lexus600hl

Wise choice!

SW17LS

Come talk to me when your 5 Series or your Jaguars are 8 years old and have 100k miles like your Lexus. The issue is not reliability when they are new, or during the warranty period...its afterwards. I know a lot of people with BMWs, 5 Series, 7 Series, X5s, etc and when they get over about 50k miles thats when they start having significant expensive issues. I have a friend with an X5 and a 335 and both of them needed $5k worth of work before they crested 60k. That just doesn't happen with a Lexus.

Jaguar I don't have as much experience with, but I don't have a lot of reasons to be confident.

When buying new or leasing, if you intend to trade them before 50k miles I wouldn't worry about reliability between all of these big luxury cars, but if you're going to buy a used one or you want to keep whatever you buy 10 years...there is no evidence out there that doesn't point to the LS being SIGNIFICANTLY more reliable and less expensive to repair and maintain.

What Cadillac was that?!? I've driven all the recent Cadillac and nothing they sell rides nearly as well as an LS. Not even close.

They all have their plusses and minuses. I just drove all of them minus the S Class because it was out of my price range, and the new 7 wasn't out but I drove the previous 7.

The LS still has a creamy ride and a silence inside that is never really 100% replicated in the other cars. The XJ rides really well, perhaps a little better, but its not as quiet, and Jaguar's infotainment is really terrible...even compared to Lexus which is pretty terrible compared to BMW, Audi or Mercedes. Probably what kept me out of an XJ (insane deals on the XJ) was the infotainment...and I'm not even an infotainment guy (the Lexus system is fine to me). It is a beautiful car, no doubt.

The A8 is really nice inside, but outside some of the proportions don't do it for me on the refresh car, and for the money I'd be in a 6 cyl vs the V8 in the LS. More athletic than the LS, but definitely doesn't ride as well and isn't as quiet. Again, I'd be in 6 cyl power.

The outgoing 7 IMHO was a huge letdown. Didn't ride especially well, yet didn't feel much more athletic than the Lexus, the Audi was a much better balance. I've sat in the new one but haven't driven it. Inside and out its a big improvement over the 2015 7.

So for me, my preference in this class (new) is S550 (really is the class leader no doubt), LS, A8, XJ, 7. The XJ is as low as it is just because of the infotainment. Bear in mind I have not driven the new 7.

lexus600hl

I don't recall which cadillac it was. It was a rental.
I doubt if the new 7 is that much better than the prior 7. The new 7 looks very similar to the prior7 - both of which, in my opinion, have a dated design look.
As I wrote, my 535xi is very trouble free.

In my opinion, the best bang for the buck is the xjl. I paid $70k + taxes for a xj listing at $86k, due to a factory $10k rebate! And it was the Long wheel base! Nothing else comes close to it.. bang for the buck! $78k, including taxes and 100k factory warranty! The only thing is - I can't stand it's turbo noise! Very annoying to me!

As you can see, in my profile pics, I had two LS600HL Nieman Marcus edition. I sold one. The nieman marcus edition really stood out - because of its wheels!
In my office parking lot, my ls600HL, my LS 460L and my XJL are usually parked right next to each other..
Everyone comments only the the XJL.
Of course, the LS600hl also used to get compliments, years ago.. Frankly, even now, it looks like a brand new car.. The paint on it seems special and looks brand new..
But everyone comments about the XJL and it really does stand out.
I think, from "curb appeal", the jaguar XJL seems to equal the S class. Most people don't realize that the jaguar xjl is much cheaper than the S class! They think that they both are in the same league.

I am not a fan of the infotainment system of any of these cars. Each has its own quirks. Ideally, I would like a bluetooth video link from my phone to the car's display, so that I can operate Waze or google maps on the car's screen, using my phone's data. I have driven the A8. It drives fine - as good as any other in this league. It has google maps, which makes it slightlymore convenient. BMW has operator assisted destination, which is convenient - they download the destination via message to your car. I liked the BMW service. The lexus link, from years ago, was also fine. I don't recall subscribing to it for the ls 600s

Of course, the LS is the most quiet. The LS was ahead of it's competitors, in 1989 - for refinement of engine and transmission and ride quality.. I hated my 2000 S class - sluggish car!
By 2007, all manufacturers caught up with the Lexus. Now I find all of these cars to be very refined and fun to drive.. Each has a different personality - an individual choice of preference, of course.

It is because of the styling, (or lack thereof!), that I will no longer buy or use an LS. The two I have, I gave to my employees.. they love them of course.

PS: I can appreciate that many people like the "creamy" or the soft ride of the LS. The European cars have a bit more "road feel". I like both types of rides just fine.. Maybe because I used so many of the LS cars, that I am now leaning towards a bit more firm ride - not that it is better or worse - just different. I think the S550 has the best combination of soft/comfort and road feel. It really is an amazing car!

SW17LS

Its MUCH nicer inside. Very high quality, excellent design and tech. I don't think the exterior is unattractive its just a little plain depending on the trim. The S Class is too IMHO, it needs the sport appearance package as al MBs do.

Still new. Wait and see.

Like I said, great deals out there on them. Great deals on the LS too, but not as good. The XJ is a very slow seller. No joke...you can still find new 2014 XJs.

For me the killer was the V6 powertrain feeling and sounding a little unrefined as you mentioned, the biggest was the infotainment. It also is a little ostentatious for my line of work, the Lexus is good in this regard.

The issue is that the S Class is everywhere while the XJ is pretty rare. I see at least 2-3 latest gen S Classes a day. I maybe see two XJs a month.

Its harder for people to be wowed by something they see all the time.

Of course it drives fine, its just not as smooth and refined as the LS. Its a much more dynamic car.

Lexus has the same feature, Destination Assist. I used it today.

lexus600hl

I just remembered.. My 2007 LS 460L, gave me a lot of trouble! Wind noise was one. Another was - it would not shift out of auto hold! I had an accident once -because the guy behind me assumed that I was moving ahead on green light.. the car simply went into part, when I hit the gas and he bumped me.. poor fellow - he got the ticket but it was not really his fault.. It took several visits and several talks with the factory to fix that problem.. I am writing this - just in case some of you are experiencing the same problem with 2007. I didn't keep that care very long. Lexus was very gracious in taking it back as a lemon.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

Well said!. I believe Lexus reliability (models after 2005) and European models' unreliability are bit over stated......

Rhambler

I don't think any car is infallible, Toyotas, Hondas or what have you.

I've personally gone through a lot of brands and can only speak from experience, but the "problems" that might be experienced here and at Acura are, from my experience, not as bad as the "problems" experienced elsewhere.

Acura had bad suspensions on their RLs. The culprit: everyone said it was a heavy car and it is at over 4,000 lbs. Lexus is the same I guess.

First-year RLs of the second generation had some problems, as with most first-year of any generation of any car. Most were worked out by the third year.

But, the biggest difference is that these cars didn't leave me stranded versus my limp-mode BMW. Just glitches, tiny glitches in sensors mind you, but enough to force that thing into limp-mode more times than I care to remember.

I would gladly take problems that are a nuisance versus one that forced that car into limp-mode or left me stranded somewhere because of a measly $25 sensor that will cost me $400 to replace.

That feeling, that unnerving feeling of uncertainty is the absolute worst. Especially embarrassing if you have a guest in the car, which happened. I just don't feel that way in this nor did I in my Acura and my Acura never left me stranded or in "limp-mode." Knock on wood.

greg3852

Sounds like the parking brake engaged after 3 min.

lexus600hl

Thanks. In addition, even the mid price cars like the Camry, Subaru Legacy, Accord and passat have excellent drive trains and ride. I didn't own a Legacy but I still have a new Camry and Passat. While the camry is very floaty, it too is very refined. The passat also is an excellent car. The only unacceptable car I have been in are some of the Chrysler products (it was a couple of years ago).. But other than that, Lexus started a revolution by putting other manufacturers to shame and setting new bench marks, across its wide price spectrum.
Camry benefits from being the ES, the Passat from the A6 etc.
Other than using the high end cars, as a status symbol, I actually enjoy as well, my passat or camry - especially knowing that they cost me only 20 cents/mile Vs $1.25 to $2/mile for the large luxury sedans!
Even if bought used, the big luxury cars are costing around $1/mile, just in depreciation.
Some day, when I am really rich, I will simply buy a used Hyundai Equus and won't worry about status symbols!

ps: Also.. remember that Lexus and Infinity started "guest service" type of service.. In 2000, mercedes service was either rude or indifferent - as if saying "you are lucky to be driving a mercedes".. Credit goes to both Lexus and Infinity for starting this customer satisfaction driven service experience! Now, all others seem to offer the same thing - Manufacturers are holding the delaers' feet to the fire, with feed back.. My jaguar service guy, whom I have never even met - is extremely nice and pleads with me for a 10 score! They pick up my jaguars from my house, leave a loaner, service them and drop them back! Lexus used to do that in the beginning.. now they stopped.

lexus600hl

It was a traffic light stop. Are they 3 mins? It was some sort of defect. It was difficult to replicate but they eventually identified it and fixed it.

greg3852

I've had it happen twice at lights that are almost never that long. But yes it's 3 min from what I remember.

It sets the parking brake and it will freak you out when you hit the gas and the back end just sinks down and doesn't move. If you floor it, it will drag itself but not recommended.

SW17LS

That hasn't been my real world experience at all, and there is no statistical data out there that would support that statement.

I know a LOT of people with luxury cars, I don't know anybody that has a BMW or Mercedes over 50-60k miles that hasn't had any significant problems, including die hard owners of those cars who continue to buy new ones despite that. Whereas I know many people with Lexus vehicles that old that have had no significant problems.

Just because they drive well and ride well doesn't mean they are replacements for or drive as well as a flagship luxury car, because they aren't and they don't. Cars in general are a lot better now than they used to be, but there still is not parity among price classes.

FYI also, the A6 is not a Passat.

All of this stuff depends on the dealer. There are several Lexus dealers here that still do this.

riknchar

It is VERY unnerving when this happens! It was a fairly common occurrence on my 2011 LS460, anytime I sat at lights that were longer than average. It's funny, but I've never had it happen on my 2008 LS600hL... I wonder if the 3-minute lock wasn't done on the earlier models, or if the amount of time required before the lock kicked in was longer on the earlier models? Must be one or the other...

greg3852

My dealer is an hour away and will send someone down to pick up the car for service. I just prefer to go there myself so I can test drive some cars.

First time the parking brake went on at a light I was so confused. People behind me were honking and it took me almost a min to go oh yea...

satiger

iTrader: (1)

Respect your opinion/ view. However, I have disagree on this statement. No one here saying European cars are more reliable than Lexus. The question is, did Lexus improve their quality/reliability advantage that they built around 80s/90s into further or remain the same or even worse to drop compare to their own set standards?.

Did European manufacturers (eg MB) improve their engineering to catch-up with Japanese manufacturers (eg Lexus) on reliability/dependability or remain the same as in 80s/90s?.

The statistical data out there shows European manufactures did close the gap with Lexus. I have compiled JD Power VDS data. Similarly, in one other thread I provided data / info showing how Toyota's (Lexus) quality slip in 2000s that includes a study by MIT.