usermel

If this was the BMW,Benz,Audi or Jaguar forum and Lexus was a part of the question "Which is better" etc., it would be open season on Lexus. We have been very fair and respectful as far as I can see. We have praised the looks and performance of the other makes and for the most part only gave Lexus the edge based on reliability. Heck, I think the only issue we ALL have with any of the Euro makes is reliability.

The Euro makes ALL look great to me and drive very well. The interiors are great also. My issues with Euro makes are always the same based on me owning or friends owning Euro makes, reliability is a issue.

I been on Benz and BMW and Audi sites and when Lexus is mentioned its like shooting fish in a barrel the way they attack Lexus. They seem to FOCUS on the Toyota connection ALL the time and thats a sticking point for them alot of times. Perception with the Euro makes is that Lexus is a decorated Toyota but, what they fail to mention is that Lexus has great reliability and great pricing etc., and they never speak good about Lexus or its buyers(very seldom they do)! Great question and point RJM! L.G.N.M

rjm

I fully agree with you. I frequent all 3 of the forums as I have owned all of the 3 brands and enjoy nice cars. Your point about Lexus being perceived by those who haven't owned them as a "glorified Toyota" is entirely correct. If I were rating the 3 brands based on my ownership experiences, I would rate them:

1. BMW (Based on driveablility and performance).

2. Lexus (Based on quality and reliability).

3. Mercedes (Mercedes has lost their niche. Mine spent way too much time at the dealership being repaired. And many MB owners simply want the "star" on the hood).

usermel

Yeah, they really have a bandwagon approach to there dislike of Lexus. Kinda a perception based dislike as opposed to facts. Very ironic when I think of the fact ALL the makes are foreign in origin. You would think they were defending Benz and BMW/Audi and Jaguar against Lexus because they 1st four mentioned are domestic makes!!! Not the case at all.

I'll say this much, Lexus needs to address a better exterior styling for the LS model and no matter how many horses or how much less it cost than the Euro brands most wont try Lexus because of the looks. The Benz/BMW/Jaguar/Audi all have distinct looks to them and ALL appeal to young buyers. Lexus wont have issue with older buyers like me staying if they improve the visual of there flagship. Me at 36 going on 37, Im not looking for a change based on a more youthful look by Lexus. That said, I would LOVE to shut up friends with Benzes and BMW's for good. I cant debate them on looks of the cars, Benz and BMW/Audi/Jag do a tremendous job with exterior looks as well as interior.

BMW is a Heck of a driving car and Benz looks great and handles like a dream. When I owned it the feel and drive was RICH and more upscale, I cant deny it. My lady says when she drove it she was always afraid because how much it cost and felt like it cost. I myself can admit, it feels & drives unlike the Lexus and BMW has the same RICH feel/drive to it! Lexus in my opinion should improve with how the car feels. Is the Lexus less than the Benz as far as being a great car? NO,NO,NO!!! That said, Benz and BMW have branded style and prestige and this is what Lexus has neglected to do so far!

I was joked and attacked when I first joined when I pointed out differences between Lexus and Benz in buying experience etc.! I mentioned when I purchased my Benz, they sent me unannounced a gift basket full of expensive items such as champagne and Godiva along with other quality items. I was told to go back to Benz sense I like Godiva so much. It was disrespectful to me to say the least that sense I stated a fact, I was attacked by a member. Felt it was a Lexus dealer employee but, held my tongue anyway. My point when I mentioned it was Benz made me feel like I spent $90,000 and No, a gift basket of champagne and Godiva and other quality items valued at $300 isnt enough to cover $90,000 but, Acura(my lady got her car from there) and Lexus(got 4 cars and not one extra was given to me nor discount till I purchased out of state and got $4,000 of my car) dont yet measure up to Benz/BMW in this way yet. BMW has what I hear great customer service. I think what makes BEnz/BMW buyers stay is what Lexus doesnt offer. The Benz I owned felt like it was bullet proof. Not like a tank but, like a super luxury 5 passenger limo!

Im with Lexus for a couple of reasons that are valuable to me at 36 and have been since I turned 30! One reason is reliability(sound like broken record I say it so much about Lexus,ahahahaha) and the second reason is its not a sport performance based car nor to loud, its quiet! The 3rd is the fact that I have owned this car for years now and Im not tired of it yet, its timeless. Despite the lack of looks, Lexus is like the right woman for a man or the right man for a woman.

Sometimes whats best for us is just right, not flashy or to good looking and Lexus looks good and isnt flashy at all, just reliable and instead of being a 10 in looks and performance, Lexus is consistent in all categories! I LOVE my Lexus, well as much as a human can actually love a thing anyway, LOVE is best given to humans and other living things! HAHAHAHA! L.G.N.M

Johnny

Looks are subjective, and it's hard to buy your assertion when a significant number of Lexus's LS customers would disagree wholeheartedly with you. I think the LS's exterior design is the most advanced of all the marques you mentioned. They have shed the bland look that they had previously, and leapfrogged ahead of the competition. I strongly doubt making inroads into Europe is high on their list of priorities. European clients are fickle, stodgy and resist change for a myriad of reasons, least of which is the regional protectionism that reigns supreme there. Lexus has its hands full in North America and Asia, areas that European marques are salivating at Lexus's superior advantage.

Tee

I for one think the 460 styling is ahead of the competition and I can’t wait to see the next gen, things I notice from the euro brand loyalist & fanboys is they defend those brands even when they are treated like crap by some dealers. The real kicker is dropping 80-100K on them only for the car to spend more time in the dealers garage than their own, the issue Lexus has is the disadvantage of not having close to an100 yr old heritage. The Euro brands have been around forever and have creation and inspired some great cars, I still love their creativity, performance and beautiful styling but not their reliability. We can go back in forth until infinity over this it all remains subjective and it comes down to personal preference, although we all have our opinions on the subject at least we have tough choice to make on what to own than not having it.

BTW Car & Driver hates Lexus so who cares what they think, CL has always been fair (what I have seen) when members post these "Which one..." theeads unlike the other forums.

LexFather

I think all the brands at this stage have good styling. I am actually shocked at how much more interesting the LS looks compared to past models. It is a good looking vehicle. Not sure why anyone would expect the LS to completely break a successful mold. These buyer prefers conservative, understated good looks.

I think you can stop right there at that exaggeration. Clearly Lexus has done a great job with satisfying target buyers who want traditional non sport luxury, then expanded to those that want a hybrid and now some more sport with the new Sport model which has gotten very good reviews.

There is nothing wrong with a comfy drive and people really need to stop acting like sport is superior on the basis of "just because".

rominl

iTrader: (4)

especially a car in this segment imho. that's why i won't choose 7 series at all.

rjm

I sold my last Lexus because driving it was so boring. A nice ride but BORING. A friend of mine called it "like driving a casket, quiet and isolated." When I test-drove the new '09 LS460 the first thing the salesman said to me was "This car drives just like a BMW." I think he must have seen me drive up in a BMW. Of course his comment was pure baloney. Any similarity in ride between the LS460 and a BMW was non-existent. I still have an RX-300 with over 100,000 miles on it. It's a great utility vehicle, and very reliable, but is still boring to drive. If you really enjoy DRIVING, you need to drive a BMW on a long trip, preferably on twisting, winding roads.

LexFather

Which is fine. Priorities change and/or people desire different things in a vehicle. If all vehicles drove the same we would complain they all drive the same.

Lexus realized a few years ago they had to find a way to keep loyal customers happy and all attract/keep new ones who desire more sport. Thus the LS sport is an option and not the standard package LS. The fact is most LS buyers want a plush "boring" ride.

I do agree a 7 series for instance has more feedback to drive. Then you realize they are mostly driven just like the LS. Slow, speed limit, not taking corners at illegal speeds and not at the track. To the end of the big/sport spectrum you have cars like the S65 and Alpina B7 etc which do an amazing job of adding sport to 4500/5000 lbs sedans the size of a small home. On one hand its fantastic. On the other hand its not logical at all.

Today we now have the new XJ, Quattroporte and Panamera who try to blend big and sport together and it appeals to some people. Funny but Clarkson had an editorial in Top Gear Mag where in summary he pretty much disliked all new vehicles b/c
-they all tried to be sporty
-they all tried to drive like Porsches
-they all have big wheels/little tires
-they all have harsh suspsensions

And he simply asked "where did all the nice cushy, comfy cars go"?

Personally I love them all. Big and Cushy and Big and Sporty. I am not going to diss big and sporty cars for not being logical and I'm not going to diss big and boring for being bland.

We are to be fortunate enough to have so many choices to pick from (and a lucky few that own one/many).

ikeb

here is my 2 cents.

1) the best looking car is the new Jag XJ and it drives very well (sporty yet cushy)
2) Most reliable LS 460

Too me - BMW and Mercedes are out of the question because of reliability. I don't trust the Jag XJ for quality of build (i've had 3 jags XJs).

I'm at the point in my live that i "don't need no problems". LS is good looking and reliable. I repeat - reliable.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

The ones I haven't been in is an A8 and Jag. At least to my backside, this whole grouping is excellent in their own respects. Then it turns to a matter of subjective preferences to which it becomes difficult to say "this one is better than that one."

What I enjoy at a different level is the samples still on the roads today. Plenty of first gen LS's can still be seen in So. Cal. That speaks well of the car and the thought that went into them to have such longevity. The 460 does well in this continuing saga.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

and the fact is a lot of people in this segment, they actually prefer to have a ride that's quiet and comfortable, one that they can sit in nicely through all the traffic. i know quite a few owners like this.

in fact, in every segment there are these owners. and you just reinforced what mike and i have said

ikeb

this is the best part of the ls460 - the ride - quiet and comfortable (dam -it is comfortable and smooth). I admit - i have a 350z for the sporty ride, when i want it in the summer and on weekends.

my ls460 is actually more cushy than any of my jags were.

Seven07

I own a Bmw 750li and I love it. Reliability wise... The first two months I owned it were hell. I thought I was going to sell it. But after all the electronic problems were sorted out (under warranty so it cost me $0), it's been great. I love how it handles, especially at high speed. Comfort wise, I don't think it's rough at all. It feels very smooth to me. I also own a GS300 and hat thing is rough! I know I shouldn't compare the two, but I would not take that car on a road trip again. I took it to Vegas a couple of weeks ago and I hated it. It felt so unsafe going 90 mph.

OP, I would drive all three before making the decision. But to me, if you can afford buying extended warranty, go for BMW. If you want a nice car for a cheaper price go for Lexus. DONNOT buy Mercedes. I don't like the look nor how it handles nor the reliability.

Here's a pic of an LS at the same angle:

adammb

I love the styling of the newer LS. There is not a car on the road that I would want to exchange for it at any price point and still having 4 doors. A big thing for me was the length in the cabin. Being 6'5" and still having plenty of room behind me was a huge selling point and the ride is excellent. It is not a sports car and I am glad it is not. I really dont like the styling of the BMW or Merc interiors. They dont have the natural feeling of the LS. I went on MB's website and spending double what a LS costs still doesnt give me the options I want in a car.

There is no other brand out there I would prefer over a Lexus unless I was looking for a sports car although the LF-A may take care of that as well. Still dont know if I'll fit in it.

Of course to each their own.