CRowe14

Fellow forum runners...
Now, before I begin here, I'd like to say that I fully understand that what I'll be composing could be placed in the general "car chat" area of the forum, but I decided to place it here, because 1, I'm an LS owner, 2, I enjoy reading the vast array of feedback and knowledgeable responses from the myriad of members here, and 3, which may be the most important, is that often times, we have/have had members who are in the market for an LS and often inquire about the year, model and mileage point regarding a car of potential purchase.
With that being said, earlier this morning, I happen to overhear a colleague of mine speaking with another gentleman regarding the purchase of a used car, and the mileage point he was seeking.
I was within an ear shot's distance, and wasn't involved in the conversation, but the subject matter made me think about his statement in greater detail. So I immediately thought "what a great topic to post for discussion on CL".
I'm not sure of the make/model of the vehicle, but he was saying that he didn't care what year it was, but as long as it had 60k or under, he'd be willing to seriously consider purchasing the car. He rattled off a few choices, as I assume he was online, "this one has 67k and its a 2010...this one has 58k and its a 2006".
The guy he was speaking with said: "If you come across one thats like 3-4, maybe even 5 years old with that mileage, I wouldn't exactly rule it out. The miles would be kinda' high for the age of the car, but they're probably highway miles. Highway miles versus "stop and go" man...makes a difference..".
The other guy responded: "Dude...a MILE is a MILE!! Period! I drive about 45 miles, one way to work, and about 95% of the miles are highway miles, and im doing between 90-100mph! So you cant tell me that highway miles are better for a car! I don't wanna hear it"!
Now I understand that there are many, many variables to take into consideration when purchasing a used car with 60k. But with a generalized regard to vehicles (if you can say that), what is everyone's opinion on this subject matter?

darksands

Highway miles = less wear and tear on parts of the vehicle. You ask him if you drove 1000 miles stopping at every mile and he drove 1000 miles on the highway, who would have to replace their brakes sooner. This also applies for the transmission as well. You aren't changing gears much on the highway.

Devh

Very good post you started.
In my opinion it depends because there are so many factors involved apart from what has already been discussed but the big one I have seen by far is the previous owners driving habits.


-Very low miles with a bad driver may fair better then a good driver with a lot of miles or it could go the other way depending on the car.

- Location the car was driven in as well as being garaged kept is another. Garage kept preserve cars that you can visually see. On the other hand extremely low miles for the age is not a good thing.

- Hwy miles vs city has valid arguments but they can flip if the Hwy car is driven at a set MPH without much variation in speed.
-Accidents from a bad driver or a leased vehicle, pet owner, smoker and so on.

There are just too many variables and the sad thing is dealers and private parties over value their cars and because of KBB and other industry made resources that favor the industry not the buyer.
You need to inspect each car with a fine tooth comb so you end up with a good example and may have to go though several. Each time it gets better as you gain experienced and the desperation subsides. If you give into your emotions you are then stuck with regrets that could have been avoided but people always do and that is why the industry is almost comical with the confidence game in plane sight.

dlbuckls10

When I purchased my '10 LS It was 2 years old with 38K miles and now (mostly highway) 73K. I've enjoyed every mile I have driven and I don't worry about mileage. There are variables and my uncle '09 LS has only 33K and mostly due to city driving. Both of our LS's are very reliable and a pleasure to drive and ride so smooth. City vs highway, low mileage vs high, neglected or well cared for, Lexus are build like tanks and extremely reliable.

Doublebase

I'll take highway miles over any other type of miles and day of the week. The engine is getting max air flow. The suspension is not working hard...the brake system is doing nothing...the weight of the vehicle is stable and not shifting to the front. Yes it is a constant speed, but there are times when you vary your speed (occasional traffic, lane changes, the occasional off ramp). It's just easy on a car.

The problem with when people say "it's all highway miles", is that they're lying. That phrase is probably the single most abused statement in used car sales today...and it's because it's a selling point.

Devh

I guess the little old lady that went to the market doesn't work anymore. It takes at least one generation before people catch on.
I have seen it where owners will try to oversell their car for the wrong reasons when they don't have to.

roadfrog

Highway miles are far less harmful to a vehicle than a stop and go, city car. Think taxi....think courier or police car.

Doublebase

Remember those days? Grandmother's car...hardly driven...car is mint!!!

What they don't tell you is that the car has four flat spots and dry rot on the tires. That the brake lines are rotted out, fuel lines too. And that the oil hasn't been changed in four years. I've also seen suspension components gone bad from a typical "grandma car"...bad tie rods...blown out struts, etc.

Good old grandma.

Devh

I don't want to sound sexist but sometimes the there is a stereotype associated with it for good reason. I have come across interiors with little red chips imbibed in the interior leather,vinyl and rear view mirror that you ordinarily don't see unless you are looking for it on a CSI hunt leading you to a bad case of curb rash every time. It's still not as bad as male that has to beat up on their car and rag the hell out of it with clutch or brake dumps, I have seen those too and it's more depressing then the finding signs of spilled milk in the back seat. used cars tell tails and no matter how hard the dealer tries to clean it you can get an creepy idea what the last owner was like.

CarGuy89

Some interesting points for sure. I was always led to believe highway miles were 'better', but like many have said the LS is built so well it might not matter as much for this particular car.

I want to add that one really nice thing about buying a pre-owned Lexus is that we have access to the Lexus Records. IMO this is worth its weight in gold and has helped me purchase 2 great LS cars. This way we can really see how the car was treated during its lifetime, whether or not it was regularly serviced. It will also reveal a car which is problematic (ie frequent trip to dealership). In many cases, it also carries accident reports that are not covered by Carfax. For instance there was one car which seemed like great value - a CPO 2011 with ultra low miles for 40k, but after looking at the Lexus history, it appears the driver was quite careless and somehow damaged their front subframe in the first 5k mi. The owner then paid for the entire repair in cash so it wouldn't show up on Carfax...sneaky lol.

My point is in addition to just miles, the Lexus records adds another dimension to car buying. I am hoping more companies will adopt this in the future

Devh

You can get the record even if the car is not pre-owned. But you are right it is an invaluable tool and one that actually benefits the customer and not the dealer. It actually it hurts the dealer because they cannot make all cars equally good buys. They only thing they can do is gloss over it if there is questionable history.

CarGuy89

I agree 100%. At the end of the day though, the majority of used car buyers will end up glossing over most of that stuff anyway. People in general don't care enough about all this (hence why there are so many mediocre cars on the road to start with). It really helps those of us on here who are picky and want the perfect car

CRowe14

This is exactly what I'd hope to happen...
Points of view that are very informative.
I have to say that the MyLexus site had proved to be, might I say, the single most important source that helped me with my purchasing decision.
Of course, as Devh stated, there is no substitute for physically seeing the car and driving it.
I wish that I knew what make my co-worker was speaking of. Perhaps when I get a few minutes and im over by his office, I'll stop by with the feedback that's been stated in this thread and see what he says.
Enthusiast stuff!
I wanted to say that the make of the car, the engine, geographic location, driver habit(s), performing regulatory maintenance, and im sure things im not factoring in, are all variables and have some effect on the overall health of a vehicle.
However, would it be ignorant on my part, to say that, from a very general and surface viewpoint, that some cars are able to withstand certain treatment, "better" than other vehicles?
For example, im sure most if not all of you have heard stories about people simply DRIVING a car and doing practically nothing to it for years.
Changing oil at 15-20k miles, never changing out brake fluid, never draining/flushing coolant, hardly ever or never changing cabin/engine filters, allowing brakes to practically go metal to metal thus effecting suspension items...simply fill it up and go! And people have had cars in this fashion and are 12, 13...15 years old and though it may have some issues..it still runs!
To manufacturers of course come to mind, whenever I've heard a like-story which im sure they will with anyone who reads this:
Honda and Toyota.
Now of course this isn't how a car should be treated, however, cars have been neglected and still continue to perform.
The thing with Lexus is that, in my opinion, would I, again, be ignorant in saying that if one has decided to purchase such a vehicle, generally speaking, you are of a circle of car owners who are informed, an enthusiast, and would/does care about the well being of the of the vehicle. The desire is to enjoy it and within that regard, you take care of it. Why else do so much research and toiling pre-purchase, if to simply buy the car and mistreat it?
Doublebase comes to mind..
We are all ware of how often he drives his vehicle on a daily basis. I use him because he has consistently stated just how much he drives, and to my understanding, he probably drives the most of nearly all of us in the LS thread, and more so-mixed driving.
Granted he has done things to his car to aid in its longevity, as he drives it so frequently.
Lets say he decided to change his oil at 15k miles with the same driving habits with 0W15 Toyo oil, played around with the octane and/or source of the fuel (as he recently discovered was an attributing factor to his lack of instant acceleration while at highway speeds) and just drove it like that for a few years. Could the LS take it?
According to what many have said here, due to hesitation and things of that nature, one would say hell no! These engines are "touchy" and need a certain level of attention and care. So because cars of the past could operate in such a manner (as I recently stated), but the possibility of the LS wouldn't be able to, does that make/mark the LS, in comparison a vehicle that's "less than"? Now keep in mind, I am factoring in the ideal that the LS, more so, the engine, is a technically engineered, sound, beautiful feat. But for the mere sake of conversation (and please-understand that this is simply an enthusiast thread, as I do understand the importance of taking care of a car, no matter the make/age), technology of course makes things better, but is there a point when it hinders the ability for a car owner to abuse it; take lesser care, and have it still, well...perform?

Devh

That's a good question. I believe that the industry on the whole is a little more sensitive and demands specialty fluids. The German cars need special oil too which has to meet their certification. Toyota is a lot more flexible in this regard but the issue seems to be in my opinion the change from dino to synthetic.

Most cars that recommend premium is exactly what you need to run in it. These days because of timing chains and better engine management you can run lower octane in a pinch but I believe retarding the timing long term is not a good for any engine because it is running out of bounds of how the engine was designed. In the past if you ran lower octane fuel you could skip a tooth on a timing belt or ruin the engine with pre-ignition.
Keeping everything into perspective we basically have truck engines which need premium fuel and 0W-20 engine oil. It only needs Dot 3 brake fluid and can use any coolant. There is nothing exotic about this car except for a few of it's quirks but that is seen across the Toyota line up.

Doublebase

I'll tell you what...used cars is a game...and if you think you have won, they can sneak up and surprise you. I have been very very lucky in the past...I do my homework and shop around, but even then you really don't know. Not long ago I was shopping around for a pickup truck...looked at lots of trucks...finally found the one that I liked...good price, right mileage, no accidents, asked lots of questions, ran great, good maintenance record, etc. Well I got it home, washed it real well because it was dusty and then saw a rather large scratch from the passenger door, all the way to the rear tail light. I didn't see that scratch when I looked at it, the dust covered it perfectly...and I was stuck with it. I ended up buffing half of it out and had the rear quarter sprayed. Also I noticed a slight tick coming from the exhaust manifold area - now I was thinking...wow, I bought a lemon with a huge scratch in it. The ticking noise ended up being the dreaded "hemi tick", which had something to do with the material they used in the valve springs (the springs would weaken just enough to move a tiny bit under the retainers and keepers, causing a tick that you could hear around the manifolds. It was nothing serious, but still it was another thing I didn't notice when I looked at the vehicle.