Devh

I have become cynical from my own experience after having to work on cars that have seen the dealer. I have seen shortcuts that were taken that shouldn't have and missing bolts and connectors.
What cemented my cynicism is knowing from a mechanic what goes on at well respected dealership . Most customers will never know or even understand when a loose harness comes undone because not all of the clips were used to hold it in place that gave way to electrical issues.
Having said that I will still get work from a dealer or independent but I will go over the work. I will even re -torque the lug nuts because I can assure you they don't use a torque wrench, they use impact wrenches to tighten everything to save time. There is something to be said of the quality of work and how the car holds up over time.
I have seen my own shortcuts and carelessness of trying to remove something to get to the problem only to have it bite me much later on and if I hadn't done the work I wouldn't have been wiser. Over tightening the oil filter and drain bolt are examples.

It's not just the mechanics that have become complacent the owners have too.

Vansibel

Dealership run a business and need to make money, and in the long run customer loyalty bring more business. Toyota understood that principle and now it's the largest car manufacturer in the world. Peoples still buy their car even if other manufacturer beat them on features. I get the impression many dealers are pushing dangerously far their assumption that they can get away with everything because anyway people will still buying their car because they are Toyota's. Most dealer are owned by investors, not passionate peoples. They want volume and quick bucks. They don't take pride in their work and most of them own a wide range of car brand. Like sdwtchlvr said, it's when a problem arise that you see their true color and how they handle service. I am deeply disgusted at the amount of bull**** I heard from several dealers over here. I would like to own another LS, but I'm willing to give up on a brand even if their product are good if their own dealership just taint the whole experience. When I see my car delivered with missing seatbelts, trim hanging down and grease all over the place they touched, getting lied about the suspension needing calibration, make you wonder how they handled the part you cannot see... The pursuit of perfection don't hold up if when the dealer take your car apart and put it back together it misses parts, bolts, and skip steps all around. It's not the same car anymore and is just getting worse after each visit.

Devh

Great points. I will also add that I would have no problem with having my car serviced in Japan because I truly believe they have a culture of good workmanship not for the owner but a sense of duty to themselves.
They implemented this philosophy in the Marysville Ohio Honda plant and the cars they produce is first rate because they get it right.

What is tarnishing Toyota's reputation is their franchise networks where individual dealerships in America run the show without stringent oversight from them.
I don't blame the mechanic, it's often middle management trying to make a buck by deception then actual quality control and earning a reputation.
I forgot to mention that I worked in a dealership in my youth transporting cars and I knew what went on in the kitchen, it's disgusting.

7milesout

Devh - The Toyota plants that I frequented, they also bust their hump to get it right. And they do. Compared to the Hyundai plant where the saying was, "Don't be a squealer, ship it to the dealer!" In both cases, the "Sales & Service" side of the business is what taints the product, exactly and Vansibel is dealing with.

I would really love to see the difference in repair performance between a typical Japanese dealership and a typical American dealership. If the differences were poured over with a fine tooth come, I think it would be a real eye opener.


7milesout

Devh

It's not even an Asian thing, it's an nationality thing. Some companies in Germany and the Czech Republic have outstanding attention to detail and quality. As an example the company Lecia came to the verge of bankruptcy twice because they cared more about the quality of their lenses as a craft of personal achievement rather then trying to make a buck. These are companies I like to buy from because they fulfill their mission statement.

I think America also has that great sense of quality from small businesses especially in the niche hobby industry but sadly the service industry has been destroyed by middle management who are completely out of touch.

charlesc

Mine sold me LS 460,2009, 3 days ago. Complained about fuel smell in cabin and outside.Said they checked it out. Wrong. Gas tank exploded on me & Fire dept. 2 days ago. Fuel pressure leak not fixed by 2 previous recalls. They have had it 48 hours hours still no resolution. Lexus.com talking about taking car back. I'll believe that when pigs fly!

charlesc

Forgot to mention the clincher. Fire Marshal will impound my brand new car if problem not fixed!

SW17LS

The gas tank "exploded" on you and the fire marshall? What was the fire marshall doing there with you at the time of the "explosion"? Was the car physically on fire? If thats the case...why is it being "repaired" at the dealership, if the gas tank "exploded" and the car was on fire...we're talking about a fire loss here not a warranty repair.

Just to be clear...its not a brand new car its 6 years old. I point that out for a reason, there seems to be a misconception that used Lexus vehicles are as reliable and problem free as brand new Lexus vehicles, and thats just not the case always. That car has been out on the road for 6 years, you have no idea how its been cared for, maintained, etc.

Assuming it hasn't been on fire...the dealer has it, they're working on it and talking about buying it back even. 48 hours is not an unreasonable amount of time to be waiting on a resolution for something strange and unusual like this. Not sure what else the dealer can do in this situation.

Devh

I think we are being trolled. Not just this post but the other one where the brakes went to the floor post. It's clearly someone with inside knowledge to some of the problems we have and then taking it to the extreme for attention.
In both cases the other posts are there to legitimize themselves but it has absolutely no tangibility. If your car blew up the last thing you would do is make another post right after for a minor issue.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...ml#post9183918

SW17LS

I think you may be correct.

He references it being "new" again in that thread too lol

Devh

I have seen this on other forums. They will try to post on multiple threads to legitimize themselves, even post pictures of their supposed car that is pulled of the internet that has no metadata.
What gives them away is being stupid because normal people wouldn't waste their time.

charlesc

I AM NOT A TROLLER!
Geese!
Not all explosions involve fire.
Did you ever watch "Breaking Bad"?
It was about 1 to 2 thousand psi of gas fumes shooting out the gas cap before he even totally unscrewed it.
Captain was 300 lbs. with suit on.
He was knocked back on his butt from the blast.
If any one of us had been smoking we'd all be dead or burned.
Fortunately no spark existed.
Have you ever seen pictures of the first Atomic bomb?
It wasn't the fireball so much as the shock wave of the blast that did the most widespread damage.
As to my quote of "new". I know you are lifelong veterans of Lexus, and new to you means 2016.
But for me, a dreamer of owning what I have always considered to be the best car in the world, but beyond my meagre salary. It is new! For me personally. I have MS. Got 5 yrs. at most left.
I convinced the wife that no more mini vans or SUV's, I need the car of my dreams! She understood that I had forsaken so much in 45 years - I was due. Besides my retirement fund is making 0%!

charlesc

Quick update: dealer has fixed every little thing gone wrong or not working for free! All new parts including the EGR valve and gas cap. But 72 hours of "searching" has come up with nothing.
Just yesterday GM agreed to a settlement over the 10 year long lie about their ignition switch problem they knew existed even before selling their first car - $900 million fine. Remember the run away accelerator and floor at problems that Lexus & Toyota denied for years until somebody found the smoking memo, and brought it to congress? My lifelong experience with automobiles has proven to me that it is cheaper for them, even Lexus/Toyota to deny or ignore big bottom line expensive to fix problems hoping they don't get caught. You have another member of this forum with same problem. He carries 3 fire extinguishers in the car at all times!! I will too. Why? 'cause Audi refuses to fix major problems with their new 2 litre engine and transmission under warranty. Acura has backed away from trying to fix major flaws in transmission and V6 engines under warranty & are trying to sell off TL's at fire sale prices. I almost got caught in the scheme, until an Acura friend alerted me to the problem. As others have said it is not the manufacturer so much as Lexus Canada continually tells me that all their dealerships are wholly separately owned entities that the mother corp. has little control of. So it, as always in life ,comes down to money & how much. If you don't believe, check out owner complaints on Google. C.

SW17LS

This is absurd LOL. Enough force coming out of the gas cap...before the gas cap even was fully unscrewed to knock a 300b man back on his butt? Shockwave? An atomic bomb? Do you have any idea how much pressure "1,000-2,000 PSI" is? The gas tank would not contain that pressure. Total fantasy.

No...new means new...as in just built by the manufacturer and never owned or operated by someone before. I understand that the car is new to you, but you can't run around and say things like "How terrible something like this could be wrong to a brand new car" when it isn't new. Its 6 potentially 7 years old, things are going to go wrong with it...and when they do you can't turn around and call fall to Lexus because things shouldn't be happening to your "new" car. Thats the reality of buying used cars.

Doublebase

You're absolutely correct. When I took my LS in for the fuel sensor recall, I removed the covers to check a few things and sure enough I immediately noticed that the tech had broken several clips that hold the massive driver harness that sits on top of the manifold...even the plastic housing that holds all the wiring was broken. At least I knew someone had been in there and hopefully did the work, but you never know what you're going to get when your car goes in for surgery.

There is such a huge emphasis on speed at a dealership...these guys are paid flat rate, they go fast, things get broken, and things don't get done right. I just hope - and pray - that the manifold gaskets were replaced and everything was torqued properly during that recall. I imagine it was because I've driven 10k miles since then, without issue, but you never know...it could take some time for something to shake loose.