I might stop doing extended oil change intervals
11-25-15, 07:22 AM
#16
Instructor
I like this!
Actually, it was very difficult for me to go to 5K miles in lieu of 3K. But I did it because of the synthetic oil, and because the LS uses 9 quarts.
The OP's admittedly anecdotal report is just the sort of reason why I would never consider 10K miles.
Oil is still quite cheap. I change it myself so it doesn't cost a lot to change it.
Another good reason is that at 5K intervals, it gives me a good chance to look around under the car for other issues such as leaks, nails in the tires, suspension bushing condition, etc. At 10K miles, that would mean I'm only under the car twice a year.
Let's ask ourselves why the big car companies would so actively endorse these long interval oil changes. Here are some reasons.
1) They don't care if the engine wears out sooner. That's good for new car sales.
2) Fewer oil changes caters to the modern day customer's ideal of laziness in car ownership
3) Car makers pay an environmental fee for each car sold. The fee is based on a number of factors, including anticipated service costs (i.e. oil use and disposal) By extending the interval, it saves Toyota millions in reduced fees.
Blackstone....I haven't checked lately but back when all the 'oil analysis' companies sprung up, one of the big magazines ( I think Car & Driver) did a test of their own. They sent the same oil from the same engine to 4 or 5 different labs and the reports that came back were so varied they were essentially useless. From what I hear, there is a great deal of interpretation of test results needed to draw any conclusions. I avoid that sort of fracas by changing the oil every 5K.
The OP's admittedly anecdotal report is just the sort of reason why I would never consider 10K miles.
Oil is still quite cheap. I change it myself so it doesn't cost a lot to change it.
Another good reason is that at 5K intervals, it gives me a good chance to look around under the car for other issues such as leaks, nails in the tires, suspension bushing condition, etc. At 10K miles, that would mean I'm only under the car twice a year.
Let's ask ourselves why the big car companies would so actively endorse these long interval oil changes. Here are some reasons.
1) They don't care if the engine wears out sooner. That's good for new car sales.
2) Fewer oil changes caters to the modern day customer's ideal of laziness in car ownership
3) Car makers pay an environmental fee for each car sold. The fee is based on a number of factors, including anticipated service costs (i.e. oil use and disposal) By extending the interval, it saves Toyota millions in reduced fees.
Blackstone....I haven't checked lately but back when all the 'oil analysis' companies sprung up, one of the big magazines ( I think Car & Driver) did a test of their own. They sent the same oil from the same engine to 4 or 5 different labs and the reports that came back were so varied they were essentially useless. From what I hear, there is a great deal of interpretation of test results needed to draw any conclusions. I avoid that sort of fracas by changing the oil every 5K.
11-25-15, 09:57 AM
#17
I have heard that DI engines are prone to letting more fuel in the oil.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm
It has been touted as the automotive holy grail, the ultimate marriage of better performance and greater fuel economy. It’s the direct-injection (DI) engine, the latest technology designed to squeeze more mpg out of cars. And it has actually been delivering results.
For example, the Mazda3’s combined fuel economy jumped from 28 mpg in 2010 to 32 mpg in 2012 in our testing of the new Skyactiv engine. Other automakers have been using direct injection to add horsepower—the Cadillac CTS, for example, gained 34 hp—without any sacrifice in fuel economy.
Though direct injection is currently seen mostly on luxury vehicles or on mainstream cars as a higher-trim option (priced anywhere from a few hundred dollars to a couple of thousand), it could soon be within the means of more drivers as costs continue to come down.
But those engines are also having reliability problems, something that automakers are trying to keep quiet.
Not surprisingly, a number of readers have asked us about direct injection. Take Anestis Halkidis of North Kingstown, R.I.:
“I have a 2006 VW GLI with the 2.0T FSI engine with direct injection,” he wrote. “At around 80,000 miles, I went to the VW dealer to diagnose a check-engine light. It turns out that the intake valves had to be cleaned due to carbon deposits that were causing drivability issues.”
When his dealer failed to offer free work or any compensation, Halkidis took his car to a local VW shop that cleaned the valves by blasting them with walnut shells. (Yes, walnut shells; it’s a method used by BMW.) The cost to Halkidis was about $400.
So what’s up with direct injection?
First, a primer on how it works: By injecting gas*oline at high pressure directly into the engine’s combustion chamber, direct injection more precisely measures fuel than conventional fuel-injection systems or old-time carburetors.
The result is more complete combustion and cooler cylinder temperatures that enable a higher compression ratio for greater efficiency and power. Engine technology supplier Bosch says that direct injection can return a 15 percent gain in fuel economy while boosting low-end torque as much as 50 percent.
Combining direct injection with other technologies—such as turbocharging—can deliver even greater gains in economy and performance. That in turn enables carmakers to use smaller displacement engines, resulting in an efficiency snowball effect. Many automakers are marketing DI as providing fuel economy that’s almost as good as a hybrid’s, and with better performance—but without the $4,000 hybrid premium.
Although the breakthrough seems like a dream come true, an unwanted side effect has been emerging. Letter writers have complained to Consumer Reports and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) that over time DI can lead to clogged fuel systems and engine carbon buildup. The result can be engine hesitation and a loss of power—and the need for expensive repairs.
Some carmakers, including BMW and Kia, have issued technical service bulletins (TSBs) to their dealers recommending that drivers use only name-brand detergent gasoline—without ethanol additives—and that they periodically add a fuel-system cleaner when they refuel. (A TSB is an alert that the automaker sends to dealers to warn about ongoing problems with individual models and how to fix them. It may allow dealers to make repairs at little or no cost to the customer as a goodwill gesture.)
Other automakers have devised an engineering fix that works while the car is operating. It involves modifying the engine to spray a small amount of fuel directly onto the valves to help keep them clean.
It’s important to note that not all cars with direct injection experience long-term problems. But if your engine stumbles more than it used to, or it suddenly lacks power, ask your dealer about it. A fix may be available, and you may not have to pay for it.
For example, the Mazda3’s combined fuel economy jumped from 28 mpg in 2010 to 32 mpg in 2012 in our testing of the new Skyactiv engine. Other automakers have been using direct injection to add horsepower—the Cadillac CTS, for example, gained 34 hp—without any sacrifice in fuel economy.
Though direct injection is currently seen mostly on luxury vehicles or on mainstream cars as a higher-trim option (priced anywhere from a few hundred dollars to a couple of thousand), it could soon be within the means of more drivers as costs continue to come down.
But those engines are also having reliability problems, something that automakers are trying to keep quiet.
Not surprisingly, a number of readers have asked us about direct injection. Take Anestis Halkidis of North Kingstown, R.I.:
“I have a 2006 VW GLI with the 2.0T FSI engine with direct injection,” he wrote. “At around 80,000 miles, I went to the VW dealer to diagnose a check-engine light. It turns out that the intake valves had to be cleaned due to carbon deposits that were causing drivability issues.”
When his dealer failed to offer free work or any compensation, Halkidis took his car to a local VW shop that cleaned the valves by blasting them with walnut shells. (Yes, walnut shells; it’s a method used by BMW.) The cost to Halkidis was about $400.
So what’s up with direct injection?
First, a primer on how it works: By injecting gas*oline at high pressure directly into the engine’s combustion chamber, direct injection more precisely measures fuel than conventional fuel-injection systems or old-time carburetors.
The result is more complete combustion and cooler cylinder temperatures that enable a higher compression ratio for greater efficiency and power. Engine technology supplier Bosch says that direct injection can return a 15 percent gain in fuel economy while boosting low-end torque as much as 50 percent.
Combining direct injection with other technologies—such as turbocharging—can deliver even greater gains in economy and performance. That in turn enables carmakers to use smaller displacement engines, resulting in an efficiency snowball effect. Many automakers are marketing DI as providing fuel economy that’s almost as good as a hybrid’s, and with better performance—but without the $4,000 hybrid premium.
Although the breakthrough seems like a dream come true, an unwanted side effect has been emerging. Letter writers have complained to Consumer Reports and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) that over time DI can lead to clogged fuel systems and engine carbon buildup. The result can be engine hesitation and a loss of power—and the need for expensive repairs.
Some carmakers, including BMW and Kia, have issued technical service bulletins (TSBs) to their dealers recommending that drivers use only name-brand detergent gasoline—without ethanol additives—and that they periodically add a fuel-system cleaner when they refuel. (A TSB is an alert that the automaker sends to dealers to warn about ongoing problems with individual models and how to fix them. It may allow dealers to make repairs at little or no cost to the customer as a goodwill gesture.)
Other automakers have devised an engineering fix that works while the car is operating. It involves modifying the engine to spray a small amount of fuel directly onto the valves to help keep them clean.
It’s important to note that not all cars with direct injection experience long-term problems. But if your engine stumbles more than it used to, or it suddenly lacks power, ask your dealer about it. A fix may be available, and you may not have to pay for it.
11-25-15, 10:31 AM
#18
Actually, it was very difficult for me to go to 5K miles in lieu of 3K. But I did it because of the synthetic oil, and because the LS uses 9 quarts.
The OP's admittedly anecdotal report is just the sort of reason why I would never consider 10K miles.
Oil is still quite cheap. I change it myself so it doesn't cost a lot to change it.
Another good reason is that at 5K intervals, it gives me a good chance to look around under the car for other issues such as leaks, nails in the tires, suspension bushing condition, etc. At 10K miles, that would mean I'm only under the car twice a year.
Let's ask ourselves why the big car companies would so actively endorse these long interval oil changes. Here are some reasons.
1) They don't care if the engine wears out sooner. That's good for new car sales.
2) Fewer oil changes caters to the modern day customer's ideal of laziness in car ownership
3) Car makers pay an environmental fee for each car sold. The fee is based on a number of factors, including anticipated service costs (i.e. oil use and disposal) By extending the interval, it saves Toyota millions in reduced fees.
Blackstone....I haven't checked lately but back when all the 'oil analysis' companies sprung up, one of the big magazines ( I think Car & Driver) did a test of their own. They sent the same oil from the same engine to 4 or 5 different labs and the reports that came back were so varied they were essentially useless. From what I hear, there is a great deal of interpretation of test results needed to draw any conclusions. I avoid that sort of fracas by changing the oil every 5K.
The OP's admittedly anecdotal report is just the sort of reason why I would never consider 10K miles.
Oil is still quite cheap. I change it myself so it doesn't cost a lot to change it.
Another good reason is that at 5K intervals, it gives me a good chance to look around under the car for other issues such as leaks, nails in the tires, suspension bushing condition, etc. At 10K miles, that would mean I'm only under the car twice a year.
Let's ask ourselves why the big car companies would so actively endorse these long interval oil changes. Here are some reasons.
1) They don't care if the engine wears out sooner. That's good for new car sales.
2) Fewer oil changes caters to the modern day customer's ideal of laziness in car ownership
3) Car makers pay an environmental fee for each car sold. The fee is based on a number of factors, including anticipated service costs (i.e. oil use and disposal) By extending the interval, it saves Toyota millions in reduced fees.
Blackstone....I haven't checked lately but back when all the 'oil analysis' companies sprung up, one of the big magazines ( I think Car & Driver) did a test of their own. They sent the same oil from the same engine to 4 or 5 different labs and the reports that came back were so varied they were essentially useless. From what I hear, there is a great deal of interpretation of test results needed to draw any conclusions. I avoid that sort of fracas by changing the oil every 5K.
If you don't that's perfectly fine because it would be a hard thing to prove in the absence of evidence if there is a conspiracy. Could you kindly tell me that all of the peer reviewed papers from engineers who performed tests concluded that frequent oil changes cause more wear then extended oil changes are wrong when it's a fleet industry norm to perform extended oil changes.
Would you say most ignorant consumers today that get their cars serviced from the dealers don't get factory oil changes because they don't follow manufacturer's recommendations or do they get their oil changed when the reminder light is illuminated. Would you say a BMW that has 15k oil changes will not last past 50k miles because it now has three times the wear.
Have you known anyone that has performed factory recommended oil changes and had their engines go south as a result.
Once I started performing factory recommended oil changes on all my cars I have not had one issue. One car has 130k and the other 150k. The oil analysis that I have seen and what the experts say in regard to fresh oil causing more wear because of frequent oil changes is what changed my mind. It was cemented when I did 15k mile oil changes on the BMW with great results.
I do not agree with indiscriminate extended oil changes. Case in point that BMW specifies A3 rated oil. The other extreme is that ignorant consumers don't use approved oils.
So unless there is a well thought out conspiracy by the industry I would like some proof rather than outdated myths that don't apply to modern engine oil that is used in a modern car.
The 3k oil change was necessary long ago because of the quality of oil, engine design and above all else lead contamination from regular fuel.
More people today perform factory oil changes (which some consider extended) than those that prematurely change their oil because of the oil change light.
All of the oil consumption issues from certain manufacturers turned out to be a design flaw not an oil change interval issue.
If there was a problem it would have surfaced and become widespread leading to a disaster on a monumental scale but it hasn't and therefore an absence of evidence.
So to recap. Most people are not performing extended oil changes, they are performing factory oil changes. Those that change their oil at 3k miles are prematurely changing their oil and creating slightly more wear according to the engineers. If you want to change your oil early more power to you and maybe one day you will say the hell with it and change your oil at 7500 miles five years from now when the industry calls for 15k mile oil changes with the same rationale you used for extending it to 5k miles.
Last edited by Devh; 11-25-15 at 11:14 AM.
11-25-15, 10:36 AM
#19
I have heard that DI engines are prone to letting more fuel in the oil.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm
11-25-15, 10:51 AM
#20
I have heard that DI engines are prone to letting more fuel in the oil.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm
Our cars do not have these issues stated in the link because we have the engineering fix.
Other automakers have devised an engineering fix that works while the car is oper*ating. It involves modifying the engine to spray a small amount of fuel directly onto the valves to help keep them clean.
Last edited by Devh; 11-25-15 at 01:01 PM.
11-25-15, 11:10 AM
#21
That is why I post published articles that quote industry experts and engineers. I have also posted white papers written and peered reviewed by engineers. These engineers belong to the automotive society of engineers where their recommendations are followed for fleet vehicles that actually do extended oil changes as a norm.
I just wish for once someone can link an article from an Lubricant specialist or an industry insider that says otherwise. The Toyota engineers are not stupid.
All I ever get in return is some mechanic, father, dealer or some guy on another forum told me so.
This is the same reasoning bloodletting was allowed to continue before and after the age of enlightenment.
Last edited by Devh; 11-25-15 at 11:34 AM.
11-25-15, 11:30 AM
#22
I have one last thing to post which is an incredible innovation made by "real engineers", you know the guys that build bridges.
Briggs and Stratton would not bet the farm in engine repairs unless they had the technology to do so.
Their new engine never needs an oil change.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/...ush-mowers/exi
Briggs and Stratton would not bet the farm in engine repairs unless they had the technology to do so.
Their new engine never needs an oil change.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/...ush-mowers/exi
There are two major reasons consumers usually need to change their oil:
Debris has gotten into the oil, causing it to get dirty, and dirty oil causes wear on the engine
And through regular running of the engine, the oil heats up, causing it to breakdown and create sludge.
The Briggs & Stratton EXi engine uses an automotive style paper air cleaner element that features a press-fit element design to keep dirt out of the engine. And an improved oil fill tube with extended flange protects the tube from debris during routine oil checks.
Additionally, the Overhead Valve Design of the EXi engine, and its innovative scroll design and cooling package, means the engine runs cooler, reducing the oil temperature. And cooler oil means slower decay and breakdown of the oil.
Briggs & Stratton EXi Series Engines. Engines made easy. Just Check & Add. Never Change the Oil.
Debris has gotten into the oil, causing it to get dirty, and dirty oil causes wear on the engine
And through regular running of the engine, the oil heats up, causing it to breakdown and create sludge.
The Briggs & Stratton EXi engine uses an automotive style paper air cleaner element that features a press-fit element design to keep dirt out of the engine. And an improved oil fill tube with extended flange protects the tube from debris during routine oil checks.
Additionally, the Overhead Valve Design of the EXi engine, and its innovative scroll design and cooling package, means the engine runs cooler, reducing the oil temperature. And cooler oil means slower decay and breakdown of the oil.
Briggs & Stratton EXi Series Engines. Engines made easy. Just Check & Add. Never Change the Oil.
11-25-15, 05:04 PM
#23
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Actually, it was very difficult for me to go to 5K miles in lieu of 3K. But I did it because of the synthetic oil, and because the LS uses 9 quarts.
The OP's admittedly anecdotal report is just the sort of reason why I would never consider 10K miles.
Oil is still quite cheap. I change it myself so it doesn't cost a lot to change it.
Another good reason is that at 5K intervals, it gives me a good chance to look around under the car for other issues such as leaks, nails in the tires, suspension bushing condition, etc. At 10K miles, that would mean I'm only under the car twice a year.
Let's ask ourselves why the big car companies would so actively endorse these long interval oil changes. Here are some reasons.
1) They don't care if the engine wears out sooner. That's good for new car sales.
2) Fewer oil changes caters to the modern day customer's ideal of laziness in car ownership
3) Car makers pay an environmental fee for each car sold. The fee is based on a number of factors, including anticipated service costs (i.e. oil use and disposal) By extending the interval, it saves Toyota millions in reduced fees.
Blackstone....I haven't checked lately but back when all the 'oil analysis' companies sprung up, one of the big magazines ( I think Car & Driver) did a test of their own. They sent the same oil from the same engine to 4 or 5 different labs and the reports that came back were so varied they were essentially useless. From what I hear, there is a great deal of interpretation of test results needed to draw any conclusions. I avoid that sort of fracas by changing the oil every 5K.
The OP's admittedly anecdotal report is just the sort of reason why I would never consider 10K miles.
Oil is still quite cheap. I change it myself so it doesn't cost a lot to change it.
Another good reason is that at 5K intervals, it gives me a good chance to look around under the car for other issues such as leaks, nails in the tires, suspension bushing condition, etc. At 10K miles, that would mean I'm only under the car twice a year.
Let's ask ourselves why the big car companies would so actively endorse these long interval oil changes. Here are some reasons.
1) They don't care if the engine wears out sooner. That's good for new car sales.
2) Fewer oil changes caters to the modern day customer's ideal of laziness in car ownership
3) Car makers pay an environmental fee for each car sold. The fee is based on a number of factors, including anticipated service costs (i.e. oil use and disposal) By extending the interval, it saves Toyota millions in reduced fees.
Blackstone....I haven't checked lately but back when all the 'oil analysis' companies sprung up, one of the big magazines ( I think Car & Driver) did a test of their own. They sent the same oil from the same engine to 4 or 5 different labs and the reports that came back were so varied they were essentially useless. From what I hear, there is a great deal of interpretation of test results needed to draw any conclusions. I avoid that sort of fracas by changing the oil every 5K.
The problem I'm finding with cars now is their piston rings - this is turning into an issue on a surprising number of brands recently. Honda and Subaru have been hit by that bug, along with GM...I'm sure there are others. The never ending quest for fuel economy has now found it's way into engine defects...they were so concerned with loosening the ring tension to decrease resistance that (and improve fuel economy), that the rings couldn't do their jobs.
I've also worked in fleets, in one particular fleet we extended the oil change interval to 7k miles...not one of us at the time would do that to our own cars. You have to understand most cars in fleets are sent to auction after they reach 150k miles, because at that point all the other things start to break, it becomes cost prohibitive to keep them. The engine easily should make it that far on 7k mile oil changes, but if you're planning on going long...really long?? I'm not sure it's the best idea.
Many on here have changed my thinking on extended oil change intervals - like I said - where I work I am a minority in terms of extended changes, but I'm starting to think my engine doesn't like it. It performs great during the first 5,000, then it starts to drink the oil. Is that a coincidence? That the oil change interval is supposed to be 5k, and anything after that the engine loves to use the oil, but before the 5k, nothing? I don't know. What I'll probably do is keep it between 5-7k miles.
Last edited by Doublebase; 11-25-15 at 05:09 PM.
11-25-15, 05:25 PM
#24
Oil dilution is just something I am starting to learn about. Obviously, if you are burning quarts of oil it's not a good thing
I believe this issue affects turbo engines more then non. Just search for it too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1966656
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01679X15000432
http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/...g%20Hurdle.pdf
I believe this issue affects turbo engines more then non. Just search for it too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1966656
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01679X15000432
http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/...g%20Hurdle.pdf
Last edited by Lexuslsguy; 11-25-15 at 05:37 PM.
11-25-15, 05:41 PM
#25
Oil dilution is just something I am starting to lear about. Obviously, if you are burning courts of oil it's not a good thing
I believe this issue affects turbo engines more then non. Just search for it too.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01679X15000432
http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/...g%20Hurdle.pdf
I believe this issue affects turbo engines more then non. Just search for it too.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01679X15000432
http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/...g%20Hurdle.pdf
11-25-15, 05:47 PM
#26
Speak of emissions this is interesting.
In 2013, a research by TÜV NORD found that although gasoline direct injection engines dramatically reduce CO2 emissions, they release about 1,000 times more particles classified by the World Health Organization as harmful than traditional petrol engines and 10 times more than new diesel engines. The release happens because direct injection results in uneven burning of fuel due to uneven mixing of fuel and air (stratification) and because direct injection engines operate with a higher pressure in their cylinders than the older engines.
This pollution can be prevented with a relatively inexpensive filter that can significantly reduce the emissions of particles. However, fitting the filter is not mandatory yet.[72]
This pollution can be prevented with a relatively inexpensive filter that can significantly reduce the emissions of particles. However, fitting the filter is not mandatory yet.[72]
11-25-15, 06:09 PM
#27
Devh, I don't have time to parse you long list of questions...but let's boil it down to a few responses:
1) You are free to do what you wish with vehicles you own. Myself? 5K miles.
2) I never said there is 3X the wear with an extended oil change. That's your figure. I do know there is 'more' wear
(it is statistically impossible that there isn't) and I don't want to find out for myself how much is 'more'.
3) Most factory maintenance guides show extended intervals as OK under 'normal' conditions - then they proceed
to list almost every real world condition as exceptional. So which do you choose to follow? I err on the side of
conservatism.
4) There is one unarguable truth - unless I happen to fail to tighten the drain plug, a 5K interval can only be better,
not worse, than a 7.5K, 10K, or 15K interval.
Oil changes are a topic which 'real engineers' backed by 'real research' can quickly start staring at their navels. It's really a simple matter, no need for complexity. At a little over 1 penny per mile, I 'feed' my engine with excellent and fresh oil. My 5K oil changes are cheap, ensure my engine's longevity, and even help keep our nation's oil producers in business. It's a smart move all around. The only white paper I need is on a roll in the bathroom.
1) You are free to do what you wish with vehicles you own. Myself? 5K miles.
2) I never said there is 3X the wear with an extended oil change. That's your figure. I do know there is 'more' wear
(it is statistically impossible that there isn't) and I don't want to find out for myself how much is 'more'.
3) Most factory maintenance guides show extended intervals as OK under 'normal' conditions - then they proceed
to list almost every real world condition as exceptional. So which do you choose to follow? I err on the side of
conservatism.
4) There is one unarguable truth - unless I happen to fail to tighten the drain plug, a 5K interval can only be better,
not worse, than a 7.5K, 10K, or 15K interval.
Oil changes are a topic which 'real engineers' backed by 'real research' can quickly start staring at their navels. It's really a simple matter, no need for complexity. At a little over 1 penny per mile, I 'feed' my engine with excellent and fresh oil. My 5K oil changes are cheap, ensure my engine's longevity, and even help keep our nation's oil producers in business. It's a smart move all around. The only white paper I need is on a roll in the bathroom.
11-25-15, 06:11 PM
#28
Oil dilution is just something I am starting to learn about. Obviously, if you are burning quarts of oil it's not a good thing
I believe this issue affects turbo engines more then non. Just search for it too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1966656
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01679X15000432
http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/...g%20Hurdle.pdf
I believe this issue affects turbo engines more then non. Just search for it too.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1966656
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01679X15000432
http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/...g%20Hurdle.pdf
Regarding our vehicles I believe a lot of the emissions as well as the soot issues are addressed with the technology of using both port and direct injection acting independently and overlapping to address the pitfalls of DI only engines. In addition to this the oil quality though it's formulation is also important to limit the formation of soot which I believe Toyota has addressed.
11-25-15, 06:30 PM
#29
Devh, I don't have time to parse you long list of questions...but let's boil it down to a few responses:
1) You are free to do what you wish with vehicles you own. Myself? 5K miles.
2) I never said there is 3X the wear with an extended oil change. That's your figure. I do know there is 'more' wear
(it is statistically impossible that there isn't) and I don't want to find out for myself how much is 'more'.
3) Most factory maintenance guides show extended intervals as OK under 'normal' conditions - then they proceed
to list almost every real world condition as exceptional. So which do you choose to follow? I err on the side of
conservatism.
4) There is one unarguable truth - unless I happen to fail to tighten the drain plug, a 5K interval can only be better,
not worse, than a 7.5K, 10K, or 15K interval.
Oil changes are a topic which 'real engineers' backed by 'real research' can quickly start staring at their navels. It's really a simple matter, no need for complexity. At a little over 1 penny per mile, I 'feed' my engine with excellent and fresh oil. My 5K oil changes are cheap, ensure my engine's longevity, and even help keep our nation's oil producers in business. It's a smart move all around. The only white paper I need is on a roll in the bathroom.
1) You are free to do what you wish with vehicles you own. Myself? 5K miles.
2) I never said there is 3X the wear with an extended oil change. That's your figure. I do know there is 'more' wear
(it is statistically impossible that there isn't) and I don't want to find out for myself how much is 'more'.
3) Most factory maintenance guides show extended intervals as OK under 'normal' conditions - then they proceed
to list almost every real world condition as exceptional. So which do you choose to follow? I err on the side of
conservatism.
4) There is one unarguable truth - unless I happen to fail to tighten the drain plug, a 5K interval can only be better,
not worse, than a 7.5K, 10K, or 15K interval.
Oil changes are a topic which 'real engineers' backed by 'real research' can quickly start staring at their navels. It's really a simple matter, no need for complexity. At a little over 1 penny per mile, I 'feed' my engine with excellent and fresh oil. My 5K oil changes are cheap, ensure my engine's longevity, and even help keep our nation's oil producers in business. It's a smart move all around. The only white paper I need is on a roll in the bathroom.
If I showed you a peered reviewed paper that concluded that premature oil changes creates more wear would it still be an unarguable truth?
I do agree that oil needs to be changed at the right interval which is one that is determined by the manufacturers recommendations which tends to be on the conservative side to account for real world conditions.
The major factor here is that it does not apply to all oil. Toyota specifies synthetic oil with the right additive package to make that 10k run.
BMW specifies A3 rated oil to go the distance. Without following the manufacturer's specifications regarding approved oils is where people end up in trouble.
Last edited by Devh; 11-25-15 at 06:44 PM.
11-25-15, 07:51 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
The major factor here is that it does not apply to all oil. Toyota specifies synthetic oil with the right additive package to make that 10k run.
BMW specifies A3 rated oil to go the distance. Without following the manufacturer's specifications regarding approved oils is where people end up in trouble.
BMW specifies A3 rated oil to go the distance. Without following the manufacturer's specifications regarding approved oils is where people end up in trouble.
But as already stated. DO WHAT MAKES YOU sleep better. Heck, there are some who still swear that 3k mile OCI's is the norm and quick lube places LOVE those customers.
I'm looking forward to my 10k mile oil analysis. I'm just a couple hundred miles short of doing that in the next week or so. Based on my 8k mile report, I expect good things. We'll see....
Last edited by roadfrog; 11-25-15 at 08:00 PM.