DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Ironman,

Saw your rude note here and felt you needed a public response.

ALL our moderators on CL are unpaid volunteers – we do this because we care for this community. Moderators such as Tee put in their own 12 hour day at ‘real work’ and afterward come onto CL to participate in the forums, help members, organize and police the forums, etc. Many of us have been doing this for 15 years on CL.

The moderator team tries to make things easy by posting FAQs (such as this one) and DIYs at the top of each forum, and we do have the expectation that members will try to help themselves first by at least starting by reading the FAQ and searching. As you can imagine, it gets a bit repetitive seeing the same basic questions week-after-week year-after-year when the answers are already right there. And this isn’t just from the moderator team, many of our most helpful long-term members also get fatigued from seeing the same topics time after time.

If, after doing that 10 minutes of basic reading or searching, you still have questions by all means start up a thread, there are ALWAYS new questions or new perspectives needed. “Hey I read all the links in the FAQ and searched but I have a question about X or Y” will get a totally different reaction. In the FAQ for your specific question posted here are a Buying Advice thread, tips when purchasing a CPO thread, differences between years thread, several threads on common issues to look out for, etc. A great start.

All we’re asking here is for folks is to do a bit of basic looking first before posting. You’ve been a member long enough to recognize that without insulting the moderator.

If you’d like to discuss further, please PM me.

Nospinzone

Ryan, absolutely send me a PM.

As an aside for everyone, a PM can be sent any time to any member without asking permission (of course applying the same guidelines of civility as in the public forums).

SW17LS

With all due respect to your mechanic friend, the assertion that 2010 quality is better than 2011 or 2012 doesn't really make any sense. The refresh was done in 2010...the 2011 and 2012 models are just carryover from 2010. If there was a quality difference you would see it comparing 2010s with 2007-2009s. When you look at reliability and quality data theres also nothing to support the idea that a 2010 is built better or is more reliable than say a 2011 or 2012. All the parts are the same, brakes are the same, navigation is the same, part numbers are absolutely the same and interchangeable. Lexus certainly has reduced some quality generation over generation, but within a generation I've never seen any changes. If he were saying the 2009 was a higher quality vehicle since it was the last year before the refresh at least that would make sense.

I know you had issues with your 2012 and haven't with your 2010, but thats just luck more than it having to do with the year.

Just to add to what Dave said...its also not a whole lot of fun being a forum moderator...moving threads around...it colors people's perceptions of you when you're just talking in the forums...you get attitude like this. Good forum mods deserve our respect...from what I've seen here everybody seems good particularly Tee. These guys do a good job here and out in the Lexus community, and they have been doing it many of them for a LONG time. Respect is due, IMHO.

SW17LS

I think you completely misread my tone...no "medication" or lightening up needed here. Just sharing my logic for why I personally would not worry about any quality difference between 2010-2011-2012 models despite your mechanic's feelings with the group. They can come to their own conclusions about what to purchase. Nothing magically changes when a model year ends and a new one begins if there aren't any model changes. Production is continuous, the same parts are used, same suppliers, same supply on hand. They don't just throw out "2010 parts" and start using "2011 parts". Personally, I'd always buy the newest one I could afford.

SW17LS

I am not insulted, angered or "enraged" in the slightest and I promise you you misread my comment (I've read it three times trying to see how you did, and I don't). I simply disagree with your mechanic's logic, and I shared that viewpoint with the group deciding between these model years...thats all. Whether you bought new or not is immaterial, the posters in this thread are obviously buying used which is why they were asking what year to purchase. My advice to them would be "I would buy the newest year you can afford".

Nospinzone

etwd, if you want to argue whether you believe your mechanic over someone else, that is fair game and have at it. Writing personal insults like "take your medication" is not.

Now on to some factual information. Consumer Reports is a far more comprehensive survey of vehicle years than any other source that I am aware of. According to their most recent used car report, there is very little difference in reliability between MY 2010, 2011 and 2012. Here is a summary of the differences -

Drive System, less than 1% for 2010 and 2011, less than 2% for 2012

Suspension, greater than 3% for 2010 and 2011, less than 1% for 2012

Brakes, greater than 3% for 2010 and 2012, less than 2% for 2011

Paint/trim, less than 2% for 2010, less than 1% for 20111 and 2012

Body integrity, less than 2% 2010, less than 1% 2011, greater than 3% 2012

Audio system, greater than 3% 2010, less than 2% 2011 and 2012

So as you can see overall there is really no significant difference between any of these model years. I don't doubt that your befriended chief mechanic has seen more problems with 2011 and 2012 cars, but I just question whether he has seen enough of a sample size to make a scientific conclusion.

SW17LS

I was looking for that info from CR myself Nospin...

Another thing to remember, Toyota/Lexus does not wait until the end of a model year to change something if there are issues, they will make an adjustment midyear. You see this all the time with ECU flashes, etc. Look at TSBs and the VIN range affected, only a certain range not the whole model year, meaning a change was implemented during production. Some other brands don't do things this way, although most do now.

So, in all actuality a late run 2011 and an early run 2012 or whatever are actually basically exactly the same, the model year is kind of meaningless. Thats why you are more likely to see a reliability difference when you have a refresh or new model, because there actually is a production change at the model year change in that situation (i.e. 2009 to 2010. 2012 to 2013 etc)

So nobody is allowed to post a viewpoint that doesn't mirror yours? Thats not very fair. We're being more than respectful towards you given your attitude...how about a little of that back towards us?

Simmsled

.............

SW17LS

I understand that you don't care and that we aren't going to change your mind, but people are reading these threads in an effort to help themselves make a purchase decision...and more input from a variety of sources is more valuable than input from one source.

Nospinzone

I'll write this as clearly as I can make it. It is perfectly acceptable to argue, and argue vehemently, any viewpoint you have. However, everything you write must be respectful of others and be devoid of insults or other personal attacks.

If you feel anything I or anyone else has said that is inappropriate, you are welcome to PM myself, another moderator or an administrator.

SW17LS

I said I was not trying to change your mind. I don't care what you drive or have or like or don't like. I have every right to share my experience and viewpoint with the members of the forum same as you and everyone else.

I've posted in this thread in an effort to help the OP and others in their decision process between a 2010, 2011 or 2012. Thats all.

SW17LS

I'm out lol. Good luck...

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Etwd, sw13gs - would like you guys to exit this thread

Guys this is a sticky in another CL subforum but it's starting to need to apply here. I would like you both to take it to heart.... A lot of senseless back and forth arguing in this thread that should have been walked away from many posts ago.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-is-forum.html

Don't want to see anything again like this either ....absolutely inappropriate way to respond to a respectful reply, even if you disagree.

Ironman50

I am responsible for starting a boxing match.

etwd, for what's it worth your comments were very helpful. So thank you for your input.

roadfrog

No you're not. Don't worry about it! :-)

I do notice that this forum is a little different from the many others I've belonged to and had significant input into. I'm hoping things improve, becasue this forum is the only game around for the LS460. There are some good people here.