First time Lexus owner and my unbiased opinion
04-26-13, 10:10 AM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
First time Lexus owner and my unbiased opinion
Hello, all!
I just purchased a very well-cared for 2007 LS460 L and wanted to share my thoughts about the vehicle and my experience in comparison shopping this segment for anyone who may be in the market for a pre-owned luxury sedan.
First of all, I could not be happier with the car. True, I only have a few days behind me, but every time I get into it I discover some new little detail that surprises me and puts a smile on my face. The thoughtfulness that went into designing this car is mind-boggling to me. The speed at which the hand-pulls retract to the headliner, the way the window controls' back-lighting dims for other occupants when the driver's lock is engaged - these are niceties that are either not bothered with by some or never imagined by others.
For a 30-year-old, I have had a fairly spoiled past with cars. My first was a BMW 318is, then I moved to a Saab 9-5 and just prior to the LS I had a Porsche 911 Carrera 4. It's an eclectic group of vehicles, but each spoke to me in a certain way and all had an underlying theme of being tremendous value for what I paid to get into them. The BMW was a steal and made me appreciate the importance of a "just-enough" drive-train and how handling and balance can trump power in putting a smile on your face any day. The Saab was a solid, comfortable cruiser with just enough sporting pretension to still be fun and it offered interior size and amenities in line with a similar-year 5-Series or A6 for a fraction of the cost. The 911 really needs no explanation - it really is everything that people say it is and more. If it had four doors and a usable storage compartment it would still be in my driveway (of course that would be a Panamera, but the bank account isn't quite ready for that, yet).
In moving to the Lexus I was looking for a full-size luxury sedan that would coddle every passenger and still be fun to put the spurs to from time to time. Because of how well these cars hold their value and how poorly their German brethren hold theirs, pricing was basically level between the LS460 L, Mercedes S550, BMW 750Li and Audi A8, assuming excellent condition and relatively low miles. I have driven all of these cars extensively in my search and each has its pros and cons. Having only owned European cars, I admit I have an affinity for them in spite of the usual caveats of frequent repairs and high running costs. I assumed going into this exercise that I would find the LS a compromise - great comfort and the peace of mind that Lexus' well-deserved reputation for quality brings, but too isolated, stiff-collared and dull to be much fun. I'll spoil the ending by telling you that it flipped my expectations upside down, but it is worth sharing my impressions of the other contenders.
The S550 is a very imposing car. It looks big. It is big, but more to the point it feels big. When driving a W221 S-Class, there is a sense of anxiety that you are constantly at risk of meandering into an adjacent lane or that you might misjudge a parking angle and plow into a barrier or some unsuspecting soul's car. The cabin is extremely spacious, which is inviting when you're at a standstill, but a little unnerving at speed. The steering is leaden, and in the 4-Matic version it proceeds with a kind of deliberate heft that brings the pacing of a freight train to mind. It gathers speed quickly and is obviously quite happy rocketing down the interstate in triple-digits, but it doesn't shrink around you. With respect to gee-whiz gadgetry, it ticks all of the appropriate boxes and creates a few of its own. The car I was interested in had the night-vision system that is displayed in the gauge cluster and between that, the striking ambient lighting and the art design that went into the various COMMAND screen images, it's easy to be impressed by the presentation. The latter two features I do sorely miss in the LS, but they add nothing to the actual use of the car. In fact, while I'm on the topic of usability, I have to mention that COMMAND really is as obnoxious and fiddly as the automotive journalists say. It can be conquered, but two minutes with the "dedicated buttons and menus" approach of the LS should make anyone ask, "why bother?" The nail in the coffin for me, though, was the BINDER of warranty repairs that I found in the glove box. I tried to do some quick math to total up what all had been done to the car and it was staggering. Now, 2007 was the first year this car was sold in the United States, but it had been on the market in Europe already for a year by then so I would hope most of the teething pains had been worked out. If I'd had to spend even half of what MBUSA put into keeping that S550 on the road over six years it would have cost me a new Nissan Versa.
The Audi A8 is a drop-dead gorgeous car inside and out. From pictures its easy to dismiss it as a me-too iteration of Audi's sober design language, but when you walk around one in person it screams quality, simplicity and elegance. It is very imposing from the outside, but quite cozy from the cockpit. Interior materials are phenomenal and Audi did an excellent job of putting money into the places you will touch the most. The switch-gear feels mechanical and robust, the Alcantara bits are right where you want them and the interior lighting is striking. At night, with dozens of little red and blue dots surrounding you, it feels like piloting a jet fighter more than driving a car, and though it is meaningless in terms of how it goes down the road, there is a lot to be said for the sensations a car gives you when behind the wheel. It gets up and goes, and the suspension is quite sporty. I don't know if that's always a plus because I am tempted to push it more than a car of its size and weight probably should be prodded. The LS can dance much more lithely than I expected, but it lets you know when you're asking too much and you tend to back down before you're asked to pay. In terms of electronic wizardry, the two cars are essentially even. Nothing outlandish like the Mercedes' night vision, but plenty to brag about. If I had confidence that it wouldn't be a money-pit to keep on the road, I would have purchased the Audi - no question about it. Sadly, they appear to be a mixed bag. With a CPO warranty, it would have been a great choice, but the difference in price between a 2007 with no coverage and a 2008 with limited coverage is thousands and thousands of dollars. Once these cars are no longer factory-backed, they drop like a stone in cost, but from most of what I've read, you'll pay that back and then some in repairs rather shortly.
The E66 BMW 750Li is a head-scratcher. Pretty much every BMW that you could go to the lot and buy new today would be a fantastic car. In the last few years they have really turned a corner and are putting some of the best vehicles out on the road in terms of styling, features and build quality. That's true about several automakers, actually, but it's a fact that's most significant for BMW because what they were selling in 2007 was pretty disappointing. There are aspects of the 750Li that are quite nice. The seats are very comfortable and the leather is excellent, but outside of that, I really can't say there is much to distinguish this car other than its size. The wood trim looks cheap and the switches are flimsy and coated in a silver paint that you could strip from the whole interior with your fingernail in about an hour. Even a gently-used example looks worked over inside because they just don't seem to age well. iDrive's menus and artwork are right up there with MMI and COMMAND, and I actually find the interface easy enough to use. It looks and operates with a much more "modern" aesthetic than the LS's screen, but it doesn't actually "do" anything more or do it better. The engine sounds great and has enough power, but all of this journalistic nonsense about it being the "sports car" of this segment is absurd. It is just as huge and unwieldy as the others. If it REALLY drove the way the writers want you to believe it does, it would be worth some of the compromises it poses, but it doesn't so don't get hung up on vague qualities like "athleticism" when we're basically talking shades of grey between all of these cars.
You know my pick already, and if you are posting here you probably own an LS so you don't need to be reminded of the things you love about your car, but if anyone has ever had a nagging doubt in their mind about whether or not they are missing something by not having gotten one of the German cars, I can tell you definitively that, outside of whatever brand cache you assign to the other marques, you are not. There is so much to love here that if it were the most expensive of the bunch (it wasn't when new, and doesn't have to be on the secondary market if you shop around), I would still have gone with the Lexus. My girlfriend, who demanded that we take pictures of ourselves next to the Porsche before I sold it because she loved that car so much, could not believe how fast the LS accelerates and how nicely it takes turns. Mind you, I'm not enough of a heretic to make a real comparison here, but her unbiased impression was that this car is plenty enough fun to drive no matter what Car & Driver or Road & Track think. Not a single bit squeaks or rattles inside, even after 73,400 miles and 7 years on the road. The leather looks and smells new and feels nicer to the touch than a pair of lambskin gloves. The Mark Levinson stereo is unreal. It's cliche, but I swear to you all that I have been listening to some of my favorite music on it and am hearing instruments and little embellishments that I never noticed before. The interior design isn't as eye-catching as the Mercedes or Audi, but my father, who adored the A8 and actually looked and sounded genuinely disappointed with me for not buying that car, came with me to test-drive the LS and sat in the passenger seat, unable to articulate any sentiment other than repeating, "this is nice... this is really, really nice... this is a REALLY nice car." I don't like to think that I make decisions based on what others think about them, but in this case it was encouraging to have so much reinforcement from those who know me and who have tangentially participated in this search for my new car.
I want to thank you all for the incredible resource you have built here on Club Lexus. I am really looking forward to participating in the discussions, benefiting from the advice and support and contributing whatever I can to enrich the community. Thank you so much for taking the time to read through my self-indulgent little article here and please feel free to ask any questions you might have about some of the cars I've looked at. I could easily see myself pointing others to the S550 or A8 given the right circumstances so don't worry that my own decision would color my objectivity in advising you. For those of us who own an LS and those who are in the market to buy one, we have a pretty enviable problem in deciding on a car of this caliber. It is mind-boggling to consider just how much car $30,000 can buy these days. I know I personally have felt like a kid in a candy store over the last month!
Take care,
Stephen
I just purchased a very well-cared for 2007 LS460 L and wanted to share my thoughts about the vehicle and my experience in comparison shopping this segment for anyone who may be in the market for a pre-owned luxury sedan.
First of all, I could not be happier with the car. True, I only have a few days behind me, but every time I get into it I discover some new little detail that surprises me and puts a smile on my face. The thoughtfulness that went into designing this car is mind-boggling to me. The speed at which the hand-pulls retract to the headliner, the way the window controls' back-lighting dims for other occupants when the driver's lock is engaged - these are niceties that are either not bothered with by some or never imagined by others.
For a 30-year-old, I have had a fairly spoiled past with cars. My first was a BMW 318is, then I moved to a Saab 9-5 and just prior to the LS I had a Porsche 911 Carrera 4. It's an eclectic group of vehicles, but each spoke to me in a certain way and all had an underlying theme of being tremendous value for what I paid to get into them. The BMW was a steal and made me appreciate the importance of a "just-enough" drive-train and how handling and balance can trump power in putting a smile on your face any day. The Saab was a solid, comfortable cruiser with just enough sporting pretension to still be fun and it offered interior size and amenities in line with a similar-year 5-Series or A6 for a fraction of the cost. The 911 really needs no explanation - it really is everything that people say it is and more. If it had four doors and a usable storage compartment it would still be in my driveway (of course that would be a Panamera, but the bank account isn't quite ready for that, yet).
In moving to the Lexus I was looking for a full-size luxury sedan that would coddle every passenger and still be fun to put the spurs to from time to time. Because of how well these cars hold their value and how poorly their German brethren hold theirs, pricing was basically level between the LS460 L, Mercedes S550, BMW 750Li and Audi A8, assuming excellent condition and relatively low miles. I have driven all of these cars extensively in my search and each has its pros and cons. Having only owned European cars, I admit I have an affinity for them in spite of the usual caveats of frequent repairs and high running costs. I assumed going into this exercise that I would find the LS a compromise - great comfort and the peace of mind that Lexus' well-deserved reputation for quality brings, but too isolated, stiff-collared and dull to be much fun. I'll spoil the ending by telling you that it flipped my expectations upside down, but it is worth sharing my impressions of the other contenders.
The S550 is a very imposing car. It looks big. It is big, but more to the point it feels big. When driving a W221 S-Class, there is a sense of anxiety that you are constantly at risk of meandering into an adjacent lane or that you might misjudge a parking angle and plow into a barrier or some unsuspecting soul's car. The cabin is extremely spacious, which is inviting when you're at a standstill, but a little unnerving at speed. The steering is leaden, and in the 4-Matic version it proceeds with a kind of deliberate heft that brings the pacing of a freight train to mind. It gathers speed quickly and is obviously quite happy rocketing down the interstate in triple-digits, but it doesn't shrink around you. With respect to gee-whiz gadgetry, it ticks all of the appropriate boxes and creates a few of its own. The car I was interested in had the night-vision system that is displayed in the gauge cluster and between that, the striking ambient lighting and the art design that went into the various COMMAND screen images, it's easy to be impressed by the presentation. The latter two features I do sorely miss in the LS, but they add nothing to the actual use of the car. In fact, while I'm on the topic of usability, I have to mention that COMMAND really is as obnoxious and fiddly as the automotive journalists say. It can be conquered, but two minutes with the "dedicated buttons and menus" approach of the LS should make anyone ask, "why bother?" The nail in the coffin for me, though, was the BINDER of warranty repairs that I found in the glove box. I tried to do some quick math to total up what all had been done to the car and it was staggering. Now, 2007 was the first year this car was sold in the United States, but it had been on the market in Europe already for a year by then so I would hope most of the teething pains had been worked out. If I'd had to spend even half of what MBUSA put into keeping that S550 on the road over six years it would have cost me a new Nissan Versa.
The Audi A8 is a drop-dead gorgeous car inside and out. From pictures its easy to dismiss it as a me-too iteration of Audi's sober design language, but when you walk around one in person it screams quality, simplicity and elegance. It is very imposing from the outside, but quite cozy from the cockpit. Interior materials are phenomenal and Audi did an excellent job of putting money into the places you will touch the most. The switch-gear feels mechanical and robust, the Alcantara bits are right where you want them and the interior lighting is striking. At night, with dozens of little red and blue dots surrounding you, it feels like piloting a jet fighter more than driving a car, and though it is meaningless in terms of how it goes down the road, there is a lot to be said for the sensations a car gives you when behind the wheel. It gets up and goes, and the suspension is quite sporty. I don't know if that's always a plus because I am tempted to push it more than a car of its size and weight probably should be prodded. The LS can dance much more lithely than I expected, but it lets you know when you're asking too much and you tend to back down before you're asked to pay. In terms of electronic wizardry, the two cars are essentially even. Nothing outlandish like the Mercedes' night vision, but plenty to brag about. If I had confidence that it wouldn't be a money-pit to keep on the road, I would have purchased the Audi - no question about it. Sadly, they appear to be a mixed bag. With a CPO warranty, it would have been a great choice, but the difference in price between a 2007 with no coverage and a 2008 with limited coverage is thousands and thousands of dollars. Once these cars are no longer factory-backed, they drop like a stone in cost, but from most of what I've read, you'll pay that back and then some in repairs rather shortly.
The E66 BMW 750Li is a head-scratcher. Pretty much every BMW that you could go to the lot and buy new today would be a fantastic car. In the last few years they have really turned a corner and are putting some of the best vehicles out on the road in terms of styling, features and build quality. That's true about several automakers, actually, but it's a fact that's most significant for BMW because what they were selling in 2007 was pretty disappointing. There are aspects of the 750Li that are quite nice. The seats are very comfortable and the leather is excellent, but outside of that, I really can't say there is much to distinguish this car other than its size. The wood trim looks cheap and the switches are flimsy and coated in a silver paint that you could strip from the whole interior with your fingernail in about an hour. Even a gently-used example looks worked over inside because they just don't seem to age well. iDrive's menus and artwork are right up there with MMI and COMMAND, and I actually find the interface easy enough to use. It looks and operates with a much more "modern" aesthetic than the LS's screen, but it doesn't actually "do" anything more or do it better. The engine sounds great and has enough power, but all of this journalistic nonsense about it being the "sports car" of this segment is absurd. It is just as huge and unwieldy as the others. If it REALLY drove the way the writers want you to believe it does, it would be worth some of the compromises it poses, but it doesn't so don't get hung up on vague qualities like "athleticism" when we're basically talking shades of grey between all of these cars.
You know my pick already, and if you are posting here you probably own an LS so you don't need to be reminded of the things you love about your car, but if anyone has ever had a nagging doubt in their mind about whether or not they are missing something by not having gotten one of the German cars, I can tell you definitively that, outside of whatever brand cache you assign to the other marques, you are not. There is so much to love here that if it were the most expensive of the bunch (it wasn't when new, and doesn't have to be on the secondary market if you shop around), I would still have gone with the Lexus. My girlfriend, who demanded that we take pictures of ourselves next to the Porsche before I sold it because she loved that car so much, could not believe how fast the LS accelerates and how nicely it takes turns. Mind you, I'm not enough of a heretic to make a real comparison here, but her unbiased impression was that this car is plenty enough fun to drive no matter what Car & Driver or Road & Track think. Not a single bit squeaks or rattles inside, even after 73,400 miles and 7 years on the road. The leather looks and smells new and feels nicer to the touch than a pair of lambskin gloves. The Mark Levinson stereo is unreal. It's cliche, but I swear to you all that I have been listening to some of my favorite music on it and am hearing instruments and little embellishments that I never noticed before. The interior design isn't as eye-catching as the Mercedes or Audi, but my father, who adored the A8 and actually looked and sounded genuinely disappointed with me for not buying that car, came with me to test-drive the LS and sat in the passenger seat, unable to articulate any sentiment other than repeating, "this is nice... this is really, really nice... this is a REALLY nice car." I don't like to think that I make decisions based on what others think about them, but in this case it was encouraging to have so much reinforcement from those who know me and who have tangentially participated in this search for my new car.
I want to thank you all for the incredible resource you have built here on Club Lexus. I am really looking forward to participating in the discussions, benefiting from the advice and support and contributing whatever I can to enrich the community. Thank you so much for taking the time to read through my self-indulgent little article here and please feel free to ask any questions you might have about some of the cars I've looked at. I could easily see myself pointing others to the S550 or A8 given the right circumstances so don't worry that my own decision would color my objectivity in advising you. For those of us who own an LS and those who are in the market to buy one, we have a pretty enviable problem in deciding on a car of this caliber. It is mind-boggling to consider just how much car $30,000 can buy these days. I know I personally have felt like a kid in a candy store over the last month!
Take care,
Stephen
Last edited by skablaw; 04-26-13 at 10:29 AM.
04-26-13, 10:38 AM
#3
If I did not know better, I would think that your were retained by Lexus to brighten our day.
Welcome to the club and I hope you have many enjoyable experiences with your LS.
Welcome to the club and I hope you have many enjoyable experiences with your LS.
04-26-13, 03:19 PM
#4
Moderator
Welcome to CL, great read and write up!
We have a nice group of 460/600h owners here that you will get to know the more you hang out.
What package did your 460L come with and do you have air suspension?
We have a nice group of 460/600h owners here that you will get to know the more you hang out.
What package did your 460L come with and do you have air suspension?
04-26-13, 09:46 PM
#7
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 months ago, I should have bought a LS 460 too for the reasons you specified. Since my girlfriend just got a used 09 LS 460 AWD I wanted to get something a little different. That was a mistake. Everything you said about the complicated Command system is true. Additionally, the car seems really huge on the road compared to her Lexus.
But oh well, it's done. I'm 2 months into ownership of a 2008 S63 now. Maybe in 4.5 years when my extended 5 year warranty is 6 months away from expiring, I'll sell it and get a 2012 LS 460 Sport
). LOVE the sport model of this car. Not loving the looks of the 2013 models but much prefer the older "front end" of the 2010-2012's. The 2013's are too aggressive looking for me.
Here's what I ended up with...
http://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s6...-garage-o.html
I needed it for a bicycle toter)
But oh well, it's done. I'm 2 months into ownership of a 2008 S63 now. Maybe in 4.5 years when my extended 5 year warranty is 6 months away from expiring, I'll sell it and get a 2012 LS 460 Sport
). LOVE the sport model of this car. Not loving the looks of the 2013 models but much prefer the older "front end" of the 2010-2012's. The 2013's are too aggressive looking for me.Here's what I ended up with...
http://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s6...-garage-o.html
I needed it for a bicycle toter
)
Last edited by stever500; 04-26-13 at 09:49 PM.
Trending Topics
04-27-13, 05:31 PM
#9
That is a great write up, Stephen. At such a relatively young age you have had a lot of great cars to compare and now you own the "best". Welcome to the Lexus fold.
My first Lexus was an SC300 purchased in '92 when that model first came out (about 6 months after the SC400s where hitting the streets). After driving it less than a year I "traded" with my wife (needed a daily commuter). In 2004, my son grabbed it away from her and she had to "settle" for a 3 year old 2001 LS430. I have to say that your view of the 2007 460 paralleled my experience with the LS430 and any one not familiar with these cars sounded like your Dad when riding in the vehicle.
I am "lurking" in this thread (spending most of my time in the SC300 area being influenced for the restore/upgrade I am doing on the returned-from-son SC) and the plan is to acquire an LS460 for the wife and replace the LS430 (although it is still a gorgeous car but she wants to move on).
Good luck with your "new" car and these threads are loads of fun to see all of the modifications and enhancements people share that they have made to their cars.....
My first Lexus was an SC300 purchased in '92 when that model first came out (about 6 months after the SC400s where hitting the streets). After driving it less than a year I "traded" with my wife (needed a daily commuter). In 2004, my son grabbed it away from her and she had to "settle" for a 3 year old 2001 LS430. I have to say that your view of the 2007 460 paralleled my experience with the LS430 and any one not familiar with these cars sounded like your Dad when riding in the vehicle.
I am "lurking" in this thread (spending most of my time in the SC300 area being influenced for the restore/upgrade I am doing on the returned-from-son SC) and the plan is to acquire an LS460 for the wife and replace the LS430 (although it is still a gorgeous car but she wants to move on).
Good luck with your "new" car and these threads are loads of fun to see all of the modifications and enhancements people share that they have made to their cars.....
04-29-13, 02:25 PM
#11
Thanks for taking the time to post such a thoughtful post. Obviously trade-offs are made, but my last M-B, an 86 560 SEL, forced me to sell the vacuum powered, weird over engineered one-drop-at -a-time injected beast and buy my first Lexus, a 94 LS400. Love them to death, and the other night a friend had to take the wheel (don't ask), and he kept saying "This is the most pleasant car to drive that I've ever driven!"
Thanks again for your fine effort.
Thanks again for your fine effort.
05-08-13, 02:17 AM
#12
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I completely agree with your post. The LS 460 is a fantastic vehicle and I would put it up against any of its peers. The build quality and unquestioned reliability are just two of the factors that keep me coming back to Lexus.
05-08-13, 06:21 AM
#13
My first Lexus was 1997 ES300, then traded for 1997 LS400 Coach Edition, sold it and got 2002 SC430. All of these are excellent cars, never had any problems with.
I am looking at this 2008 LS460 with only 23000 miles...
I don't know if I should sell my Sc430 or keep both cars...
I am looking at this 2008 LS460 with only 23000 miles...
I don't know if I should sell my Sc430 or keep both cars...
05-08-13, 06:53 AM
#14
Moderator
My first Lexus was 1997 ES300, then traded for 1997 LS400 Coach Edition, sold it and got 2002 SC430. All of these are excellent cars, never had any problems with.
I am looking at this 2008 LS460 with only 23000 miles...
I don't know if I should sell my Sc430 or keep both cars...
I am looking at this 2008 LS460 with only 23000 miles...
I don't know if I should sell my Sc430 or keep both cars...
06-01-13, 04:09 PM
#15
Lexus Champion
2 months ago, I should have bought a LS 460 too for the reasons you specified. Since my girlfriend just got a used 09 LS 460 AWD I wanted to get something a little different. That was a mistake. Everything you said about the complicated Command system is true. Additionally, the car seems really huge on the road compared to her Lexus.
But oh well, it's done. I'm 2 months into ownership of a 2008 S63 now. Maybe in 4.5 years when my extended 5 year warranty is 6 months away from expiring, I'll sell it and get a 2012 LS 460 Sport). LOVE the sport model of this car. Not loving the looks of the 2013 models but much prefer the older "front end" of the 2010-2012's. The 2013's are too aggressive looking for me.
Here's what I ended up with...
http://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s6...-garage-o.html
I needed it for a bicycle toter)
But oh well, it's done. I'm 2 months into ownership of a 2008 S63 now. Maybe in 4.5 years when my extended 5 year warranty is 6 months away from expiring, I'll sell it and get a 2012 LS 460 Sport
). LOVE the sport model of this car. Not loving the looks of the 2013 models but much prefer the older "front end" of the 2010-2012's. The 2013's are too aggressive looking for me.Here's what I ended up with...
http://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s6...-garage-o.html
I needed it for a bicycle toter
)