CRowe14

Im not going to sing the "doom and gloom" song, as I was aware that this could be an issue well before I purchased the car. I had just hoped that it wouldn't serve as an issue until much later.
The information that fellow members/visitors may desire to know:
I own an 07 460 L with 69,127miles on it.
I had an inspection done on the car back in March and all checked out fine. I don't drive the car much, however we have pretty harsh winters in the Midwest, and aside from that, the bushing are rubber=wear item!

Lexus quoted prices:
Upper control arms: $1485.51 (each side)
Tire Sensor: $161.20
Total: $3310.50
I asked for the cost of labor if I just purchased the arms on my own, and was quoted $869.70.

How I knew I had an issue to begin with, or so I thought, was the other day, I was in a parking lot and had to hit the brakes pretty hard because of an on coming car. I was pulling out of a parking space, going forward, so the speed was very, very slow. As I hit the brakes, I heard the thump/clunk noise. From what I had read on this forum, it was almost instant that I knew what the issue was. I didn't get the noise any other time. Only at low speeds with a sudden stop. Not at acceleration and not at a gradual slow down.
I should mention this:
Last Tues, I was driving on the highway at about 70mph. This was absolutely my fault, as I took my eyes off the road only momentarily, and as I looked up to approach an off ramp, traffic had slowed and I had to apply my brakes quite aggressively, to the point where I swerved a bit to the left and the car screeched to a halt.
For anyone who questions the stopping ability of this mammoth of a car, please, don't.
the stopping power was very, very impressive, nose dive wasn't excessive at all, and the restraint system worked so well, that I barely moved in the seat.
I personally think that with the bushings being 8 years old but with under 70k miles on them, that was the last straw for them.
The SA took me to the back to show me the bushings.
He said the bottoms and rears were perfectly fine, but the 4 top bushings were torn. To me they didn't look horrible, but there were visible tears in each upper bushing.
I also, apparently need another tpms monitor for my drivers front wheel.
Lexus claims that because the monitor is aftermarket, its not reading correctly and causing a malfunction. Does that sound right to anyone? I've never had an issue with it until today.
Im thinking about tackling these control arms myself, because when I looked at the arms when it was on the lift, I only saw two bolts, but im sure there must be a tool(s) that I need that im sure I don't have.
Also, I've read on here a plethora of times, that its almost every time, that its the bushings and not the arm itself. Based on what I was shown, that would be the case here.
I have an indy that I trust, so i'll call him tomorrow in the am to see if he has the capability to press bushings.
Or...
Would any of you recommend replacing the arms and bushings with the revised set?
So that's my situation everyone..and as always, any and all feedback is welcome!
-Best place to acquire the tire monitor for a good price
-Purchase bushings (if my indy guy can press'em)
-Purchase revised uppers and do them myself
-Purchase revised uppers and let the indy do it
(Where is the best place to purchase arms/bushings)?

Thanks everyone!

Devh

Take a look at this link for Poly Bushings.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-LS460-LS600h-Front-Upper-Lower-Strut-Bushing-Kit-07-13-/321539466602?fits=Model%3ALS460&hash=item4add3ee56a&vxp=mtr
They even have a tool for installation of the upper control arm bushings.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-LS460-LS600h-Upper-Bushing-Installation-Tool-Kit-460T-/321475455708?fits=Model%3ALS460&hash=item4ad96e2adc&vxp=mtr
The only problem you will have if you do it your self is finding the right size ball joint separator and you will have to cut out the old bushings to install the poly.

However if you shop around and let an independent know that you will provide the bushing they may do the work. A speed shop might do the work as well.
If that option is exhausted then you could buy the control arms from EBay and any independent should be able to install them provided that they allow you to give them the parts.

Lextrician

i was just on rock auto looking for a parts and came across suspension parts worth a shot because the bushings are already installed and the price looks reasonable. I did the bushing change myself and i can say that it is better to buy the parts with bushings pressed in.

Doublebase

What I'd personally do is buy aftermarket arms and install them. We already know originals fail, so at least for me I'd give a cheaper aftermarket set a shot. The worst that could happen is you'll have to replace them at some point, which is what you are doing now anyway. I've done many control arm replacements with aftermarket parts...they are cheaper...they don't usually last as long, but when a vehicle is no longer "new", this is what you have to do because you are going to be replacing this stuff all the time. Truth is, after 70-80k every bushing on every car is no longer once what it once was - it's a never ending battle - one where you just have to manage the situation. Of course you could replace every piece of rubber on a suspension, but by the time you're finished something else will break.

The upper control arms look pretty easy to do. You can buy aftermarket arms on eBay for a reasonable price, I'd give it a shot.

Devh

That's were the poly comes in. If the bushings are properly researched the poly can last thrice as long as rubber.

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

I would stay away from PSB as there are plenty of documented longevity issues with them. We created a lifetime bushing and also offer it pressed into an arm. The bushings also feature lubrication retention features to hold the grease vs the others that have little slits, these just displace the grease when the load cycles.
I worked over a year to see these to production so that you guys can not worry about this issue.

Mike
http://shopfigs.com/v1/index.php?rou...product_id=264

CRowe14

Mike,
Thanks for the information.
I tried to do some digging on my own to read up on your product as well as the PSB.
I didn't find to much if any negative feedback on your bushings, but I also didn't find much negative on PS either.
The one thing I did see on PSB on a few occurrence's , was that after about 8 month to a year, they begin to clunk.
Lastly, how much would it be for the 4 upper arms with the poly bushing already installed?
Thanks.

texas008

[QUOTE=FIGS;9108773]I would stay away from PSB as there are plenty of documented longevity issues with them. We created a lifetime bushing and also offer it pressed into an arm. The bushings also feature lubrication retention features to hold the grease vs the others that have little slits, these just displace the grease when the load cycles.
I worked over a year to see these to production so that you guys can not worry about this issue.

Mike
http://shopfigs.com/v1/index.php?rou...product_id=264

Interesting product, wonder if you could do a youtube video showing this product? thanks,

Wandl

bushings are the root cause here but it really depends on the technical/mechanical resources you or your mechanic would have. Me, I just replaced the control arms as the cost difference wasn't very big - but you'd certainly be able to get away with replacing all upper control arms for well under $1k inclusive of labor

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

The PSB bushings when used in high articulation applications like this have issues. The material has a lot of voids in the construction and it breaks down over cyclic stress(looks foamy instead of dense). The GS application is probably the most similar but I have had some LS430 customers on the 4th replacement of their rear lower LCA bushings as they wore out too quickly. PSB is happy to send you another bushing covered under warranty because its easy to back up junk with more junk due to the cost to manufacture being so low. Yous till get to go through the cost on installing and removing the old one.That said I have never seen a PSB product that actually simulated the facotry bushing with a press fit collar and most a generally "it fits the hole" type of design which leads to the same time of material migration and egging out of time.

The bushings we have made by SuperPro are bonded to the outer steel cup and built to resist stress during articulation from the double plane control arm on the LS460. The major problem is the design of the suspension having 2 links, mounted on 2 different axis and 2 ball joints on the out side. It cannot move without need to deflect the bushing. The SP formulation of urethane is stable under repeated load cycles and will not deform over time. To boot there are diamond pattern lubrication channels that hold grease. I can try to get a video if I can find another local LS to work with. Our test car is no longer available as the customer traded it in. The SP lifetime warranty is rooted in never needing to warranty product because it will not wear out. The only warranty claims I have had were based on vehicle getting into accidents and destroying a bushing (and control arm) or where the bushing was not installed according to guidelines. Both circumstances were warrantied BTW.

Mike

Doublebase

So do you make the entire arm with the bushings, as well? If so, how much per arm?

Doublebase

Crowe, one thing to consider is the labor quote you were given...$869 sounds insane for what this job involves. At that price they are basically saying that this is an 8 hour job and it's not. Not if you're just replacing the top control arms...no way in hell. There are experienced suspension guys out there that I bet could do that job in an hour and a half, tops. Easily. And if they do the alignment, most places charge $50-$70 bucks. And I imagine it will be an easy alignment.

If you don't want to do it yourself I'd shop around a bit...this is not rocket science we are talking about here. There are maybe 10 nuts and bolts per side that need to come off, and they are easily accessible - not exactly A tech stuff.

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

The addition of the aluminum complete replacement arms adds $250 for all 4. That is the pricing based on our arm price right now and subject to change.
We have had shops do this install in 1 hour.

Doublebase

Ok thanks, I don't need them yet, but my car is at 100k miles...imagine they'll need replacement soon.

CRowe14

Hey bud,
Absolutely agreed regarding the Lexus price for labor.
I recall thinking when he took me back there to look at the bushings, why in the world is the labor so high!?
As I've said in previous post, I am a DIY guy, but am still learning the facets of automobile repair(s). However, with that being said, while looking at the upper arms, I really didn't see anything difficult about changing them out! Not long ago I did an inner/outter tie rod repair on a 06 Denali, and that was so straight forward I couldn't believe it. And to be honest, I cant see where a lot of complication would come into play.
I do have a question though...there is a bracket that's attached to the body of the car that the inner part of the control arms are bolted to. When looking in on that area, it seems as though the area is pretty tight. On the one side, its seems as though it'd be pretty easy to get a socket in there and loosen the nut, but on the bolt head side, it doesn't appear that there is much room to pull the bolt out once the nut is removed. Ive attached a few photos to perhaps better aid in a visual of what im speaking of.
Any feeback/comments on this?

Note: After looking at the photos posted here, you cant really see the area im speaking on in the photos, but its the area opposite the side of the nut on the bolt. Theres not much room there...