Need help with locating ATF stick
08-30-15, 10:38 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Need help with locating ATF stick
Any one here please snap a pic and show me where is it?? My stupid self yanked the silver plastic cover off to check for discolored ATF and still didnt see the stick. Thanks a lot
08-31-15, 05:14 PM
#4
Pole Position
If it only it were that easy! Lol. Not on this car, you'll have to go through about 12 steps or get your hands on a factory scan tool and automotive lift.
08-31-15, 08:32 PM
#7
If you search you will see that all hesitation issues are not related to the transmission. The only case with the transmission issue in play was from a failing gasket that leak fluid into electronics. The fluid wasn't the problem. You will also see your in a very small minority who has change their transmission prematurely. You will also notice that the majority have not change their transmission fluid do not experience any hesitation of any sort and if its the transmission fluid being dirty than all of us would have hesitation.
Last edited by Devh; 09-01-15 at 07:30 AM.
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08-31-15, 10:51 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
I only changed out my trans fluid because it's a required maintenance interval for all countries except the U.S. market.
09-01-15, 05:49 AM
#10
I don't want to say color of fluid is not indicative of bad fluid in the case of brake fluid, but in regards to the transmission and the engine oil is not always the case. Fluids can go black and be perfectly normal and in most cases it's a good sign that the fluid is doing it's job. You cannot judge fluid by how it looks, only chemistry can tell you that.
Last edited by Devh; 09-01-15 at 07:31 AM.
09-01-15, 12:29 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I am no where near the knowledgeable league that Double and Devh are in, however I have to say that the blanket statement regarding the "color" of a fluid simply does not justify a means to change it out.
I believe that things have to be taken into consideration, and since we are within the walls of the Lexus LS forum, we're discussing the LS.
Granted there have been several discussions about the ATF fluid in the 460:
Don't change it at all
Change it at 90k-100k
Change it at 60k-70k
At a certain mileage point, don't flush and fill, drain and fill
Perform repeated drain and fills...
I mean, as Devh stated, just because a fluid is black/dark/discolored, does not mean its time for it to be changed.
Due to an oils viscosities, cleaning and lubricating capabilities, one could easily say that if its dirty its doing its job.
Doublebase has stated that regarding his oil change, he's checked his fluid a few thousand miles into an oil change and its practically still that golden/clear color.
I just changed my oil in my car a few weeks ago, went almost exactly 5k on Mobile 1 synthetic oil and it was still pretty clean.
I
'm not a trans expert, but I'd bet due to heat alone, because the 460 produces a lot of front end heat, that can cause discoloration of the fluid, after, say, only 3k to 5k to 7k miles after a trans fluid change out. Now, because the fluid is dark after a good few thousand miles, and a tech goes to look at the color of the fluid, because it happens to be darker in color, would that indicate that its time for it to be changed?
Duration of use, type of fluid, chemistry(s), vehicle, and other variables im sure im forgetting come into play when deciding to change out a fluid. But with any fluid that performs the duties of a lubricant and detergent, and changes molecularly from non-working temp, to working temp (hot/expands) cools down and does this continuously over many miles...reaches a peak point at which the fluid is performing at its max capabilities, then those properties begin to deteriorate, at that point, its strictly about chemistry, thus a lab report.
Its the only true way to determine the elemental properties and the state in which they exist at a given usage point.
I speak on this with a somewhat relatable yet not exactly topic specific knowledge about oils/lubricants and their detergent/lubricity/viscosity tolerances.
I have worked in an industrial setting for the past 10+ years. The reason for mentioning that, is because I have seen with my own two eyes thousands of gear and hydraulic elements that require oils/lubricants in order for them to function optimally.
Granted, this isn't the situation regarding the LS, but there oils that possess an indicative property that, unless the color does not change from "x" to "y" (typically light to darker in color) after so many hours of use, the detergent and lubricity properties it possesses aren't working.
Based off of this example, the life of these lubricants can be based off of RPH/CPH (rotations/cycles per hour), HIU (hours in usage), and some, yes, are gauged by color.
But I cant tell you the number of times when samples have been drawn from an oil or lubricant in question and sent for chem analysis and the oil still has life left, even if it's either:
Approaching its manufactured quoted "end life"
Reached and/or exceeded its "end life"
Progresses to a "color" that would possibly indicate that something is wrong with the lubricant.
All this to say, color should never be a universal indicator regarding changing it out.
I believe that things have to be taken into consideration, and since we are within the walls of the Lexus LS forum, we're discussing the LS.
Granted there have been several discussions about the ATF fluid in the 460:
Don't change it at all
Change it at 90k-100k
Change it at 60k-70k
At a certain mileage point, don't flush and fill, drain and fill
Perform repeated drain and fills...
I mean, as Devh stated, just because a fluid is black/dark/discolored, does not mean its time for it to be changed.
Due to an oils viscosities, cleaning and lubricating capabilities, one could easily say that if its dirty its doing its job.
Doublebase has stated that regarding his oil change, he's checked his fluid a few thousand miles into an oil change and its practically still that golden/clear color.
I just changed my oil in my car a few weeks ago, went almost exactly 5k on Mobile 1 synthetic oil and it was still pretty clean.
I
'm not a trans expert, but I'd bet due to heat alone, because the 460 produces a lot of front end heat, that can cause discoloration of the fluid, after, say, only 3k to 5k to 7k miles after a trans fluid change out. Now, because the fluid is dark after a good few thousand miles, and a tech goes to look at the color of the fluid, because it happens to be darker in color, would that indicate that its time for it to be changed?
Duration of use, type of fluid, chemistry(s), vehicle, and other variables im sure im forgetting come into play when deciding to change out a fluid. But with any fluid that performs the duties of a lubricant and detergent, and changes molecularly from non-working temp, to working temp (hot/expands) cools down and does this continuously over many miles...reaches a peak point at which the fluid is performing at its max capabilities, then those properties begin to deteriorate, at that point, its strictly about chemistry, thus a lab report.
Its the only true way to determine the elemental properties and the state in which they exist at a given usage point.
I speak on this with a somewhat relatable yet not exactly topic specific knowledge about oils/lubricants and their detergent/lubricity/viscosity tolerances.
I have worked in an industrial setting for the past 10+ years. The reason for mentioning that, is because I have seen with my own two eyes thousands of gear and hydraulic elements that require oils/lubricants in order for them to function optimally.
Granted, this isn't the situation regarding the LS, but there oils that possess an indicative property that, unless the color does not change from "x" to "y" (typically light to darker in color) after so many hours of use, the detergent and lubricity properties it possesses aren't working.
Based off of this example, the life of these lubricants can be based off of RPH/CPH (rotations/cycles per hour), HIU (hours in usage), and some, yes, are gauged by color.
But I cant tell you the number of times when samples have been drawn from an oil or lubricant in question and sent for chem analysis and the oil still has life left, even if it's either:
Approaching its manufactured quoted "end life"
Reached and/or exceeded its "end life"
Progresses to a "color" that would possibly indicate that something is wrong with the lubricant.
All this to say, color should never be a universal indicator regarding changing it out.
09-01-15, 02:25 PM
#13
Instructor
We can disagree on this one all day until any of you guys are willing to meet at a track to test the old trans fluid vs the new. I'll bring the equipment/you choose the track. Loser buys the chicken dinner. The test will be based on g-forces created in a straight line acceleration to 60mph. When there is no ATF stick in the engine compartment forums get interesting. Hint: Already been through this same thing with the SL500/sealed trans/lifetime fluid ;-)
Last edited by superdenso; 09-01-15 at 02:31 PM.
09-01-15, 02:45 PM
#14
You don't need a track, just a sample of the fluid. We have a member that has got an oil analysis and the report came back good for the amount of miles driven which I believe was near 100k.
There are others non LS owners that have done the same with similar results being that the transmission is still good to go.
Most owners don't do this kind of sampling but fleet vehicles do it all the time with extended drains that push the fluids to the limit. They trust in oil analysis and observations during a break down.
The whole track thing is a little silly and a little too fast to furious especially for a car like this which essentially an old's mans car not a hot rod.
There are others non LS owners that have done the same with similar results being that the transmission is still good to go.
Most owners don't do this kind of sampling but fleet vehicles do it all the time with extended drains that push the fluids to the limit. They trust in oil analysis and observations during a break down.
The whole track thing is a little silly and a little too fast to furious especially for a car like this which essentially an old's mans car not a hot rod.
09-01-15, 02:53 PM
#15
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I am no where near the knowledgeable league that Double and Devh are in, however I have to say that the blanket statement regarding the "color" of a fluid simply does not justify a means to change it out.
I believe that things have to be taken into consideration, and since we are within the walls of the Lexus LS forum, we're discussing the LS.
Granted there have been several discussions about the ATF fluid in the 460:
Don't change it at all
Change it at 90k-100k
Change it at 60k-70k
At a certain mileage point, don't flush and fill, drain and fill
Perform repeated drain and fills...
I mean, as Devh stated, just because a fluid is black/dark/discolored, does not mean its time for it to be changed.
Due to an oils viscosities, cleaning and lubricating capabilities, one could easily say that if its dirty its doing its job.
Doublebase has stated that regarding his oil change, he's checked his fluid a few thousand miles into an oil change and its practically still that golden/clear color.
I just changed my oil in my car a few weeks ago, went almost exactly 5k on Mobile 1 synthetic oil and it was still pretty clean.
I
'm not a trans expert, but I'd bet due to heat alone, because the 460 produces a lot of front end heat, that can cause discoloration of the fluid, after, say, only 3k to 5k to 7k miles after a trans fluid change out. Now, because the fluid is dark after a good few thousand miles, and a tech goes to look at the color of the fluid, because it happens to be darker in color, would that indicate that its time for it to be changed?
Duration of use, type of fluid, chemistry(s), vehicle, and other variables im sure im forgetting come into play when deciding to change out a fluid. But with any fluid that performs the duties of a lubricant and detergent, and changes molecularly from non-working temp, to working temp (hot/expands) cools down and does this continuously over many miles...reaches a peak point at which the fluid is performing at its max capabilities, then those properties begin to deteriorate, at that point, its strictly about chemistry, thus a lab report.
Its the only true way to determine the elemental properties and the state in which they exist at a given usage point.
I speak on this with a somewhat relatable yet not exactly topic specific knowledge about oils/lubricants and their detergent/lubricity/viscosity tolerances.
I have worked in an industrial setting for the past 10+ years. The reason for mentioning that, is because I have seen with my own two eyes thousands of gear and hydraulic elements that require oils/lubricants in order for them to function optimally.
Granted, this isn't the situation regarding the LS, but there oils that possess an indicative property that, unless the color does not change from "x" to "y" (typically light to darker in color) after so many hours of use, the detergent and lubricity properties it possesses aren't working.
Based off of this example, the life of these lubricants can be based off of RPH/CPH (rotations/cycles per hour), HIU (hours in usage), and some, yes, are gauged by color.
But I cant tell you the number of times when samples have been drawn from an oil or lubricant in question and sent for chem analysis and the oil still has life left, even if it's either:
Approaching its manufactured quoted "end life"
Reached and/or exceeded its "end life"
Progresses to a "color" that would possibly indicate that something is wrong with the lubricant.
All this to say, color should never be a universal indicator regarding changing it out.
I believe that things have to be taken into consideration, and since we are within the walls of the Lexus LS forum, we're discussing the LS.
Granted there have been several discussions about the ATF fluid in the 460:
Don't change it at all
Change it at 90k-100k
Change it at 60k-70k
At a certain mileage point, don't flush and fill, drain and fill
Perform repeated drain and fills...
I mean, as Devh stated, just because a fluid is black/dark/discolored, does not mean its time for it to be changed.
Due to an oils viscosities, cleaning and lubricating capabilities, one could easily say that if its dirty its doing its job.
Doublebase has stated that regarding his oil change, he's checked his fluid a few thousand miles into an oil change and its practically still that golden/clear color.
I just changed my oil in my car a few weeks ago, went almost exactly 5k on Mobile 1 synthetic oil and it was still pretty clean.
I
'm not a trans expert, but I'd bet due to heat alone, because the 460 produces a lot of front end heat, that can cause discoloration of the fluid, after, say, only 3k to 5k to 7k miles after a trans fluid change out. Now, because the fluid is dark after a good few thousand miles, and a tech goes to look at the color of the fluid, because it happens to be darker in color, would that indicate that its time for it to be changed?
Duration of use, type of fluid, chemistry(s), vehicle, and other variables im sure im forgetting come into play when deciding to change out a fluid. But with any fluid that performs the duties of a lubricant and detergent, and changes molecularly from non-working temp, to working temp (hot/expands) cools down and does this continuously over many miles...reaches a peak point at which the fluid is performing at its max capabilities, then those properties begin to deteriorate, at that point, its strictly about chemistry, thus a lab report.
Its the only true way to determine the elemental properties and the state in which they exist at a given usage point.
I speak on this with a somewhat relatable yet not exactly topic specific knowledge about oils/lubricants and their detergent/lubricity/viscosity tolerances.
I have worked in an industrial setting for the past 10+ years. The reason for mentioning that, is because I have seen with my own two eyes thousands of gear and hydraulic elements that require oils/lubricants in order for them to function optimally.
Granted, this isn't the situation regarding the LS, but there oils that possess an indicative property that, unless the color does not change from "x" to "y" (typically light to darker in color) after so many hours of use, the detergent and lubricity properties it possesses aren't working.
Based off of this example, the life of these lubricants can be based off of RPH/CPH (rotations/cycles per hour), HIU (hours in usage), and some, yes, are gauged by color.
But I cant tell you the number of times when samples have been drawn from an oil or lubricant in question and sent for chem analysis and the oil still has life left, even if it's either:
Approaching its manufactured quoted "end life"
Reached and/or exceeded its "end life"
Progresses to a "color" that would possibly indicate that something is wrong with the lubricant.
All this to say, color should never be a universal indicator regarding changing it out.