**My Crazy LS600hL Hybrid Story**
02-26-16, 11:15 AM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
02-26-16, 12:45 PM
#47
Cjitty - really sorry that you went through this and that you've now sold your 600. It also seems completely crazy that CPO won't cover this, but the Platinum warranty will.
I hadn't really considered the battery pack until now a disposable item, but I guess this makes sense as it's going to wear out at some time. Your comments about how the car drove after getting a new battery pack were also interesting in that you are reporting considerably more battery life before the ICE kicks in to recharge.
That got me thinking - is it possible to somehow measure or test how our hybrid battery is actually performing relative to a good or bad pack? I am sure Lexus\Toyota has this testing methodology as they are able to determine if the pack is good or bad. So far I've found this process which involves using techstream to monitor the pack during discharge: http://artsautomotive.com/publicatio...-prius-hybrid/
The above URL clearly show how a new battery runs for considerably longer versus a malfunctioning battery. I do have techstream, so I might test this out in the coming weeks and see how my pack is performing in regards to the voltage variations mentioned.
I hadn't really considered the battery pack until now a disposable item, but I guess this makes sense as it's going to wear out at some time. Your comments about how the car drove after getting a new battery pack were also interesting in that you are reporting considerably more battery life before the ICE kicks in to recharge.
That got me thinking - is it possible to somehow measure or test how our hybrid battery is actually performing relative to a good or bad pack? I am sure Lexus\Toyota has this testing methodology as they are able to determine if the pack is good or bad. So far I've found this process which involves using techstream to monitor the pack during discharge: http://artsautomotive.com/publicatio...-prius-hybrid/
The above URL clearly show how a new battery runs for considerably longer versus a malfunctioning battery. I do have techstream, so I might test this out in the coming weeks and see how my pack is performing in regards to the voltage variations mentioned.
02-26-16, 12:57 PM
#48
Instructor
Cjitty - really sorry that you went through this and that you've now sold your 600. It also seems completely crazy that CPO won't cover this, but the Platinum warranty will.
I hadn't really considered the battery pack until now a disposable item, but I guess this makes sense as it's going to wear out at some time. Your comments about how the car drove after getting a new battery pack were also interesting in that you are reporting considerably more battery life before the ICE kicks in to recharge.
That got me thinking - is it possible to somehow measure or test how our hybrid battery is actually performing relative to a good or bad pack? I am sure Lexus\Toyota has this testing methodology as they are able to determine if the pack is good or bad. So far I've found this process which involves using techstream to monitor the pack during discharge: http://artsautomotive.com/publicatio...-prius-hybrid/
The above URL clearly show how a new battery runs for considerably longer versus a malfunctioning battery. I do have techstream, so I might test this out in the coming weeks and see how my pack is performing in regards to the voltage variations mentioned.
I hadn't really considered the battery pack until now a disposable item, but I guess this makes sense as it's going to wear out at some time. Your comments about how the car drove after getting a new battery pack were also interesting in that you are reporting considerably more battery life before the ICE kicks in to recharge.
That got me thinking - is it possible to somehow measure or test how our hybrid battery is actually performing relative to a good or bad pack? I am sure Lexus\Toyota has this testing methodology as they are able to determine if the pack is good or bad. So far I've found this process which involves using techstream to monitor the pack during discharge: http://artsautomotive.com/publicatio...-prius-hybrid/
The above URL clearly show how a new battery runs for considerably longer versus a malfunctioning battery. I do have techstream, so I might test this out in the coming weeks and see how my pack is performing in regards to the voltage variations mentioned.
I actually asked this question to my Lexus service advisor this week when my car was in for a routine oil change. He said that he did not know of any testing methodology from Lexus to determine if the batteries were degraded. He said he's only seen one battery replacement in all his years with Lexus, and it was caused by water intrusion into the battery compartment (and resulting corrosion). My engine does seem to kick on fairly frequently when I'm sitting in Park idling, and I relayed my concerns to my service guy. My warranty expires in 2 months, and I wanted to get some documentation in my Lexus service records that I believe my batteries are degraded at this time (in case CJITTY's nightmare scenario happens to me).
02-26-16, 01:34 PM
#49
02-26-16, 02:07 PM
#50
I am on another forum where people just rave about the Tesla. Reading the posts in this thread make me wonder just what those owners might be raving, er ranting, about a few years from now. 
02-26-16, 03:28 PM
#51
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Isn't there a place on our CL Forum to communicate with the Corporate Lexus Warranty guys? I seem to remember such a thing.
If so, perhaps we should all hit that one with our major concerns over how Jitty was treated and our growing fear that Lexus Customer Service may be on the decline. I would think the collective strength of our CL LS Community would be able to sway the Corporate Lexus guys to some degree. It's probably too late for Jitty, but this sort of issue will impact many of us in the future, so now may be the time to voice our dissatisfaction/concern to Corporate Lexus...
Thoughts?
If so, perhaps we should all hit that one with our major concerns over how Jitty was treated and our growing fear that Lexus Customer Service may be on the decline. I would think the collective strength of our CL LS Community would be able to sway the Corporate Lexus guys to some degree. It's probably too late for Jitty, but this sort of issue will impact many of us in the future, so now may be the time to voice our dissatisfaction/concern to Corporate Lexus...
Thoughts?
02-26-16, 03:33 PM
#52
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Hey man, actually test drove both recently. Amazing vehicles but I enjoyed the ride of the K900 better believe it or not. But the tech is better in Hyundai. For example, the top K900 VIP doesn't offer powered rear door sunshades. They have the manual spring loaded ones vs Hyundai powered rear shades. Also, K900 doesn't offer Bluelink service. Similar to Lexus Enform with app remote start/status etc. I still love the LS though..it's not the car's fault at the end of the day. Terrible timing but not having the company not stand behind their flagship..sad
02-26-16, 03:34 PM
#53
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
02-26-16, 03:39 PM
#54
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I'm not sure who else has more recently dealt with Lexus at the dealership level as well as the corporate level other than I, but regarding my recent dealings with both and a goodwill gesture, it was corporate who had the complete authority to make the call, and I would have to assume that it would be corp. in this given situation, especially when speaking about a hybrid component of a 600hL.
In the event you, CJITTY weren't aware as well as some others, I recently had Lexus replace my UCA's via goodwill, but I was responsible for labor.
As not to completely rehash the entire story (its documented in another 'control arm' thread), when I was initially informed about the issue after having them inspected by the Lexus mechanic group, I was plainly given a diagnosis and a price for parts and labor.
I didn't even bother asking anyone at the dealership to work with me regarding the cost, because of the age of my vehicle (though the miles were pretty low), and I figured that it'd be a waste of time, so I went immediately to corporate.
I wrote them a long detailed and respectful email on Sunday, was notified on Monday that the email was received and that I should be getting a call from a case representative that following Wednesday, then actually received a call on Thursday saying that they decided to take care of the replacement, but I would be responsible for labor.
My post goes into further detail about what happened between this occurrence and when I finally took advantage of the goodwill gesture, but another set of instances occurred that I have not posted here, and I ended up having to speak to the owner of the dealership, and had a lengthy conversation with him discussing the situation from A to Z.
It ended well, with him offering several apologies as well as a few free services, but unbeknownst to him, I will not be returning, though the dealership is 12 minutes away from my home.
Something the owner said to me that I was already privy to, was that he was glad that LC (Lexus Corp) offered a goodwill service, and to be honest, given the circumstances, they probably would not have offered the same assistance. But it was Corp's. call and they are to honor what comes from corp.
He went on to state the obvious..."As I'm sure you understand, we are here to not only serve customers, but also to be successful which requires us to make money. I mean...you understand that right?"
I'd surmise that the decision came purely from corporate.
The other issue I have with your situation, is that, thought its great that they offered assistance, why be petty and leave you with a $1500 bill.
I'm absolutely sorry this situation occurred, especially given the fact that:
A. The dealership didn't see fit to handle it, and B., the fact that you had to take it to corp. and the fiasco that ensued should not have even happened.
Indeed, great things come to those who wait.
In the event you, CJITTY weren't aware as well as some others, I recently had Lexus replace my UCA's via goodwill, but I was responsible for labor.
As not to completely rehash the entire story (its documented in another 'control arm' thread), when I was initially informed about the issue after having them inspected by the Lexus mechanic group, I was plainly given a diagnosis and a price for parts and labor.
I didn't even bother asking anyone at the dealership to work with me regarding the cost, because of the age of my vehicle (though the miles were pretty low), and I figured that it'd be a waste of time, so I went immediately to corporate.
I wrote them a long detailed and respectful email on Sunday, was notified on Monday that the email was received and that I should be getting a call from a case representative that following Wednesday, then actually received a call on Thursday saying that they decided to take care of the replacement, but I would be responsible for labor.
My post goes into further detail about what happened between this occurrence and when I finally took advantage of the goodwill gesture, but another set of instances occurred that I have not posted here, and I ended up having to speak to the owner of the dealership, and had a lengthy conversation with him discussing the situation from A to Z.
It ended well, with him offering several apologies as well as a few free services, but unbeknownst to him, I will not be returning, though the dealership is 12 minutes away from my home.
Something the owner said to me that I was already privy to, was that he was glad that LC (Lexus Corp) offered a goodwill service, and to be honest, given the circumstances, they probably would not have offered the same assistance. But it was Corp's. call and they are to honor what comes from corp.
He went on to state the obvious..."As I'm sure you understand, we are here to not only serve customers, but also to be successful which requires us to make money. I mean...you understand that right?"
I'd surmise that the decision came purely from corporate.
The other issue I have with your situation, is that, thought its great that they offered assistance, why be petty and leave you with a $1500 bill.
I'm absolutely sorry this situation occurred, especially given the fact that:
A. The dealership didn't see fit to handle it, and B., the fact that you had to take it to corp. and the fiasco that ensued should not have even happened.
Indeed, great things come to those who wait.
02-28-16, 11:41 AM
#55
Pole Position
I'm not sure who else has more recently dealt with Lexus at the dealership level as well as the corporate level other than I, but regarding my recent dealings with both and a goodwill gesture, it was corporate who had the complete authority to make the call, and I would have to assume that it would be corp. in this given situation, especially when speaking about a hybrid component of a 600hL.
In the event you, CJITTY weren't aware as well as some others, I recently had Lexus replace my UCA's via goodwill, but I was responsible for labor.
As not to completely rehash the entire story (its documented in another 'control arm' thread), when I was initially informed about the issue after having them inspected by the Lexus mechanic group, I was plainly given a diagnosis and a price for parts and labor.
I didn't even bother asking anyone at the dealership to work with me regarding the cost, because of the age of my vehicle (though the miles were pretty low), and I figured that it'd be a waste of time, so I went immediately to corporate.
I wrote them a long detailed and respectful email on Sunday, was notified on Monday that the email was received and that I should be getting a call from a case representative that following Wednesday, then actually received a call on Thursday saying that they decided to take care of the replacement, but I would be responsible for labor.
My post goes into further detail about what happened between this occurrence and when I finally took advantage of the goodwill gesture, but another set of instances occurred that I have not posted here, and I ended up having to speak to the owner of the dealership, and had a lengthy conversation with him discussing the situation from A to Z.
It ended well, with him offering several apologies as well as a few free services, but unbeknownst to him, I will not be returning, though the dealership is 12 minutes away from my home.
Something the owner said to me that I was already privy to, was that he was glad that LC (Lexus Corp) offered a goodwill service, and to be honest, given the circumstances, they probably would not have offered the same assistance. But it was Corp's. call and they are to honor what comes from corp.
He went on to state the obvious..."As I'm sure you understand, we are here to not only serve customers, but also to be successful which requires us to make money. I mean...you understand that right?"
I'd surmise that the decision came purely from corporate.
The other issue I have with your situation, is that, thought its great that they offered assistance, why be petty and leave you with a $1500 bill.
I'm absolutely sorry this situation occurred, especially given the fact that:
A. The dealership didn't see fit to handle it, and B., the fact that you had to take it to corp. and the fiasco that ensued should not have even happened.
Indeed, great things come to those who wait.
In the event you, CJITTY weren't aware as well as some others, I recently had Lexus replace my UCA's via goodwill, but I was responsible for labor.
As not to completely rehash the entire story (its documented in another 'control arm' thread), when I was initially informed about the issue after having them inspected by the Lexus mechanic group, I was plainly given a diagnosis and a price for parts and labor.
I didn't even bother asking anyone at the dealership to work with me regarding the cost, because of the age of my vehicle (though the miles were pretty low), and I figured that it'd be a waste of time, so I went immediately to corporate.
I wrote them a long detailed and respectful email on Sunday, was notified on Monday that the email was received and that I should be getting a call from a case representative that following Wednesday, then actually received a call on Thursday saying that they decided to take care of the replacement, but I would be responsible for labor.
My post goes into further detail about what happened between this occurrence and when I finally took advantage of the goodwill gesture, but another set of instances occurred that I have not posted here, and I ended up having to speak to the owner of the dealership, and had a lengthy conversation with him discussing the situation from A to Z.
It ended well, with him offering several apologies as well as a few free services, but unbeknownst to him, I will not be returning, though the dealership is 12 minutes away from my home.
Something the owner said to me that I was already privy to, was that he was glad that LC (Lexus Corp) offered a goodwill service, and to be honest, given the circumstances, they probably would not have offered the same assistance. But it was Corp's. call and they are to honor what comes from corp.
He went on to state the obvious..."As I'm sure you understand, we are here to not only serve customers, but also to be successful which requires us to make money. I mean...you understand that right?"
I'd surmise that the decision came purely from corporate.
The other issue I have with your situation, is that, thought its great that they offered assistance, why be petty and leave you with a $1500 bill.
I'm absolutely sorry this situation occurred, especially given the fact that:
A. The dealership didn't see fit to handle it, and B., the fact that you had to take it to corp. and the fiasco that ensued should not have even happened.
Indeed, great things come to those who wait.
Even lexus factory guy was asking the service manager (service manager called him) - how come I currently own 4 Lexuses (which I still do). Even then, the factory would not budge.. Lexus is no longer a "great customer satisfaction" company. They seem to be taking too hard of a stance.
Example are myself and Cjitty's warranty expiration by 1 day! That is absolutely ridiculous!
Why should anyone have to spend $7000 on exhaust, within 100k miles? Even at 150k miles for that matter! I put in 240k miles on my 1989 ls400 and it gave me no trouble at all. Every other car, I leased and got rid of them while in warranty.
Therefore, I have decided to move from Lexus to Jaguar.. The leases on my current four Lexuses, are expiring in the next month to 2 years.. AFter that, I would buy only jaguars.. I might lease one lexus, just to do the dealer a favor, because they have been good to me.
I hope the battery does not die! Mine is a 2008 with 90k miles.
As Cjitty wrote - it is very risky to own any of these cars, without extended warranty. The front arms might be an issue (not on mine).
I had three of these 2008 LS 600hls. Fortunately, I have only one 600 left now. I moved to the Jaguar xjl. I like their looks better. Frankly, When my xjl and 600 are parked next to each other, people always comment how great the Jaguar looks. The curb appeal of the Jaguar seems to equal the S550 or some times, even more! Far above the 600 - also the 600 did get attention in the past.
I do like driving the ls600hl better than the Jaguar xjl. I find the XJL's turbo noise very annoying.
I think this hybrid thing is all bogus.. While the 600hl is an amazing car - It seems to cost a whole lost more to maintain than the standard 460. A friend of mine has a 2007 460, with 125k miles and does not have any problems!
No more Lexus cars for me.. Besides, I dislike the current spindle grille.. It is rather ugly!
PS: The service writer told me that he saw the same failure in another 600! They sold only maybe 10 600s from their dealership... i am guessing.. Out of which, two, including mine, had the same hydrocarbon switch failure - $7000 repair!
Last edited by lexus600hl; 02-28-16 at 11:46 AM.
02-28-16, 04:31 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Like I said in the other thread....Lexus gave you 50% off the part out of warranty and the dealer isn't going to charge you labor, but Lexus is "no longer the customer service company"? I think thats a little unfair. CJITTY's situation is totally different, he was within the warranty when he logged the issue and service was simply unavailable.
Of course it does. The fact that it surprises you guys that the 600 costs more to maintain is what surprises me.
I think this hybrid thing is all bogus.. While the 600hl is an amazing car - It seems to cost a whole lost more to maintain than the standard 460. A friend of mine has a 2007 460, with 125k miles and does not have any problems!
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-28-16 at 04:48 PM.
02-28-16, 08:51 PM
#57
Wow, what a story. Interesting feedback, and in most cases, nearly all of the resistance will be at the dealership rather than corporate. It surprises me what we can get away with nowadays, and that Lexus is still doing some sort of goodwill in any form for cars that are out of warranty, some even spanning near a decade. For example, BMW E46 subframe recalls lasted only 1 year, and dealing with the subsequent HPFP recall was a total nightmare (don't even get me started on the electric water pump that failed before 60k). Will Infiniti honor transmission and electrical failures after warranty? Nope. Hyundai out of warranty? Not a chance. MB? Audi?
Back then, up to the pre-90s, MB had a fantastic emergency service that transferred to any owner, even used. Then they had a bit of a crisis with the quality of their cars in the mid 90s to mid 2000s that guaranteed they would not do this again. But I digress, damnit, you made my aging mind wander.... Anyways, cars nowadays don't seem to be built with the reputation and reliability that most of us were accustomed to. Now they are all rapidly aging technology, which leads me to be leery of owning any vehicle for longer than it's warranty period. But for Lexus to even take the time to hear us out, call us back, and offer anything speaks loads over anyone else who wouldn't even consider.
/mysmallchange
Back then, up to the pre-90s, MB had a fantastic emergency service that transferred to any owner, even used. Then they had a bit of a crisis with the quality of their cars in the mid 90s to mid 2000s that guaranteed they would not do this again. But I digress, damnit, you made my aging mind wander.... Anyways, cars nowadays don't seem to be built with the reputation and reliability that most of us were accustomed to. Now they are all rapidly aging technology, which leads me to be leery of owning any vehicle for longer than it's warranty period. But for Lexus to even take the time to hear us out, call us back, and offer anything speaks loads over anyone else who wouldn't even consider.
/mysmallchange
The following users liked this post:
mk4umha (12-24-17)
02-29-16, 05:19 AM
#58
Pole Position
Like I said in the other thread....Lexus gave you 50% off the part out of warranty and the dealer isn't going to charge you labor, but Lexus is "no longer the customer service company"? I think thats a little unfair. CJITTY's situation is totally different, he was within the warranty when he logged the issue and service was simply unavailable.
Of course it does. The fact that it surprises you guys that the 600 costs more to maintain is what surprises me.
Of course it does. The fact that it surprises you guys that the 600 costs more to maintain is what surprises me.
So easy, to be philosophical and spend other peoples money!
And if you had bought 25+ lexuses in past 27 years, your expectations might be different!
Maintenance cost is different from manufacturing defects or problems which would be reasonably not be expected.. like the catalytic converter - which seems same as the hydrocarbon switch.. And it think would have been covered if I were in california
02-29-16, 05:31 AM
#59
Pole Position
Wow, what a story. Interesting feedback, and in most cases, nearly all of the resistance will be at the dealership rather than corporate. It surprises me what we can get away with nowadays, and that Lexus is still doing some sort of goodwill in any form for cars that are out of warranty, some even spanning near a decade.
Back then, up to the pre-90s, MB had a fantastic emergency service that transferred to any owner, even used. Then they had a bit of a crisis with the quality of their cars in the mid 90s to mid 2000s that guaranteed they would not do this again. But I digress, damnit, you made my aging mind wander.... Anyways, cars nowadays don't seem to be built with the reputation and reliability that most of us were accustomed to. Now they are all rapidly aging technology, which leads me to be leery of owning any vehicle for longer than it's warranty period. But for Lexus to even take the time to hear us out, call us back, and offer anything speaks loads over anyone else who wouldn't even consider.
/mysmallchange
Back then, up to the pre-90s, MB had a fantastic emergency service that transferred to any owner, even used. Then they had a bit of a crisis with the quality of their cars in the mid 90s to mid 2000s that guaranteed they would not do this again. But I digress, damnit, you made my aging mind wander.... Anyways, cars nowadays don't seem to be built with the reputation and reliability that most of us were accustomed to. Now they are all rapidly aging technology, which leads me to be leery of owning any vehicle for longer than it's warranty period. But for Lexus to even take the time to hear us out, call us back, and offer anything speaks loads over anyone else who wouldn't even consider.
/mysmallchange
02-29-16, 05:35 AM
#60
Pole Position
Thanks for posting this cjitty.. I am seriously considering selling my last 600.
I am seriously consider talking to the dealer today or tomorrow - to replace it with a used ls 460.
I don't use the 600 myself anyway.. my employ gets to drive a "lower car". In the past, had actually offered him a newer ls460l in the past and he chose to wait and take the 600 later. Given the cost/risk, I think he will understand the "downgrade". I have to say.. the 600 truly, is an amazing car to drive!
It seems that I have to spend $5000 on the hybrid battery. I knew their warranty was only for 8 years, but I assumed that they would continue to work, even if under diminished capacity. Anyone know how long the prius batteries are lasting?
I am seriously consider talking to the dealer today or tomorrow - to replace it with a used ls 460.
I don't use the 600 myself anyway.. my employ gets to drive a "lower car". In the past, had actually offered him a newer ls460l in the past and he chose to wait and take the 600 later. Given the cost/risk, I think he will understand the "downgrade". I have to say.. the 600 truly, is an amazing car to drive!
It seems that I have to spend $5000 on the hybrid battery. I knew their warranty was only for 8 years, but I assumed that they would continue to work, even if under diminished capacity. Anyone know how long the prius batteries are lasting?