Control Arm Quote: $6,000
05-21-16, 01:14 PM
#16
Advanced
05-21-16, 02:29 PM
#17
Well here's the problem...they're lasting to 70,000-100,000 miles. I understand some people have replaced them sooner, I understand some have replaced them later, but they are failing at a rate that isn't all that far out of the realm of control arm failure. The thing that is out of the realm is price. Most cars have two control arms up front (a lower one on each side) - the cost for most of those parts are around $150-$300 per control arm.
The problem with the LS is that there's 8 of them. Another problem is people just assume that all 8 are bad, when that isn't always the case. The uppers seem to take the most abuse, I've replaced mine and I can tell you that I only replaced 6 (and really I could have gotten away with only doing 4 at 115,000 miles). The dealer will tell you that they're all bad...all bad=more money...all bad is easy to say because they all may have cracks in them, but most control arm bushings on every car has cracks in their control arms...they are rubber, it's a stress point, they crack. Torn all the way through is a different story...massive amounts of excessive play is also another story.
Keep in mind that it's the price of these arms that's the problem, and the solution is aftermarket parts. The aftermarket control arms are readily available..much lower in price...and are holding up well. I think an average person should be able to take this car to an independent shop and get all 8 control arms replaced with aftermarket parts for $1200...maybe less. No problem. And think about it, you're replacing almost your entire front suspension system.
Obviously the design of this suspension system places extra stress on the control arms, but I've found that we don't hear of other problems in the front end, like...ball joints, tie rod ends, sway bar links and bushings. Those components fail regularly on most cars, could it be that they're less stressed on these cars? My point is that all car's suspensions wear out/fail/need replacement/need alignments/have excessive play....is $1,200 too much to repair a front suspension after 70,000-100,000 miles? Maybe, but it's not that far off.
The problem with the LS is that there's 8 of them. Another problem is people just assume that all 8 are bad, when that isn't always the case. The uppers seem to take the most abuse, I've replaced mine and I can tell you that I only replaced 6 (and really I could have gotten away with only doing 4 at 115,000 miles). The dealer will tell you that they're all bad...all bad=more money...all bad is easy to say because they all may have cracks in them, but most control arm bushings on every car has cracks in their control arms...they are rubber, it's a stress point, they crack. Torn all the way through is a different story...massive amounts of excessive play is also another story.
Keep in mind that it's the price of these arms that's the problem, and the solution is aftermarket parts. The aftermarket control arms are readily available..much lower in price...and are holding up well. I think an average person should be able to take this car to an independent shop and get all 8 control arms replaced with aftermarket parts for $1200...maybe less. No problem. And think about it, you're replacing almost your entire front suspension system.
Obviously the design of this suspension system places extra stress on the control arms, but I've found that we don't hear of other problems in the front end, like...ball joints, tie rod ends, sway bar links and bushings. Those components fail regularly on most cars, could it be that they're less stressed on these cars? My point is that all car's suspensions wear out/fail/need replacement/need alignments/have excessive play....is $1,200 too much to repair a front suspension after 70,000-100,000 miles? Maybe, but it's not that far off.
One of the reasons that an LS rides the way that it does is the suspension system. The downside is that there's a zillion bushings up there and rubber bushings wear out and need replacing.
Again, at 70+K miles I don't see this being a huge design flaw. BMWs use a similar system and eat control arm bushings as well. Lexus owners hold their cars to a higher standard in my experience so people being annoyed is understandable but truthfully, at this age and mileage I don't see this being that terrible on a car like this.
Personally, buy a bushing tool and replace the bushings, it's not a difficult DIY and you can, in an afternoon, likely save $4,000.
05-21-16, 03:04 PM
#18
Pole Position
Aftermarket parts and an independent repair shop........ Don't be afraid of going this route because changing the arms does not require a "factory trained specialist" from a Lexus Stealership.
Maybe someone here can direct you to a shop in your area.
$6000....... Does this include all new tires and wheels and a full detail??
Maybe someone here can direct you to a shop in your area.
$6000....... Does this include all new tires and wheels and a full detail??
05-21-16, 04:10 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
Aftermarket
The control arms are $800:$1200 at the parts stores or you can go the bushing route for less. Because I bought a warranty I have to play this dealer game for a bit.
05-21-16, 04:51 PM
#20
Advanced
EXCELLENT Post!
One of the reasons that an LS rides the way that it does is the suspension system. The downside is that there's a zillion bushings up there and rubber bushings wear out and need replacing.
Again, at 70+K miles I don't see this being a huge design flaw. BMWs use a similar system and eat control arm bushings as well. Lexus owners hold their cars to a higher standard in my experience so people being annoyed is understandable but truthfully, at this age and mileage I don't see this being that terrible on a car like this.
Personally, buy a bushing tool and replace the bushings, it's not a difficult DIY and you can, in an afternoon, likely save $4,000.
One of the reasons that an LS rides the way that it does is the suspension system. The downside is that there's a zillion bushings up there and rubber bushings wear out and need replacing.
Again, at 70+K miles I don't see this being a huge design flaw. BMWs use a similar system and eat control arm bushings as well. Lexus owners hold their cars to a higher standard in my experience so people being annoyed is understandable but truthfully, at this age and mileage I don't see this being that terrible on a car like this.
Personally, buy a bushing tool and replace the bushings, it's not a difficult DIY and you can, in an afternoon, likely save $4,000.
05-22-16, 04:55 AM
#22
Pole Position
Now my DIY thread isn't great, my pictures aren't the best and my direction could have been a little better, but the job is certainly doable.
05-22-16, 05:39 AM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
That's a crazy price, even considering how expensive these cars are new.
Personally, if I were buying one of these cars used, especially from a Lexus dealership, I would want to know if the arms have been replaced first or make the purchase contingent upon the replacement of the arms.
And if buying from a private party, I would inspect the arms first and foremost and if it looks bad, walk away.
Personally, if I were buying one of these cars used, especially from a Lexus dealership, I would want to know if the arms have been replaced first or make the purchase contingent upon the replacement of the arms.
And if buying from a private party, I would inspect the arms first and foremost and if it looks bad, walk away.
05-22-16, 07:51 AM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
That's a crazy price, even considering how expensive these cars are new.
Personally, if I were buying one of these cars used, especially from a Lexus dealership, I would want to know if the arms have been replaced first or make the purchase contingent upon the replacement of the arms.
And if buying from a private party, I would inspect the arms first and foremost and if it looks bad, walk away.
Personally, if I were buying one of these cars used, especially from a Lexus dealership, I would want to know if the arms have been replaced first or make the purchase contingent upon the replacement of the arms.
And if buying from a private party, I would inspect the arms first and foremost and if it looks bad, walk away.
05-22-16, 07:53 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
I did a somewhat detailed DIY for the removal and installation of the uppers and one lower. Now I didn't replace just the bushings, I replaced the arms. I didn't want to bother with just the bushings because then you're left with a ball stud on the other end that may be worn out (and chances are at 80k miles or more, they are). The control arms sell for $40-$120 a piece depending on which arm you're talking about.
Now my DIY thread isn't great, my pictures aren't the best and my direction could have been a little better, but the job is certainly doable.
Now my DIY thread isn't great, my pictures aren't the best and my direction could have been a little better, but the job is certainly doable.
05-24-16, 06:25 AM
#27
Pole Position
First off, you contact the warranty service. If they say it's covered, call Lexus Corp and have a nice conversation. If it's covered but through an independent shop, check into that. If it's not covered, still find a reputable local place that works on Toyota/Lexus products, buy your own parts and it shouldn't be more than a couple of grand max.
05-24-16, 07:34 AM
#28
If your warranty covers the repair, don't worry about the price. That's something the warranty provider will take care of anyway: either they'll deny the repair or negotiate on your behalf.
If the dealer (I'm guessing it must be your service advisor not the dealer in of itself) doesn't want to contact your warranty provider, try a different service advisor or a different dealer all together. Actually, next time just ask for the manager to save yourself all the hassle. There is absolutely no reason for them to deny contacting your warranty provider.
05-25-16, 08:19 AM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
I am not a handy person so I got my 2010 LS460 control arms replaced last March, inclusive of parts and labor for a tad over $1k. Given that you have a warranty, 2 things:
- Read the warranty coverage to ensure that this is covered
- Since you DO have a warranty, might as well have a dealer do it
If the warranty company declines coverage, I'd almost cancel that coverage and just find a $1k+ fix...
- Read the warranty coverage to ensure that this is covered
- Since you DO have a warranty, might as well have a dealer do it
If the warranty company declines coverage, I'd almost cancel that coverage and just find a $1k+ fix...
05-25-16, 08:56 AM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
I did a somewhat detailed DIY for the removal and installation of the uppers and one lower. Now I didn't replace just the bushings, I replaced the arms. I didn't want to bother with just the bushings because then you're left with a ball stud on the other end that may be worn out (and chances are at 80k miles or more, they are). The control arms sell for $40-$120 a piece depending on which arm you're talking about.
Now my DIY thread isn't great, my pictures aren't the best and my direction could have been a little better, but the job is certainly doable.
Now my DIY thread isn't great, my pictures aren't the best and my direction could have been a little better, but the job is certainly doable.
I think that some people would feel a bit better if they were actually able to watch a video, as a video "can" sometimes display the exact step-by-step process.