wayman28

I just purchased a used 2009 LS 460 with 73k miles on it. Today I brought it to a Lexus dealership for a comprehensive used car diagnostic. The major items the dealership brought to my attention were the following:

1) All front control arm bushings need replacement (which means four control arms need to be replaced). The estimate for this was about $3100.

2) All front ball joints need replacement. The estimate was about $500.

The ride on the car seems fine. I don't feel or hear any unreasonable noise/vibrations. Even if these repairs are valid I don't think I'm doing any permanent damage to it by delaying these repairs.

I also brought the car to a Pep Boys for their used car diagnostic and they did NOT note anything wrong with the control arms or ball joints. They certainly aren't Lexus specialists but they are certified mechanics.

My questions are the following:

- If I don't hear/feel anything wrong with the car then how urgent are these front end repairs?

- Does anyone have any experience with these issues and if so what did it sound/feel like when you were driving?

Thanks in advance for any input.

DJWLDW

My answer would be a no vote.

Dennis

roadfrog

I would take it to a Toyota dealership or other Lexus dealer and have a second opinion.

Further, even if the front bushings DO need replacement, I certainly wouldn't replace the arms. You can get all the front bushings on EBay for a few hundred dollars and have them replaced rather than replacing entire arms. Several members here have done that and saved thousands. Lexus does not do it this way and therefore charges ridiculous money for the job.

wayman28

Thanks roadfrog. I see you're making the rounds and replied to all three of my threads

I specifically asked the Lexus service consultant about the control arm bushing replacement part and he said they have to replace the whole arm at about $500 per control arm. What you're saying makes a lot more sense. Seems ridiculous to change the whole arm for just the bushing's failure. This makes me feel a lot better but I'm going to do more homework on it.

I'm still not convinced I need to do anything at all since the car rides just fine right now.

roadfrog

That's because I have no life. LOL.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

I'm not aware of any manufacturer's dealership that replaces bushing any more - they all replace the entire arm (Ford, GM, Toyota, BMW, Lexus, etc). Most independents I know also don't replace just the bushings. That's pretty much DIY only these days.

If the car is showing no signs at all of wear, I'd be inclined to leave it alone. A second opinion from a Toyota dealership is a good idea, though.

robert1408

First, there are eight control arms total, four per side. Each arm comes with both a bushing and a ball joint. Check the estimate to see how many arms they are talking about. If it's all eight, then $3600 is a good price for a dealer to do that job. The quote should include an alignment.

If there is no popping or clunking in the front end and it drives ok, there is no urgency to do this right away. Loud noises, pulling while braking or directional instability could mean repairs are needed soon.

I would recommend letting an independent Lexus or Toyota tech look at it. I replaced all eight eight arms with Lexus parts on my '07 at 50k miles. Only two of them were actually bad, the left lower rearward and the right lower forward one. I replaced them all because I was taking it all apart anyway to put in factory alignment brackets and I figured the other bushings would likely need replacing soon enough.

Some people here have had good results replacing bushings alone. I spent a career in the auto service bizz and we preferred oem parts for nearly all suspension work, especially on imports. The quality on cheaper aftermarket stuff was generally terrible. Since retiring 2 years ago, I'm hearing some high volume aftermarket stuff is getting to be much better so I can't recommend against trying aftermarket bushings except for one part.

The one complete control arm I would advise buying from Lexus is the lower rearward. It's the one that has the bushed hole where the bottom of the strut attaches. The ball joint in this arm actually supports all the weight, all the other ball joints only take "location" or side loads. Plus, its bushing is under big side and vertical loads all the time, not just when hitting bumps.

One other note here. The control arm that arrests the foreword and rearward motion of the front wheel is the forward lower one. The only way to inspect it properly is to remove the lower belly shield, shine a light in there and watch the bushing while prying on it. It's a big bushing but it takes big loads on braking and larger bumps. I have read of at least one instance here where even a dealer missed this one, trying to solve a clunking noise complaint. On my car this bushing was torn badly but only made a slight clunking noise.

If you want to see something interesting, lift the car and with a wheel off, watch what all those arms, bushings and ball joints do when you steer. It's impressive to see all that stuff articulating and those bushings being twisted. It's surprising it all lasts as long as it does!

wayman28

Thanks Robert1408. Your post was very helpful. And yes the estimate I received was for four control arms (front end).

willnot

go online to buyautoparts.com they sell the upper control arms for $125 a pair($225 for both sides with discount) i got my mechanic to put them on for $80 bucks it took him an hour to do it.. forget the dealer they will rob you!!

GregoryNP

I have 95,000 on my 2007. Certified for another 5,000 miles. Asked the mechanic at the Lexus dealer if he could check my control arms as i read here there is a problem. He stated Lexus will only pay for it if i say there is a sound coming from the front end. With my hearing not sure i can hear it if it making a noise. I need a second opinion.

LS2k

It's not a question of if it's a question of when. Best to get it done while under warranty.

Devh

They will recommend replacement soon as it's out of warranty.

All kidding aside not all cars are going to have premature control arm issues.
Just because they have changed the rubber in the later years and have replaced a number of control arms it doesn't mean you will have the failure.
Every owner will have their share of issues from minor to major but it doesn't mean everyone will have every issue. Control arms are wear items and will go bad eventually, if your lucky it will be gradual.

greg3852

I just had mine checked out and they are fine. I'm at 61k miles. My rear suspension is driving me nuts but that's a different story.

Doublebase

I have a pretty good pull to the left with my car and I'm always trying to correct it by steering to the right (which is a pain). I'm certainly not going to have lexus do it for 3k bucks...3k for control arms? Are they made of gold? I'll either buy aftermarket arms or press in aftermarket bushings. I realize that aftermarket stuff can be junk, but with the money I'll save I'll get a year or two out of it and then do them again if I still have the car.

I'm not hearing any noises from the front yet, but I'm sure they are coming.

One thing I hear is a piece of cake to do, is the brakes on this car...that's good news knowing how much this car weighs and how many sets of pads I'll be going through.