoid the ls 600!
As others wrote, mpg, is the wrong reason to buy a 600.. buy it only if you feel that you would appreciate it for the amazing car that it is!
The price for the 113000 mile car that you mentioned is pretty good..
One thing about the hydrocarbon switch problem - you don't need to get it fixed, if you can live with check engine light being on, all the time!
My first LS400 (i bought it in 1989) lasted 245000 miles without engine or transmission trouble.. but it has many other troubles, including suspension!
05-30-16, 06:25 AM
#38
Pole Position
Good to know you owned a low mileage MB, BMW and Jaguar and that never needed repair,and more reliable than your Lexus. I can't say that being a former MB and BMW owner. The 600h is a remarkable automobile and I would love to own one but the issues you mentioned above is why I probably want.
The price for the car you mentioned seems like a good deal - assuming carfax checks out.. If you don't mind the check engine light being on, you can probably skip replacing the hydrocarbon valve system. The mark levinson amp issue is $900 (you can check its service history - perhaps they have already changed it?). The biggest cost would be the hybrid battery. I don't know how much that would cost and how long that would last. In addition, the small starting battery for the hybrid is different, because it has a thermister - around $450.. There is a separate thread, which shows how you can install a normal $100 battery, while prying out the thermister from the old battery.
There is a separate thread for the other major problem - the control arms and that also is not too expensive..
Bottom line: If you enjoy driving one of the most refined cars, the 600 really is an amazing car! It offers a unique experience.. superior, but only slightly, to the LS 460L. If you have never driven the 600, you will enjoy the ls 460 just fine!
ps: If you like European and non cushiony ride, you might wish to consider a 2011 Jaguar XJL, with extended warranty ($3500 for 6 year 100k miles) - probably in the mid 30s I would expect. My personal preference is the Jaguar XJL. S550 also is as good as the ls 600, but in a different way and mercedes is offering 3 year unlimited mileage CPO.. also a good deal.
Last edited by lexus600hl; 05-30-16 at 06:35 AM.
05-30-16, 11:43 AM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Being the former owner of German marques (a "flagship" 7 Series and an X5 with a 4.4 V8), I can be rest assured that my 08 Lexus LS and '12 CT200H will be far more reliable than the BMW's. Google "7 series oil burning", "7 series oil leaks", 7 series transmission leaks" 7 series emissions failure", "7 series secondary air pump", '7 series blue smoke", X5 oil leaks"........I could go on, but there's only so much webspace to use up. BMW does not stand behind their products WHATSOEVER - even with these well-documented issues with engines burning oil at a qt every couple of weeks (mine at 50k miles). My LS with 110k miles has needed a battery and a water pump. No ML amp failure, no control arms, Nada. Just for fun, go to Bimmerfest forums and try to find two consecutive posts that DON'T have a bad news story of something that has failed or broken.
Course....I've now jinxed myself........
Course....I've now jinxed myself........
Last edited by roadfrog; 05-30-16 at 11:50 AM.
05-30-16, 01:16 PM
#40
Pole Position
Being the former owner of German marques (a "flagship" 7 Series and an X5 with a 4.4 V8), I can be rest assured that my 08 Lexus LS and '12 CT200H will be far more reliable than the BMW's. Google "7 series oil burning", "7 series oil leaks", 7 series transmission leaks" 7 series emissions failure", "7 series secondary air pump", '7 series blue smoke", X5 oil leaks"........I could go on, but there's only so much webspace to use up. BMW does not stand behind their products WHATSOEVER - even with these well-documented issues with engines burning oil at a qt every couple of weeks (mine at 50k miles). My LS with 110k miles has needed a battery and a water pump. No ML amp failure, no control arms, Nada. Just for fun, go to Bimmerfest forums and try to find two consecutive posts that DON'T have a bad news story of something that has failed or broken. .
05-30-16, 02:47 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
That IS250 is an 08 with about 70k miles now and the only issue he has had on it, is a thermostat. LOL.
Last edited by roadfrog; 05-30-16 at 02:51 PM.
05-30-16, 05:30 PM
#42
Pole Position
Indeed, but it's not just the E65's and up, it's also the X5's (E53) and 5 series and 3 series. It boggles the mind! Scary, scary stuff. Which is why the general consensus is not to own a Beemer without a warranty or outside of a lease. My work partners 3 series was a nightmare as well, and in the shop at least once every couple of months (mostly cooling system and electrical), and he had les than 60k miles on it when he traded it in for a used IS250. That IS250 is an 08 with about 70k miles now and the only issue he has had on it, is a thermostat. LOL.
That IS250 is an 08 with about 70k miles now and the only issue he has had on it, is a thermostat. LOL.It's been a great car, I'm at 120,000 miles and all I've done outside of routine maintenance is...
Replaced all engine and transmission mounts
Replaced power steering rack
Replaced valve body in transmission
Replaced torque converter (the transmission is making some noise now, it may need to be replaced)
Replaced all ball joints and tie rods
My heated seats no longer work
My arm rest is wrinkled
My soft close doors only work once in a while
Cam seals x2
Axle seals
I'm getting a weird vibration when accelerating (rear end?)
Other than that the car has been great! I'll bet I'll make it to 200,000 miles easily.
I'm dead serious^^^this is a carbon copy of 99% of the posts on a high mileage S Class thread (years 07-2012ish). And they're all so damn happy! Could you imagine that here? Here it's like...I had to replace my control arms at 115,000 miles. All those guys over there have replaced all their suspension bushings by 70,000 miles and most of them are on their second transmissions by 100,000 miles. It's slightly insane.
And then they all jump in encouraging one another...that's awesome man...that's not bad at all...these are reliable cars...you'll get to 150,000 miles easy.
Last edited by Doublebase; 05-30-16 at 05:33 PM.
05-31-16, 12:58 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
LOL. Yep, I know. The F08 and E65 threads are similar. One guy wrote in asking the members for their opinion on the purchase of a CPO'd 7 series. The responses were, "just watch for....."(enter laundry list here), and then summize the replay with, "other than that, they're great vehicles, you'll love it". LOL. Then, I'd chime in with my horror story and finalize with, "so I bought a Lexus". I still go back to the forums there and catch up with folks. Many finally had enough and moved on, others, are gluttons for punishment and "won't drive Jap crap", or "German or nothing". I still to this day receive messages and emails from guys at Bimmerfest asking for my help with their cars.
05-31-16, 04:35 PM
#45
Lexus reliability is often compared on European auto forums.