Spartan8

I'm looking for any guidance on replacing just the bushings in my 2010 LS AWD with air suspension. Bought the car at a good price knowing this front end work would be a project. My preference is to do all of the front control arm bushings only, where the problem is, and re-use the existing arms. Assuming the control arms are in decent shape.

The Lexus dealer I had look at it suggested that I only needed the uppers taken care of but the way I figure it, I might as well replace all of them (both uppers and lowers) while my LS is on the operating table. I won't use a dealer for this work and it sounds like some members have used even non-Toy/Lexus shops (provided they have a machine press) with some success. I appreciate some of the specific comments on greasing the bushings up before insertion, as well as "centering" the wheel/tire vertically before bolting it up. All helpful comments that I'll pass along to whichever mechanic that does the work.

I've read a lot of posts about buying bushings off of Ebay, another post mentioned Armstrong bushings... Has anyone undertaken this project some time ago and what are the long term results? I'm hoping to get some feedback on the type of bushings used (rubber or poly or other), how much it improved the ride, cost, noise level, where did you get the bushings etc. Also, if you didn't use a Lexus dealership for the work, what price did you pay? I'm also trying to figure out if the fact that my vehicle is AWD or has air means the bushings are the same or different in my car versus a non-AWD or non-air ride LS. I believe they are all the same.

I will definitely update my thread here with post-replacement comments and specifically what bushings I used, the ride, noise level, changes over time etc. It seems to me that for any of us that love this car like I do and intend to keep the vehicle for awhile, then we'll be doing this project a few times. And I've scoured the posts and can't find much follow up comments about how the project fared months or years after replacement.

I'm trying to determine the best way to do this such that I do it as infrequently as possible. It seems to me that using rubber bushings is a waste of time. That's what the car came with and they wear out too quickly. Same reason not to put in genuine Lexus control arms with bushings. Same part, same problem.

I gather the issue is a poor control arm (especially the uppers) design that creates excessive wear on the bushings. And with our crap Colorado roads due to the weather, I think it will exaggerate the problem. So if I need to pony up for a more expensive brand, or poly bushing or something else, I'm all ears. But if my trade off is a "never wear out product" that squeals like a Yugo, then I'm back to the drawing board. And I don't want to end up with a overly harsh, super stiff ride. My hope is the extra research here will get me an extra 10k - 30k miles before I have to do this again?

Thanks for any insights and experiences.

mdpresco

Replacing the bushings only can be done. This is common. I also see complete links on rockauto for cheap. I'm not sure what the quality of the bushings are or the manufacturer of the links. Replacing the bushings gives you control of the quality.

Did you read this thread?

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...placement.html

Others will chime in once their turkey settles a bit.

Unsober1

Check out figs. They are a colorado company.

http://shopfigs.com/v1/index.php?route=common/home

Spartan8

Thanks mdpresco and Unsober1. I did see that previous post from Jan of '14. I will send Vvman a PM and see how he would rate the Armstrong/Febest bushings he installed almost 2 years ago. That's my main concern; not doing this again anytime soon - like 50k or 60k miles from now....or more. I've got 85k on it now and it's getting loud.

So if it means finding a higher quality, more expensive brand of bushing with a longer life expectancy, then that's the way I'd rather go. I will also check out Rockauto. Have you had good luck with their parts?

From what I can tell Figs Engineering just appears to be a better designed bushing period. They've designed it to mitigate some of the inherent design flaws with the control arms to begin with. I'm in communications with them as they don't currently offer front lower bushings but that might change. And they may offer control arms with bushings as well. As I get info from them, I'll update this post. At a minimum, I'll buy their upper bushings and find the best lowers I can. And install that combination. I even offered to them to bring my vehicle for a period of time for them to measure the lower bushings with the thought they could use that data to develop lower bushings. Not sure how long that would take but you'll be the first to know.

I agree with the turkey settling....my issue was the stuffing, and the pecan pie, and the ham...my 16 way power driver's seat is going to take a pounding tomorrow...

Thanks again for the advice and guidance. It's appreciated

LexusManny

I'm trying to understand what are the effects of bad bushings on the front control arms.

Does it cause the front tires to wear uneven? [Manny - I'm answering my own questions after reading more threads...yes, worn bushings in the front control arms can cause tires to wear uneven. My front passenger side tire wore very unevenly on the outside.]

Does it mess up the wheel alignment? [My indy shop said it couldn't hold the wheel alignment on the front wheels because of the play in the bushings of the lower front control arms.]

Is the ride rougher on crappy roads or bumps or potholes?

What do I gain by replacing the bad control arms in the front? [Maintains tight control of the front wheels and maintains wheel alignment for straight driving.]

What do I lose by continuing to drive with the bad bushings in the front control arms?

Just want to know what this $700 repair with aftermarket ebay parts and independent shop labor will get me. Or should I spend the $700 on my next set of tires?

Spartan8

Hi LexusManny,

Thanks for posting. I'm not an overly technical guy but I can answer your question in one word - noisy. My '10 LS AWD, that I just got 4 months ago knowing it would need several grand worth of work (my guesstimate at the time) is getting progressively worse. I don't feel like the vehicle is unsafe and from the eye test, it doesn't appear as though it's wearing out the tires on either side of the vehicle, or the tire.

One of the qualities I love best about the LS we're all driving is the absolute quiet inside the cabin. I'm in my car all day running appointments around metro Denver and I actually enjoy it. I could care less about rush hour traffic as I feel enveloped in a cocoon of quiet, nice tunes, making calls etc. But the "clunking", which is the best way to describe it, is excessive from uneven roads, dips, compressions etc. NOT just potholes, those are much worse. It's loud. It was a nuisance when it started, but it's getting tiresome now. My wife's 11 year old Sienna is church quiet compared to my flagship.

So I'm not going to settle for putting in a grand every year or two for some band-aid type fixes if I can help it.

The best thread on replacing bushings was posted by Vvman about 2 years ago. (see below) I've PM'd him to get some post - bushing replacement feedback and he wasn't satisfied with the bushings he used or the results he got. And he spent a lot of time researching his products. (As an aside, once I get his permission, I'll post his exact comments on this thread.) He too kept his cost relatively low but he's now replaced them again. I'm just not willing to do that if I can help it.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...placement.html

Unsober1 pointed me to a local Colorado high performance parts shop called Figs Engineering and they supply a higher end bushing replacement kit for the LS. But it's only for the front upper control arms, not the lowers. I'm talking to them about both bushings for the lower control arms as well as an option for OE control arms with their performance bushings already installed. I'll post up when I've got something to share. Here's the link for their bushings:

http://shopfigs.com/v1/index.php?rou...product_id=264

I'm not sure that answers all of your questions other than to say yes to all of them. I'm just hoping to find a better solution that gets me maybe 2 or 3 or 4 years before I have to do it again? Maybe 50k or 75k miles? Maybe that's unrealistic but I'm encouraged by the Figs design & materials.

It's just the noise that irritates me for what I consider is the finest luxury sedan in the world. Second would be the thought of hearing it again anytime soon. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again....and expecting a different result?

LexusManny

Consumer Reports says the 2010 LS main problem is the suspension, so not bad for the 2010 LS.

I was thinking about ordering the ebay front upper and lower control arms, saving the original upper and lower control arms, and sending them to Figs to press new bushings. These would be my spares for when the ebay ones go bad.

This is something you might consider doing too. It gives you the ability to experiment with thequality of the ebay front control arms and have the originals ones fixed and ready in case you need them.

dal20402

My badly munged control arm bushings (6 of 8 arms bad, 2 good arms were in different places requiring replacement of all 8) caused the following symptoms:

1) Excess tire wear on inner edges
2) Repeatable clunk on hard braking
3) Occasional clunk on acceleration or cornering
4) Some amount of excess play in the steering

They also worsen momentary stresses on other suspension components, so could make the suspension somewhat more prone to failure.

Spartan8

Hi Lexus Manny,

That's a very good idea. I'll find out when Figs might have lower control arm bushings available and then use your plan. Right now, they only have bushings for the upper control arms. And I've got a pretty capable mechanic who is very inexpensive. And once the Ebay arms wear out, I can keep them as a spare with Figs bushings in them. I'm realizing that regardless of how superior the bushing is, it can not overcome a poor control arm design and the forces they create on the bushings. Your plan to have a primary and backup set, with fresh Figs bushings ready to go, is very appealing. Thanks for the novel idea.

superdenso

Does anyone have torque settings for the control arms and ball joints?

stopdrpnro

Any updates or feedback on any of this???

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

Stay far away from Armstrong PSB bushings, mine failed in two months and it took another 4 months to get them to send a new set

They refused to refund me and gave me the run around forever, atrocious experience , $1000 down the toilet

cochiseg

1WILLY1 is your 08 for sale by any chance? I saw an add mentionning armstrong bushings, the wording was now changed to "Front control arms just replaced at TLEX"

Pretty sure a few days/weeks ago the add would say it had Armstrong bushings (its a 08 LS with 125000 KM)

Doublebase

I’ll take it a step further, most of these arftermarket, and well, even OEM control arms/bushings aren’t going to last much more than 50,000 miles. It’s a poorly designed suspension geometry that places a lot of stress on the bushings. On the plus side, it doesn’t seem to put stress on ball joints or steering linkages. You almost never see a ball joint go bad on one of these cars, nor a tie rod end.

But yeah, unfortunately if you own one of these cars for more than 100,000 past the original control arms...you’ll probably be doing them twice. I’ve done them a few times. The uppers are so quick and easy that I almost consider them on the level of an oil change. Once you’ve done the uppers a couple of times they really are that simple. And those are the ones that take the most abuse. IMO

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

yes it used to say armstrong bushings, till they failed and i re-replaced them with beck arnley control arms

It is still for sale

Funny for me its my lowers that seem to fail, uppers have been fine

But 50 000 miles would be a dream for me i barely got 5000 out of mine