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Sorry to come on here so soon with a pressing issue, but I could really use some advice. Just bought a '13 CPO LS 460 AWD with 19's and absolutely love the car (just introduced myself earlier today). At 40k miles, it still looks and feels new. And while it's mostly flawless, it consistently pulls to the right on most roads (though the drift is delayed slightly on flatter roads).
I took it to a reputable Lexus dealer this morning, they acknowledged the pulling right, and performed an alignment, noting it was slightly off. Still pulls to the right. They rotated the brand new Michelin Pilot AS's every conceivable way; still pulls to the right. They deduced that it was the tires and that I should try another set. So, I took advantage of my tire warranty and swapped them out for some Yokohama YK580 (more affordable too). These tires are quieter and smoother, much to my surprise. But, the car still pulls right. I then tried a local mom and pop alignment shop and they said everything was within tolerance, but that the front right wheel's camber is a little off. See the picture for details and sorry for the crappy quality.
So with tires ruled out, alignment pretty much as good as it's gonna get, there being no sign of structural damage and, according to the Lexus tech, the rest of the components look great, I'm just stumped. Returning to the dealer Monday morning for another go at it, but could it be that the front right wheel's camber is off because of bad bushings/the upper control arms? This is such a bummer, so I hope that a solution isn't too far off. Car is under factor bumper t bumper until next year/50K and then CPO for 2 years after that..
Sorry to come on here so soon with a pressing issue, but I could really use some advice. Just bought a '13 CPO LS 460 AWD with 19's and absolutely love the car (just introduced myself earlier today). At 40k miles, it still looks and feels new. And while it's mostly flawless, it consistently pulls to the right on most roads (though the drift is delayed slightly on flatter roads).
I took it to a reputable Lexus dealer this morning, they acknowledged the pulling right, and performed an alignment, noting it was slightly off. Still pulls to the right. They rotated the brand new Michelin Pilot AS's every conceivable way; still pulls to the right. They deduced that it was the tires and that I should try another set. So, I took advantage of my tire warranty and swapped them out for some Yokohama YK580 (more affordable too). These tires are quieter and smoother, much to my surprise. But, the car still pulls right. I then tried a local mom and pop alignment shop and they said everything was within tolerance, but that the front right wheel's camber is a little off. See the picture for details and sorry for the crappy quality.
So with tires ruled out, alignment pretty much as good as it's gonna get, there being no sign of structural damage and, according to the Lexus tech, the rest of the components look great, I'm just stumped. Returning to the dealer Monday morning for another go at it, but could it be that the front right wheel's camber is off because of bad bushings/the upper control arms? This is such a bummer, so I hope that a solution isn't too far off. Car is under factor bumper t bumper until next year/50K and then CPO for 2 years after that..
Many thanks in advance for your insight!
Check your ride height across all four if you have air suspension.
Another thing. Could this be psychological? Make certain your steering wheel is dead on straight.
I didn't take take delivery of my car until it tracked true and even then took it back to have the steering wheel locked in true as well.
Sorry to come on here so soon with a pressing issue, but I could really use some advice. Just bought a '13 CPO LS 460 AWD with 19's and absolutely love the car (just introduced myself earlier today). At 40k miles, it still looks and feels new. And while it's mostly flawless, it consistently pulls to the right on most roads (though the drift is delayed slightly on flatter roads).
I took it to a reputable Lexus dealer this morning, they acknowledged the pulling right, and performed an alignment, noting it was slightly off. Still pulls to the right. They rotated the brand new Michelin Pilot AS's every conceivable way; still pulls to the right. They deduced that it was the tires and that I should try another set. So, I took advantage of my tire warranty and swapped them out for some Yokohama YK580 (more affordable too). These tires are quieter and smoother, much to my surprise. But, the car still pulls right. I then tried a local mom and pop alignment shop and they said everything was within tolerance, but that the front right wheel's camber is a little off. See the picture for details and sorry for the crappy quality.
So with tires ruled out, alignment pretty much as good as it's gonna get, there being no sign of structural damage and, according to the Lexus tech, the rest of the components look great, I'm just stumped. Returning to the dealer Monday morning for another go at it, but could it be that the front right wheel's camber is off because of bad bushings/the upper control arms? This is such a bummer, so I hope that a solution isn't too far off. Car is under factor bumper t bumper until next year/50K and then CPO for 2 years after that..
Many thanks in advance for your insight!
I don't think so that slight camber out would make the car pull to right. I had developed a similar (0.02 degree) camber issue on my previous 2005 LS430. Dealer asked me $1000 to fix it. I drove my vehicle for another 140k without any issue. During this time I went through 2 sets of tires and even the Toyota dealer whom I used to take it for service would align the car after tires and say that same camber issue and nothing to worry. This was so small that it did not even impact my tires wear and car would always drive straight.
In your case, the issue is almost double. Dealer needs to bring the car within manufacturer warranty and they should have done that during the 161 point L Certified inspection.
My vehicle developed two minor issues during the first week of purchase (L Certified) and I requested Lexus to ensure that they redo the 161 point inspection at another dealer to ensure everything is checked properly and they did that at no cost to me.
Check your ride height across all four if you have air suspension.
Another thing. Could this be psychological? Make certain your steering wheel is dead on straight.
I didn't take take delivery of my car until it tracked true and even then took it back to have the steering wheel locked in true as well.
Standard suspension and I really wish it was just psychological In this case, the pulling has been observed and documented by the Lexus tech, tire tech, and independent alignment tech.
Great thought on the steering wheel. I was wondering if it could be misaligned, but would think that would have been addressed with the alignment..
I don't think so that slight camber out would make the car pull to right. I had developed a similar (0.02 degree) camber issue on my previous 2005 LS430. Dealer asked me $1000 to fix it. I drove my vehicle for another 140k without any issue. During this time I went through 2 sets of tires and even the Toyota dealer whom I used to take it for service would align the car after tires and say that same camber issue and nothing to worry. This was so small that it did not even impact my tires wear and I car would always drive straight.
In your case, the issue is almost double. Dealer needs to bring the car within manufacturer warranty and they should have done that during the 161 point L Certified inspection.
My vehicle developed two minor issues during the first week of purchase (L Certified) and I requested Lexus to ensure that they redo the 161 point inspection at another dealer to ensure everything is checked properly and they did that at no cost to me.
Really appreciate the info. 161-inspection/CPO prep included an alignment according to the service history and it was noted as complete on the report sheet. Based on your post though, I'm thinking that I should really insist that the slight camber be corrected. Think it will straighten it out? How is the camber adjusted on the LS and is there a chance they'll not include it under warranty?
Standard suspension and I really wish it was just psychological In this case, the pulling has been observed and documented by the Lexus tech, tire tech, and independent alignment tech.
Great thought on the steering wheel. I was wondering if it could be misaligned, but would think that would have been addressed with the alignment..
You'd be surprised how often i've caught an off centre steering wheel when getting alignments. Time billed for an alignment isn't a whole lot and it isn't always a priority. Remember the primary purpose for most of getting an alignment is so their tires don't prematurely wear.
I'm super OCD about my steering wheel being as close to dead on as possible when tracking straight, but many people aren't.
You'd be surprised how often i've caught an off centre steering wheel when getting alignments. Time billed for an alignment isn't a whole lot and it isn't always a priority. Remember the primary purpose for most of getting an alignment is so their tires don't prematurely wear.
I'm super OCD about my steering wheel being as close to dead on as possible when tracking straight, but many people aren't.
Duly noted..in addition to addressing the camber, I'll insist that they make sure the steering wheel is straight. I'm trying not to let this drive me nuts, but it really does bug me.
I've had some issues with my car pulling, I've tried replacing control arms (didn't help), I've had tire rotations, tire changes (nothing). The only thing that helped was aligning the thing several times myself, until it finally drove straight. I will say that highway road crown still does a number on the car in the fast lane, but on normal rods you can get these things right. You can play around with tire pressure a little too...the car will pull to the side with the lower tire pressure, you may be able to offset it by taking some out of the opposite tire and adding a little to the pulling side.
I really can't tell by your picture what is going on with your alignment, but keep in mind positive camber at a wheel will cause it to pull. And a car will pull to the side with the least positive caster. Again, air pressure and ride height play a roll. Even the rear alignment angles need to be perfect. It's a big car with wide tires, I find it's difficult to keep the thing tracking straight too.
If you can't get it to track straight with the factory specs, you may have to take it to a shop that does a lot of custom work and have them align it to track straight instead of just align it to specs (custom shops are used to creating their own alignment specs).
I've had a couple cars in my life for whatever reason we're quirky and needed to be aligned a certain way, outside the specs.
How come some of the after alignment specs still show red? I'm not an alignment expert, but wouldn't an in-spec alignment show all green? Maybe I'm reading too much into those colors and the numbers are still within tolerances, but I honestly have no idea. In any case, I would start there first and ask why those numbers show red.
Here are some other suggestions:
1. Bad alignment (obvious)
2. Tires (this caused a huge alignment issue for me, although you changed tires with no luck)
3. Shocks or springs going bad (had a leaking/failing strut that caused an issue for me as well in another car)
4. Other suspension components bad or failing, like bushings maybe?
5. Warped rotors or hubs
You all are incredibly helpful and considerate for chiming in. Thanks so much.
Based on one of your suggestions, I increased the tire pressure on the right front wheel by 2psi over the left front. I proceeded to drive over several types of roads throughout the day and noticed that the pull to right was mitigated somewhat, as in it took a little longer for it to start drifting. If there is a crown in the road, it still will pull to the right, which I think is going to happen no matter what, but it's the eagerness with which it does so that makes me concerned. I did notice that while in the left lane of roads crowned in the center it would drift left as well, but not nearly as quickly or deliberately. Given the miniscule camber issue front right, it makes sense. On flat roads it seemed to track pretty straight, though only if the steering wheel was brought on center to start. Perhaps the lack of decisive on-center feel is something I'm not used to and simply is a byproduct of the car's naturally relaxed steering feedback. So I guess I'm experiencing something I hadn't noticed before: these cars are quite sensitive to the angle of the road surface, as another member mentioned above.
I'm still going to honor my appointment tomorrow morning and have them inspect everything more thoroughly (the steering wheel being centered, alignment/camber especially, the condition of the suspension components, the tires, rims, etc..) to see if the pulling condition can be improved and, if possible, completely corrected. I certainly don't want to come across as excessively critical or paranoid, it's just that I want to keep this ride for a very long time and have it running in optimal condition.
Do any of you know how front camber is adjusted on the LS? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that I read somewhere how it is not part of the standard alignment procedure. Anyway, I will let you all know how it goes.. Hoping for the best and thanks again to each of you for the support.
How come some of the after alignment specs still show red? I'm not an alignment expert, but wouldn't an in-spec alignment show all green? Maybe I'm reading too much into those colors and the numbers are still within tolerances, but I honestly have no idea. In any case, I would start there first and ask why those numbers show red.
Here are some other suggestions:
1. Bad alignment (obvious)
2. Tires (this caused a huge alignment issue for me, although you changed tires with no luck)
3. Shocks or springs going bad (had a leaking/failing strut that caused an issue for me as well in another car)
4. Other suspension components bad or failing, like bushings maybe?
5. Warped rotors or hubs
I appreciate the suggestions and will offer them up to the tech. As for the color coding, yes they are a bit misleading. Everything is within tolerance and if it's red, it's just approaching borderline, but still acceptable.
You all are incredibly helpful and considerate for chiming in. Thanks so much.
Based on one of your suggestions, I increased the tire pressure on the right front wheel by 2psi over the left front. I proceeded to drive over several types of roads throughout the day and noticed that the pull to right was mitigated somewhat, as in it took a little longer for it to start drifting. If there is a crown in the road, it still will pull to the right, which I think is going to happen no matter what, but it's the eagerness with which it does so that makes me concerned. I did notice that while in the left lane of roads crowned in the center it would drift left as well, but not nearly as quickly or deliberately. Given the miniscule camber issue front right, it makes sense. On flat roads it seemed to track pretty straight, though only if the steering wheel was brought on center to start. Perhaps the lack of decisive on-center feel is something I'm not used to and simply is a byproduct of the car's naturally relaxed steering feedback. So I guess I'm experiencing something I hadn't noticed before: these cars are quite sensitive to the angle of the road surface, as another member mentioned above.
I'm still going to honor my appointment tomorrow morning and have them inspect everything more thoroughly (the steering wheel being centered, alignment/camber especially, the condition of the suspension components, the tires, rims, etc..) to see if the pulling condition can be improved and, if possible, completely corrected. I certainly don't want to come across as excessively critical or paranoid, it's just that I want to keep this ride for a very long time and have it running in optimal condition.
Do any of you know how front camber is adjusted on the LS? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that I read somewhere how it is not part of the standard alignment procedure. Anyway, I will let you all know how it goes.. Hoping for the best and thanks again to each of you for the support.
I don't believe there is a factory adjustment for camber, but the upper control arm mounts can be modified. And I would think there are aftermarket mounts available that adjust camber.
I want to say there is a also a cradle adjustment procedure to bring some of the angles back in spec.
my lexus was fine as were fine in this regard both as to alignment and tire wear, until 2008 ls460. my tires are shot at 15000 miles
this car was aligned 2x but it ddi not stop the driving to the right a new dealer mechanic -shifted the sub frame at $300- the car now drives
straight. simple- How do they make a 67000 car without an adjutable camber or instructions about what to? I guess for another $5- to the cost I would have gotten instructions
Took the LS in this morning and gave them my list of concerns, compiled largely from all of your very helpful suggestions. I also had a different service adviser who put a master technician on the case (last time it was a busy Saturday morning, so I'm not sure about the level of experience of whomever worked on it that day). Turns out the steering wheel was off by .8 degrees to the right and the front right toe was out of whack considerably. These two factors accounted for why the car would so quickly pull right and why I had to keep tugging left to keep straight. They also corrected the overall alignment front and back. The tech wanted me to go for a ride with him and we talked along the way. He said that he's done thousands of alignments, many on LS's, and mine is as "as good as or better than ideal."
On the ride home I found a few roads that I know to be relatively flat and the car tracked straight It still will drift right on crowned roads, but that is to be expected with most cars and perhaps a bit more pronounced with this one, as some of you have noted. So after all of our guesswork, the solution ended up being a proper, correctly performed alignment. Along the way I learned quite a bit and am glad to be a more knowledgeable LS owner. I suppose another silver lining here is that I experienced how Yokohama YK580's are a tremendous tire for this car. I normally would have gone with Michelin all the way, but these Yoko's are so buttery smooth, quiet, and responsive that I just had to sing their praises..a night and day difference between them and the Michelin Pilot AS 3's that were removed in an effort to track down the culprit.
This forum is incredible and I'm really glad to be a part of it. I wish you all the very best and thank you again for taking the time to help me!
04-16-16, 06:41 PM
Need Help: 2013 LS AWD pulling to the right
In this case, the pulling has been observed and documented by the Lexus tech, tire tech, and independent alignment tech.
It still will drift right on crowned roads, but that is to be expected with most cars and perhaps a bit more pronounced with this one, as some of you have noted. So after all of our guesswork, the solution ended up being a proper, correctly performed alignment. Along the way I learned quite a bit and am glad to be a more knowledgeable LS owner. I suppose another silver lining here is that I experienced how Yokohama YK580's are a tremendous tire for this car. I normally would have gone with Michelin all the way, but these Yoko's are so buttery smooth, quiet, and responsive that I just had to sing their praises..a night and day difference between them and the Michelin Pilot AS 3's that were removed in an effort to track down the culprit.