jasone36

Hey everyone, I'm going to try to keep this brief.

As many of your know, I was recently on an eight-month journey to purchase a 2013 LS460 AWD LWB (I finally got one).

Bottom line: Always check engine fault codes when buying a used Lexus (or any modern car).

Throughout my shopping experience, I looked at quite a few used LS460's, some at Lexus dealers, some at no-name dealerships.

I was looking at a particular LS at an official (and popular) Lexus dealer in the New York Tri-State area. The dealer will remain nameless in order to "protect the guilty".

I noticed this specific LS was about $5,000 - $7,000 under "retail market value". It had some cosmetic issues, but nothing too concerning.

I noticed it was curiously missing its inspection stickers, but the Lexus sales "executive" said "oh don't worry, you can go anywhere for the inspection"... I said "doesn't every car leave the Lexus dealership with an inspection sticker", and he gave me some vague response saying their shop is "too busy" and that "I'm getting a steal of a deal... just go anywhere for the inspection".

Since it otherwise seemed fine, I gave it no further thoughts (after all, it was $5,000 - $7,000 under "retail market value").

I test drove it, and it drove fine.

No lights were showing on the dashboard (no check engine lights, no traction control lights, nothing at all).

I decided to purchase it, and gave them a deposit, saying I'd come back in a few days with the auto-loan bank check in hand.

Of course, I checked out the LexusDriver portal and it looked fairly well-maintained.

I come back a few days later to purchase it, but this time, "just in case" I brought a $30 ODB-II tester from Pep Boys.

I drove it again and once again no issues came up.

Then.... JUST before I went in to "sign on the dotted line" I plugged in the ODB-II tester to make sure everything's fine...

...and it showed most of the systems as "NOT READY"...

This means that the Check Engine and other lights came on recently, but the dealership simply turned off the lights. They would come back on within 30 miles or less.

And, of course, since most of the systems were showing as "not ready", of course the car wouldn't pass state inspection. Now it all made sense.

I go back into the dealership, quite upset, and ask the Lexus "sales executive" if he is aware of the "check engine" lights and traction control issues.

He said "yes, but I didn't feel it was important to tell you, since the mechanic said it'll be fine".

About 30 seconds later, after the "sales executive' ascertained that I wasn't going to buy the car, he essentially "commanded" me to "leave the dealership property immediately", saying that "I have no business plugging in gadgets into their cars".

I was appalled, and my jaw nearly dropped. This otherwise "upstanding" looking sales executive turned "gangster-mafia" on me within seconds, with thinly veiled threats to call "right the people" if I don't leave their property immediately.

Mind you, this is an official Lexus dealer in the NYC area, and I am what you would call a "white collar" guy, wearing a suit, looking to buy a $50,000+ LS. Hardly a "troublemaker".

After the fact, I checked the LexusDriver portal and saw that the "catalytic converter" and "traction control systems" were faulty and were being "remedied", presumably at the new owner's expense.

Anyway, six months later I purchased my LS from a non-Lexus dealer, and had zero issues.

You live and you learn... ALWAYS check engine codes, even at official dealerships.

sndlight

Very sketchy. Report them to corporate.
I'm glad you caught that and did not get yourself in a mess.

Dr. Jekyll

iTrader: (1)

Why keep the dealer's name private?!? I say out them and protect a few of our fellow CL members for possible future scams. It's not defamation if it's true so they can;t do anything to you and I'm assuming you're not going back to them for anything.

CJITTY

You did your homework and perhaps it paid off. These cars are complex and some dealers are good at hiding things. You need to report your experience to Lexus Corporate but they may or may not ask you about plugging in that device to the car, so that may not get you anywhere. If the salesperson was unprofessional toward you, that should be mentioned.

Rhambler

You don't even have to plug in an OBD to read stored codes, at least on our generation. It's buried in menu > settings > somewhere. I stumbled upon it by sheer accident, it's buried a bit, but there and easily accessible without having to do anything special. That is assuming it's not erased from the car.

I'll find it again when I have time and take pictures. I don't have any codes, but that's where it would show. Heck, it may even be in the owner's manual, but I forgot.

Kennyr44

This makes no sense because if it doesn't pass emissions they have to take the car back anyway. The only way the dealer gets away with it is if you take it to an area that doesn't require an emission test.

RX469

iTrader: (1)

Thanks 36, that's a good point to remember, to check engine codes.

I don't see what's the problem of testing using the available OBD port? That's what it's there for, especially if you have nothing to hide.

Rhambler

Yeah, so to find stored codes while in the car, just go to Menu > Info and you should see a Vehicle Alert History.

Quick and easy way to see if you're searching for a used LS, assuming they aren't erased, but hey, you never know until you check.

hfahmy

Report this dealer to Lexus...

jasone36

Thanks for all the responses.

To answer some questions, as this car was for sale so much below it's "retail value", the dealer was selling at "as is, where is, with no warranties implied".

I wouldn't want to publicly tarnish the entire dealership's reputation over a single sales person, I don't believe that's fair. But of course, that's not the only reason...

Also, I did not explicitly ask for "permission" to plug in the ODB-II tester (during my second trip there, the sales person allowed me to spend some time in the car "un-accompanied", which is when I plugged in the ODB-II tester and saw the codes).

Even if were to contact Lexus Corporate (which I wouldn't do), I'm sure they would side with the dealership saying "foreign gadgets are not allowed to be plugged into dealership-owned cars"... which of course is a Catch-22... I won't know the detailed code unless I plug it in.

Before I got codes, I had insisted that they get the state inspection stickers on the car prior to my purchase, but he kept reassuring me that's it's perfectly fine to sell it to me "as is" (saying things along the lines of "Look, this is not a CPO or warrantied car, it's as is...", and that "I could get the inspection done anywhere".

The first time I came in, the sales person wouldn't let me take the car on a test drive unaccompanied, and didn't leave the car's sight the entire time (which I thought was sketchy... but again at $5,000 to $7,000 below retail value I was willing to overlook this).

And finally, I was initially considering financing through the dealership (my FICO credit scores are in the high 700s), so I had to turn all over ALL my personal information... social security number, address, copy of my driver's license, my employment information, annual income, title at work, address, credit card number (for the initial deposit), etc.

When you don't buy the car this information doesn't just get "deleted" from their systems... and most of it was initially handwritten on paper... thus if this sales person was less-than-ethical (which was already proven, of course), there's no saying what he could do with all my personal information if I were to "drop a dime" on him (figuratively speaking).

He basically had a full and nearly complete dossier on me.... and has already made passive-aggressive type "veiled threats".

Call me "chicken ish", but that "sales executive" was certainly not someone I would want to mess with.

It sounds absurd, I know, but sometimes one has to protect themselves (to the degree possible).

Nospinzone

I would report it to Lexus Corporate.

I remember in 1994 we were buying an Infiniti J30t for my wife. We drove to the nearest dealer and I was shocked to see that the place was closed down. It was a brand new place, had only been open a couple years. I later found out that Infiniti received so many complaints about unscrupulous sales tactics that they pulled the dealership.

I have no doubt Lexus wouldn't do the same if they had to.

Kennyr44

AS IS doesn't allow any dealer to sell a car that wont pass emissions. Passing emissions is always mandatory or they must take the car back and make you whole 100%. These people were hoping to sell to a person taking the car to a non emission required area to license it. Or just complete idiots or bad con artists. Also plugging in your obd2 tester is just like you turning on the radio to see if it works. This is why obd2 was federally mandated in every new car sold in this country in 1996. I agree with you, don't badmouth this dealer or salesman. They are crooks and will possibly retaliate.

jasone36

That was precisely my concern.

And don't forget, we're dealing with New Yorkers here... it's a certain type of mentality, which can sometimes be scruple (I can say this, since I am a New Yorker)... and when it comes down to it, I wouldn't entirely rule out some form of retaliation by crooks like these.

For those on the forum who don't live in urban environments... it can sound bizarre to feel this way, but given the circumstances, I suppose choosing one's battles wisely makes sense.

jasone36

Rhambler, thanks for the screenshot, but I couldn't find this menu on my 2013 LS460.

Maybe this is something they added to the later software (I see you have a 2016 model).

UZ214

this is nuts, thanks for sharing.

I never go to NYC or north Jersey for any used cars, ever. they come across pretty shady and even the lexus dealers are not any better. I bought a Rx330 about 10 year ago and everyting was great other than it had been into an rear accident- a nice certifed lexus car..